The Junior College Debate

[warthog-driver]

Some background

http://www.lostlettermen.com/week-long-series-junior-college-transfers-part-i-jerry-tarkanian-builds-juco-army-at-long-beach-state-unlv/

Throughout the week, we’ll be taking a look at junior college transfers and how they’ve become such a huge part of college basketball. Many high school athletes don’t reach the NCAA’s academic standards or have character issues that land them at JuCos to start their college careers.

[MU82]

Some JUCO kids are jerks who never fit in at a four-year school. Some JUCO kids are good people who, for whatever reason, weren't quite ready for a four-year school.

Kinda like non-JUCO humans: Some are jerks, some are humans, some are in between. Hate these "debates" that try to come to some kind of one-size-fits-all conclusion.

Wake me when this debate is over.

[warthog-driver]

As pointed out, Al always used Jucos to round out or complete a roster. There is nothing wrong with this approach. I cannot understand why some look down on or fear Jucos.

[bilsu]

I do not mind juco's. Part of recruiting is the recruiter elimitating players that do not fit in at the univeristy, whether they are high schoolers, prep schoolers, transfers or juco's.

[GGGG]

Looking down on JUCOs is dumb.  First of all, Marquette accepts junior college transfers amongst its "regular" student body because they have shown they can do work.

But more importantly, non-qualifiers who go JUCO (like Jae and Buycks), have to earn associate degrees before they are allowed to play college basketball.  Say what you want, but earning an associate degree for some of these kids is an accomplishment - oftentimes more than anyone in their family has accomplished.  Frankly, it is more than some kids who go directly to four year schools have accomplished in two years.

Finally, have any of our non-qualifying JUCO transfers been a problem off the court?  Nope.

That avenue should never be cut-off as a place where MU can recruit.

[warthog-driver]

Finally, have any of our non-qualifying JUCO transfers been a problem off the court?  Nope.

Hang on. I read here that DJO was wielding a beer bottle and smashing heads at Apartment 720.

[MarsupialMadness]

Looking down on JUCOs is dumb.  First of all, Marquette accepts junior college transfers amongst its "regular" student body because they have shown they can do work.

But more importantly, non-qualifiers who go JUCO (like Jae and Buycks), have to earn associate degrees before they are allowed to play college basketball.  Say what you want, but earning an associate degree for some of these kids is an accomplishment - oftentimes more than anyone in their family has accomplished.  Frankly, it is more than some kids who go directly to four year schools have accomplished in two years.

Finally, have any of our non-qualifying JUCO transfers been a problem off the court?  Nope.

That avenue should never be cut-off as a place where MU can recruit.

Agreed.  JUCO's are a big part of the regular education population.  Tons of kids go to a 2-year junior college because they aren't ready for a 4 year university... for a number of different reasons, i.e. behavior issues, financial situation, academic struggles, etc.

Why would we look down on kids who do that with basketball? 

It's just another avenue for someone to progress his life, all the more power to him. 

[Dawson Rental]

Looking down on JUCOs is dumb.  First of all, Marquette accepts junior college transfers amongst its "regular" student body because they have shown they can do work.

But more importantly, non-qualifiers who go JUCO (like Jae and Buycks), have to earn associate degrees before they are allowed to play college basketball.  Say what you want, but earning an associate degree for some of these kids is an accomplishment - oftentimes more than anyone in their family has accomplished.  Frankly, it is more than some kids who go directly to four year schools have accomplished in two years.

Finally, have any of our non-qualifying JUCO transfers been a problem off the court?  Nope.

That avenue should never be cut-off as a place where MU can recruit.

I really don't think that Jae was a non-qualifier coming out of HS.  I thought his problem was more due to the fact that he concentrated on football in HS until he broke his hand playing quarterback, so he still needed to develop as a b-ball player before he could get schools interested.

[GGGG]

I really don't think that Jae was a non-qualifier coming out of HS.  I thought his problem was more due to the fact that he concentrated on football in HS until he broke his hand playing quarterback, so he still needed to develop as a b-ball player before he could get schools interested.

No he needed to graduate before he could play here.  He did two year's worth of work in one year in order to do so.

[GGGG]

Hang on. I read here that DJO was wielding a beer bottle and smashing heads at Apartment 720.

He qualified out of high school...it was delayed due to a Clearinghouse issue.

[Dawson Rental]

No he needed to graduate before he could play here.  He did two year's worth of work in one year in order to do so.

I believe that that was because the first JUCO that he went to was not accredited, so none of his first year JUCO course work could be transferred to a four year school, or probably put towards an associates degree at Howard Community college for that matter.

Modification:  I also see that Jae is not listed at all in ESPN's database for 2008 recruits, so evidently he had a low profile for a basketball recruit as a HS senior.

I'm also pretty sure that if someone plays two years of JUCO ball, he can't play NCAA Division I without first getting an associates degree.

[lab_warrior]

Some JUCO kids are jerks who never fit in at a four-year school. Some JUCO kids are good people who, for whatever reason, weren't quite ready for a four-year school.

Kinda like non-JUCO humans: Some are jerks, some are humans, some are in between. Hate these "debates" that try to come to some kind of one-size-fits-all conclusion.

Wake me when this debate is over.

+1

The list of JUCOs we've had with Buzz:  Fulce, Butler, DJO, Jae, Buycks.  Solid citizens all, and solid MU basketball representatives.  No problems with JUCOs if they're like the dudes in that list.

[Lennys Tap]

+1

The list of JUCOs we've had with Buzz:  Fulce, Butler, DJO, Jae, Buycks.  Solid citizens all, and solid MU basketball representatives.  No problems with JUCOs if they're like the dudes in that list.

As opposed to some of our high school, 4 year eligible athletes of the past decade: Amoroso, Mortenson, Manchild Mathews, Hazel, etc. Maybe MU should EXCLUSIVELY recruit non traditional Jucos.

[GGGG]

I believe that that was because the first JUCO that he went to was not accredited, so none of his first year JUCO course work could be transferred to a four year school, or probably put towards an associates degree at Howard Community college for that matter.

Modification:  I also see that Jae is not listed at all in ESPN's database for 2008 recruits, so evidently he had a low profile for a basketball recruit as a HS senior.

I'm also pretty sure that if someone plays two years of JUCO ball, he can't play NCAA Division I without first getting an associates degree.

If he is a full academic qualifier, he would not need the associates degree.  That is my understanding.

[warthog-driver]

As opposed to some of our high school, 4 year eligible athletes of the past decade: Amoroso, Mortenson, Manchild Mathews, Hazel, etc. Maybe MU should EXCLUSIVELY recruit non traditional Jucos.

I never heard the rest of the story on some of these guys. Were Amo & Mortenson gamblers? Was Hazel drugs? And what happened with The Manchild?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I never heard the rest of the story on some of these guys. Were Amo & Mortenson gamblers? Was Hazel drugs? And what happened with The Manchild?

Hazel double dipped on someone's ATM card. Ammo was nuts and liked poker. Mort was more like Pete rose.

[🏀]

Hazel double dipped on someone's ATM card. Ammo was nuts and liked poker. Mort was more like Pete rose.

Well, Amo didn't find dabbling in the Pete Rose either.

[warthog-driver]

Well, Amo didn't find dabbling in the Pete Rose either.

He found inspiration in The Herb?

[🏀]

He found inspiration in The Herb?

[warthog-driver]

Got it. Amo never really bulked up though, did he?

[🏀]

Got it. Amo never really bulked up though, did he?

Neither did Ryan Braun or Mortensen. However, I think Matt works at a Abercrombie & Fitch in Utah, so it worked out for him.

[warthog-driver]

Neither did Ryan Braun or Mortensen. However, I think Matt works at a Abercrombie & Fitch in Utah, so it worked out for him.

Has Matt done his Mission yet? Wonder if they'll send him to Vegas. Or Monaco?

[Bocephys]

Hazel double dipped on someone's ATM card. Ammo was nuts and liked poker. Mort was more like Pete rose.

I played poker with Ammo a few times actually, he wasn't very good.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Has Matt done his Mission yet? Wonder if they'll send him to Vegas. Or Monaco?

Don't bet on it.

[Lennys Tap]

And what happened with The Manchild?

Manchild, to put it kindly, was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He allegedly beat the snot out of one of our assistant coaches and was soon after shown the door.