Rayvonte Rice interested in MU

[bamamarquettefan]

Thanks again for great information.  One question though.  He's only been out of HS for two years, so how does he have three numbers?  Could the 957 be a projected number for his freshman year based on his HS performance?

Great catch!  That's one reason I put everyone in a database other people could see things.

Yes, if you click on it and look to the year column the years are 2011, 2012 and 2013, so the third figure was the 2013 projection.

So actually in 2012, he was ranked 490th, just 14 spots ahead of Hood at 504th, and since the jump from freshman to sophomore is usually be far the biggest, Hood would be pretty solidly the best player from all the possible transfers that have been discussed - though I believe our assumption is still that he is going to Lville.  Rice looks like the second best, and since you caught my mistake obviously he would be with us for two years instead of one after redshirting next year.  thanks for the catch.

http://www.chromatic.us/ball.html

[CTWarrior]

He is NBA prospect today, but would be foolish to try it. If he has solid year next year I have no doubt he is gone. If he happened to be in hot water at MU I could see him testing the waters. He has very big upside and will be paid to play ball when college career is over.

I just don't get this.  As a 6-3 kid and not a 7-3 kid, one would think a prerequisite for the NBA would be the ability to, you know, play basketball well.  He is very athletic.  He has no PG skills that translate to the NBA, is not an adept ball handler, passer, scorer or shooter.  He is a plus defender at the college level, but nothing like a lock down defender.  What on Earth is it about his game that makes people think he is an NBA player?  That's he a good rebounder for a 6-3 guy?  I agree he improved a lot this year, but only from wretched to not good.  We watched McNeal here for 4 years and not get much NBA interest and Blue is not remotely near the ballplayer McNeal was.  NBA after next season?  You gotta be kidding!

[esotericmindguy]

I just don't get this.  As a 6-3 kid and not a 7-3 kid, one would think a prerequisite for the NBA would be the ability to, you know, play basketball well.  He is very athletic.  He has no PG skills that translate to the NBA, is not an adept ball handler, passer, scorer or shooter.  He is a plus defender at the college level, but nothing like a lock down defender.  What on Earth is it about his game that makes people think he is an NBA player?  That's he a good rebounder for a 6-3 guy?  I agree he improved a lot this year, but only from wretched to not good.  We watched McNeal here for 4 years and not get much NBA interest and Blue is not remotely near the ballplayer McNeal was.  NBA after next season?  You gotta be kidding!

It's no use reasoning with the Blue apologists.

[Badgerhater]

NBA prospects are all about potential and how that potential fits within the needs of a particular team.  Can the guy expand his abilities at the next level?

McNeal at Marquette got everything out of his limited physical talent -- NBA scouts rightfully saw that he had very little room left for growth.  He is talented enough to play in the NBA, but his potential to fit within the needs of a particular team are low because there are lots of guys with more potential than him who can score.

Meanwhile, we could see that Wesley Mathews had more physical tools and potential than Jerel McNeal -- he just needed time and system to put everything together.

Vander does have more potential upside athletically than Jerel.  Jerel was certainly the better basketball player of the two after two years, but you could see that Jerel's improvement primarily was going to come from experience, not from putting together all the parts of his natural ability.  One thing to remember with any view of McNeal is that the Three Amigos did what they did because they had no real talent around them except for Novak for one year and Lazar for three.  McNeal would have gotten Todd Mayo minutes if he was a frosh on last season's team.

Vander is still very raw, but we saw this year that with regard to team basketball and defensive basketball that the game slowed for him this year and he operated at a high level in those aspects of the game.   Mathews was never the go-to scorer, but he did every little needed by the team to win.  If Vander is to make money at the next level, he needs to emulate that approach, not pouring in points.

The question does remain of how will he continue to develop, but I think we can all agree that he has the potential to put it all together.  If he can put in an efficient 14 a game next year, MU will be a very very good team.   If he averages a very inefficient 18 a game, MU will suck.

UPDATE:  I am not saying Vander will be Wesley.  I am simply using Wesley within the comparison of Vander to McNeal.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

I just don't get this.  As a 6-3 kid and not a 7-3 kid, one would think a prerequisite for the NBA would be the ability to, you know, play basketball well.  He is very athletic.  He has no PG skills that translate to the NBA, is not an adept ball handler, passer, scorer or shooter.  He is a plus defender at the college level, but nothing like a lock down defender.  What on Earth is it about his game that makes people think he is an NBA player?  That's he a good rebounder for a 6-3 guy?  I agree he improved a lot this year, but only from wretched to not good.  We watched McNeal here for 4 years and not get much NBA interest and Blue is not remotely near the ballplayer McNeal was.  NBA after next season?  You gotta be kidding!

The truth?  It's because he was rated so highly out of HS.  Had Vander been more appropriately ranked around 135 there wouldn't be any NBA talk.  NONE.  Instead, he was erroneously ranked in the 35 range and many are still caught up in that number and are blind to what they have seen with their own eyes for TWO YEARS!

He has a lot of potential because of his athleticism,  but so do a lot of guys. The main problem is he doesn't seem to have "touch" from outside,  inside,  and everywhere in between.  He misses a lot of close shots that good players hit.  In his final 2 games he hit 2-13 shots and 5-22 TOTAL in the NCAA.  Unfortunately,  that was not an aberration...0-7 vs NSU...4-14 vs. UW...1-4 vs. LSU...0-6 vs. UWM...1-7 vs. Vandy...0-3 vs. GU...0-5 vs. UCONN...2-10 vs. RU...

How much better would have DJ been had he found his "touch?"  Or Carlton Christian or Karon Bradley or any other athletic freak?  The truth is "touch" is one of the hardest things to improve.  The good-to-great ones are born with it.  Vander was not born with it.

You can still get in the NBA without good "touch,"  but there are also other issues.  At this point,  he is unable to play PG even at the NCAA level.  He is a TO MACHINE!  He may get there by senior year,  but probably won't have much for the scouts to evaluate on.  So,  he would likely get consideration on his ability at SG and he only has average length there.  Scouts don't like average sized SG's that can't SHOOT!  

Now that's not to say I don't like Vander or think he isn't an asset.  I do.  I just think NBA is a LOOOOONG shot and those that don't think that are IMO biased by his WAY overvalued HS rankings.

[MuMark]

Wes could shoot....to this point Vander has not proven that he can.


Until that changes all the potential in the world means nothing.

[THEultimateWARRIOR]

The athletic ability is there for Vander. He was the most improved player this year and with another off season working with Buzz he could be scary good. He was a sophomore last year guys we have to remember that. Yea he was overrated out of highschool but that is no indication that he wont be successful at the next level. All he needs is one break out year. If he gets his spot up jumper down and raises his 3 point percentage where would the flaw in his game be? If he develops these tools to his game he will naturally be able to drive the lane better and not get stuffed like we saw this year. With Buzz being able to work with him all summer I see him making a dramatic leap on the stat sheet.

[ecompt]

The athletic ability is there for Vander. He was the most improved player this year and with another off season working with Buzz he could be scary good. He was a sophomore last year guys we have to remember that. Yea he was overrated out of highschool but that is no indication that he wont be successful at the next level. All he needs is one break out year. If he gets his spot up jumper down and raises his 3 point percentage where would the flaw in his game be? If he develops these tools to his game he will naturally be able to drive the lane better and not get stuffed like we saw this year. With Buzz being able to work with him all summer I see him making a dramatic leap on the stat sheet.

Vander is a tremendous athlete. I just don't know if that makes him a tremendous basketball player. I think he would have to really, really dedicate himself to becoming better before scouts would consider him ready for the next level.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

Is it possible that many people may think (subconsciously) it's easier to get in the NBA right now because there has been a recent pipeline?  I think that's highly possible.  It's MF'N HARD to make it to the show!

 I think if you swapped out the current pipeline with when MU didn't send a guy for 10 years,  that there would be a much higher level of doubt.

There are SUPER talented guys EVERY year that don't make it.  Hell,  Wes barely got his chance.....didn't EVEN get drafted!  I highly doubt Vander will be nearly as good as Wes was his senior year...

[mu03eng]

I'm betting you will see Vander move over to the point the next two years.  He has definitely had flashes of capability at that position in IMHO, but wildly inconsistent.  Plus there seems to be a jam of talent at the 2/3 over the next couple of years so it makes sense.  He'll back up Junior this next season and be the lead his senior year while Duane gets up to speed.  Plus physically he makes more sense at the 1 than 2 at the next level.

I do think he has the ability to play in the NBA.  As someone said he had the biggest leap between seasons of anyone last year, assuming he at least does that again means he will really be something next season. 

[brewcity77]

As far as the Vander debate...I get the impression that everyone is on the same page, but arguing it pretty much for the sake of it. Two points I see:

1) Vander has NBA-level athleticism, which is why some see him playing in the NBA.
2) Vander does not have NBA-level skills, which is why some do not see him playing in the NBA.

Whether he gets there or not, I think everyone would agree the raw ability is there, but the necessary skill development is not. If he tried to go now, he probably wouldn't get drafted. If he could reliably finish at the rim, consistently hit the 12-15 foot jumper, and be a 30% or better 3-point shooter, he would have a decent shot at getting drafted. So what it really comes down to is that he is not a NBA player yet, but it's not impossible that, given progress over the next two years, he could become one.

Just curious if anyone disagrees with that.

[Lennys Tap]

As far as the Vander debate...I get the impression that everyone is on the same page, but arguing it pretty much for the sake of it. Two points I see:

1) Vander has NBA-level athleticism, which is why some see him playing in the NBA.
2) Vander does not have NBA-level skills, which is why some do not see him playing in the NBA.

Whether he gets there or not, I think everyone would agree the raw ability is there, but the necessary skill development is not. If he tried to go now, he probably wouldn't get drafted. If he could reliably finish at the rim, consistently hit the 12-15 foot jumper, and be a 30% or better 3-point shooter, he would have a decent shot at getting drafted. So what it really comes down to is that he is not a NBA player yet, but it's not impossible that, given progress over the next two years, he could become one.

Just curious if anyone disagrees with that.

This sums up where Vander is today very well. Also agree with mu03eng that if Vander can tighten up his handle he has a future at the point.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

This sums up where Vander is today very well. Also agree with mu03eng that if Vander can tighten up his handle he has a future at the point.

AND decision-making,  but I agree his best potential for MU and the NBA is at PG.  He has a long way to go,  however,  I think he can do it if Buzz sticks with him through the growing pains.  I'm sure Buzz is well aware that there are only 2 PG's on board so far for 2013 & 2014,  so Vander is probably already in the plans there......unless he views TJT or Mayo better in those minutes.

Brew,  no disagreement from me.  Nicely put.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This sums up where Vander is today very well. Also agree with mu03eng that if Vander can tighten up his handle he has a future at the point.

I agree completely.

I don't think he'll ever be a natural PG (like Travis), but his quickness with the ball and decent passing ability make him tough to guard up top in a 1-4 set. Plus, a penetrating PG doesn't need to shoot a lot of 3pters to be effective.

Vander has a ton of potential, and just needs to get little better at everything.

If he can be a serviceable shooter, and get stronger around the rim, I think he's an all-conf. player, especially from the PG spot.

[Goose]

I think the frustrating part for everyone is that all see something special in Vander. Everyone here a different slant on his skill set but most agree he has high upside potential. IMO he is a PG and his ability to get to rim his greatest strength. My biggest frustration is at the rim he always makes it harder than needed. My wife bitches about him every game and she only notices the miss, not the unreal ability to get where he should be at on the court. In addition, he can dish the ball and at higher level better guys to dish to.

[CTWarrior]

Whether he gets there or not, I think everyone would agree the raw ability is there, but the necessary skill development is not.

I think it depends on your definition of ability.  Quickness and jumping are certainly abilities and Vander has them in spades.  But hand-eye coordination is an ability, too.  So is being able to see the floor and how a play will develop.  I think ball handling is an ability and shooting too.  I don't agree that given athleticism all you have to do is work really hard and you'll get good enough at those other things to play in the NBA, where you probably need to be one of the best 500 or so players in the world.  Vander has been playing basketball all his life and hasn't developed those tools yet.  I don't know that we can take it for granted that he will suddenly get good at them in the next two just because Buzz is coaching him.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Vander has been playing basketball all his life and hasn't developed those tools yet.  I don't know that we can take it for granted that he will suddenly get good at them in the next two just because Buzz is coaching him.

This is a great point. There are a lot of freaky athletes who coaches drool over who are never that good at basketball.

However, on the flip side, Vander is having to refine his skills now simply because he can't out-athletic guys anymore. In this scenario, it is plausible/possible that he could get better as he learns the finer points of the game.

It would actually help him to learn to slow down. Wade was the best I've ever seen at going slow and then bursting when he needed it. Changing speeds is probably more important than top end speed.

From rim to rim, vander can fly... but that doesn't mean the ball is going in the hoop. Needs more refinement.

[NickelDimer]

I hear what a lot of you are saying about potential, but Vander hasn't even shown the ability to finish at point blank range.  Sorry, but unless that drastically improves his physical gifts/athleticism/potential will not get him drafted.  No chance.

[Hoopaloop]

Are there any transfers out there who don't have an interest in MU and we don't want also.

     All these players, so few (if any) openings for them.  Unless, that is, unless we do some creaning.  Looks like that is going to happen.  Will it be 1, 2, 3? 

[Dawson Rental]

     All these players, so few (if any) openings for them.  Unless, that is, unless we do some creaning.  Looks like that is going to happen.  Will it be 1, 2, 3? 

Hiroshima II, baby!

[Avenue Commons]

Everyone laughs at Vander but he is NBA talent.

True.

[🏀]

Appears to be heading to Illinois.

[mr.MUskie]

Appears to be heading to Illinois.

CHAMPAIGN - Rayvonte Rice is returning to his hometown.

Rice, the former Centennial star and the leading scorer in C-U boys basketball history, committed to Illinois this morning, he said today. The 6-foot-4, 235-pound guard is transferring after two seasons at Drake.

"With a new coach (at Illinois, John Groce) I just see it as a new opportunity. It's a fresh start for me," Rice said by phone from Des Moines. "And he recruited me at Ohio so I knew him."

Rice said he chose Illinois over Xavier. He was initially scheduled to visit Marquette this coming weekend but called coach Buzz Williams and canceled the visit. Memphis was also in the mix.

Rice would be eligible for the 2013-14 season after sitting out next season due to NCAA transfer rules. He has two seasons of eligibility remaining.

"I don't mind (sitting out one season)," he said. "I think it will give me a chance to get better and work on what I need to work on."

As a sophomore at Drake, he averaged 16.5 points and 5.7 rebounds and was the third-leading scorer in the Missouri Valley Conference.

Rice was named the 2010 News-Gazette State Player of the Year. He remains the leading scorer in Champaign-Urbana boys basketball history and averaged 23.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists and 2.9 steals as a senior at Centennial. He holds the school's single-season records for points (814) and the career records in scoring (1,810 points).

"I went to all the games (at Illinois) when I was younger," said Rice, who grew up in Champaign.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Further cementing the Lockett pick up.