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Author Topic: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune  (Read 9055 times)

MisterJaylenBrownMU

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Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« on: June 07, 2007, 11:47:15 AM »
"Jerry Sichting, who served on the Timberwolves coaching staff under Flip Saunders, will return to coach on Wittman's staff. Sichting served as a college assistant at Marquette last year.

Wittman is keeping two members of last year's staff, Bob Ociepka and Rex Kalamian, and will add one other coach. "

http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1230351.html

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 12:51:37 PM »
Here's another one Crean ran off the program! ::)

The Lens

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 01:05:42 PM »
I'm guessing by you smiley face that you're being sarcastic.  So does that mean you think that having assistants 1 and done is good for the program?  I ask this question seriously. 

I think you could say yes, that TC learns things from each person that comes thru.

&

I think you could say no, a consistent staff helps build continuity.  Strengthens the message, reinforces the tradition.

Personally I fall in the latter camp.  I am very pleased that Coach Rab continues to stay here.  If he were by Crean's side for 5-10 more years I see that only as a positive.
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Harrison

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 01:17:17 PM »
I do not think losing one assistant is a bad thing for the program, even if you lose one every year.  Same with transfers.  Problem with Crean, is there for a while he was lsoing more than 1 at a time. And a number of assistants were leaving for lesser or lateral jobs and it was clear they were no fan of Crean's style.  1 a year or so will not hurt the program, and Sichting did not participate on the recruiting trail anyway so no fall off there.  Buckley steps in no problem.

muarmy81

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 01:22:48 PM »
I agree, if they're leaving for better jobs it has to be seen as a compliment because that means you have quality personnel on your staff but if they leave for a lateral or worse job then there's probably something else going on.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 03:49:29 PM »
I'm guessing by you smiley face that you're being sarcastic.  So does that mean you think that having assistants 1 and done is good for the program?  I ask this question seriously. 

I think you could say yes, that TC learns things from each person that comes thru.

&

I think you could say no, a consistent staff helps build continuity.  Strengthens the message, reinforces the tradition.

Personally I fall in the latter camp.  I am very pleased that Coach Rab continues to stay here.  If he were by Crean's side for 5-10 more years I see that only as a positive.

I would love it if we had assistants stay longer... but when a guy leaves for an NBA job, you can't hold that against Coach Crean.

A lot of people tend to blame Crean for the coaching turnover... obviously he is the head coach, so he is accountable... but when assistants are leaving for better jobs I don't think that means coach Crean is running them out of here like some people like to imply.


herboturbo

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2007, 05:17:20 PM »
And a number of assistants were leaving for lesser or lateral jobs and it was clear they were no fan of Crean's style. 


I'm sorry but that is flat out untrue revisionist history
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Murffieus

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2007, 07:57:26 AM »
If Sichting was on my staff to work on developing people and couldn't correct DJ's shooting form one iota to make him at least an average shooter----I'd have run him off too!

What good wwas he?

ecompt

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2007, 09:05:55 AM »
Murff, you don't know (and neither do I) how many hours any member of MU's coaching staff worked with DJ to get him to improve his form. It could have been hundreds of hours. You make everything sound so easy. I'm sure a few hours with you and Shaq would be a 90 percent free-throw shooter. If you were a hitting coach you'd probably have the White Sox all hitting .325 instead of .225. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2007, 09:16:41 AM »
I agree with ecompt here. There are certain basket-attacking types, such as Wade and Jordan (a couple of high profile examples!) who appear to be horrible shooters based on their percentage from beyond 15 feet. However, when you watch them with the naked eye, you can see in form and rhythm that they have the ability to shoot the basketball effectively. Early in his career, Jordan was not a great shooter, but became a very decent shooter as he got older (his career shooting percentage was over 50 percent before he returned with the Wizards, by the way) and Wade is clearly improved. Pippen was the same way.

With James, I don't see that ability at all. Ecompt uses Shaq as an example in jest, but I think it's an apt comparison. Shaq does not have the ability, for whatever reason, to shoot the basketball. I don't think James does, either. His situation is not nearly as dire as Shaq's, but looking at him shoot -- some wide right, some left, some long, some short -- leads me to believe that Sichting could have worked with him day and night (which he probably has) and he's still going to be a great athlete with no ability to shoot. With that glaring deficiency, he would have had to display uncanny ball-handling ability and a knack for getting others involved. Does anybody think that describes his game? I don't

Harrison

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2007, 10:12:07 AM »
And a number of assistants were leaving for lesser or lateral jobs and it was clear they were no fan of Crean's style. 



I'm sorry but that is flat out untrue revisionist history

Sorry got a couple buddies very connected with Milwaukee hoops. 

Pannagio and Strohm?  Are they revisionist history? Strohm left with no job at all .

Coobeys Oil Depot

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2007, 10:43:26 AM »
And a number of assistants were leaving for lesser or lateral jobs and it was clear they were no fan of Crean's style. 



I'm sorry but that is flat out untrue revisionist history

Sorry got a couple buddies very connected with Milwaukee hoops. 

Pannagio and Strohm?  Are they revisionist history? Strohm left with no job at all .

You assert that a "number" of assistants left for lower level positions but that's only two (and Pannagio was a step up careerwise). There's no question that a couple guys didn't work out. Just as with any other work setting there will be personality issues. Most of the ones who have left have moved up in rank: Buckley, Horn, K, Wardle, Townsend, Prileau (sp?). Pannagio and Sichting were always going to be quickie in and outs regardless of personality compatability (Sichting being friends with Crean and, according to you, Pannagio not so much) because of their professional basketball backgrounds. There were problems with Strohm but it seems that may not be under Crean's program alone. Personally, Coach Strohm is someone I always liked and I think the Berkowitz situation put the final nail in the coffin.

I think it's the same with player transfers. The majority of them left simply to better their position but there are a couple that didn't leave on good terms. Not everything is mint chocolate chip ice cream.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2007, 12:21:47 PM »
And a number of assistants were leaving for lesser or lateral jobs and it was clear they were no fan of Crean's style. 



I'm sorry but that is flat out untrue revisionist history

Sorry got a couple buddies very connected with Milwaukee hoops. 

Pannagio and Strohm?  Are they revisionist history? Strohm left with no job at all .

Let's go through each one and put it in perspective.


Tim Buckley left (and came back....that kills your whole theory right there) to become a HEAD COACH at Ball State
Darrin Horn left to become a HEAD COACH at Western Kentucky
Dwyane Stephens left to become the #1 Assistant at Michigan State...his alma mater
Tod Kolwacyk left to become the HEAD COACH at UWGB
Kyle Green left to become the HEAD COACH at Lewis
Panaggio left to become a HEAD COACH in the NBA Developmental League here in Los Angeles
Jean Priloeau left to move up one spot as an Assistant at Iowa State
Brian Wardle left to BECOME an assistant at UWGB
Todd Townsend left to BECOME an assistant at Northeastern

With the exception of Strohm, please show me the many or "number" that left for lateral jobs as I've just clearly shown that is not the case.


Now, are there guys that were rubbed the wrong way or didn't share the same passion, work ethic, etc...yup.  That will always be the case.  You will see guys that left every program in the country for one reason or another.


"When I was formulating a group of coaches to hire at Iowa State, Jean was one of the first names I had in mind," McDermott said. "I have a lot of respect for the two coaches he assisted under last (Mark Turgeon, Wichita State, Tom Crean, Marquette) and they had nothing but praise for Jean. We are elated to have him on staff."

Harrison

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2007, 12:40:29 PM »
I said losing 1 a year was no problem,  I then said a "number" left ...and then mentioned Strohm and pannagio...his move was lateral very best and he had said he wanted to settle while his kids finished school ...left on very bad terms.

Never said all said a "number"...

reading comprehension...not one of Chicos skills.

The Lens

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2007, 12:45:48 PM »
Hire an NBA guy, stays for a year, leaves for NBA
Hire an NBA guy, stays for a year, leaves for NBA

I would assume Crean had to know with DP & JS that they weren't long term solutions.  I think he likes having different guys touch the program.

As for the others, some of those moves can be called upward moves but is an AC job at Northeastern really better than Dir of Ops at a Big East school?  And Kyle Green left Lewis to be an AC at Northern Iowa.
Marquette, we always win the post-game.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2007, 12:53:09 PM »
When it comes to transfers, there are a few posters here who love to throw out lists of schools with similar transfer rates.

I'd like to see a single program in all of NCCA Division 1 with assistant coaching turnover rates as high as ours. Just one.

This is a lot more to it than not "sharing the same passion" or "work ethic." Did that get spit out of the MU PR machine?

I wish I still had MU88's eyewitness account of Crean's treatment of assistants during the fanny-whipping we took vs. MSU. I believe he even used the term "shameful." There is heat of the battle stuff and there is being a horse's ass. The rate at which our assistants leave have me firmly in the corner of the latter.

Harrison

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 01:08:19 PM »
Agreed about the MSU debacle...but then chicos will simply say Todd Townsend left for a step up position!  Is a asst job or a head job at a low major or NAIA school really a move up? or simply spin?
And quite honestly i would not have a problem with it if our team did not look so poorly coached so often, if we went to the NCAA's more than .500 of the time, if we were not 1-3 in first round games, if we were not signing the 10th ranked recruiting classes in the conference, if we did not sign so many recruits that were clear misses, etc. It has clearly had an effect.

NYWarrior

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2007, 01:10:10 PM »
As for the others, some of those moves can be called upward moves but is an AC job at Northeastern really better than Dir of Ops at a Big East school?  And Kyle Green left Lewis to be an AC at Northern Iowa.

Yes, both were moves up -- particularly Todd's.  In Townsend's case, he has not yet proven he can recruit......folks in that director of ops role can't recruit off-campus, a huge gap in any coach's skill base until proven.  Townsend needed to get into a job that'd let him recruit aggressively, master the in-home visit, and make the proper talent evaluations in the field.

Green to Lewis.  Up to that point he had not been a head coach at any level - - so he got that notch at Lewis which should help him down the line. Guys like Crean (never a head coach before MU) are the exception - - so Green's move was understandable.  Sure, he coulda stayed and landed a better AC job, but took a calculated risk to prove he could run a program, however small, and returned to a good mid-major.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 01:20:31 PM by NYWarrior »

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2007, 01:24:05 PM »
Agreed about the MSU debacle...but then chicos will simply say Todd Townsend left for a step up position!  Is a asst job or a head job at a low major or NAIA school really a move up? or simply spin?
And quite honestly i would not have a problem with it if our team did not look so poorly coached so often, if we went to the NCAA's more than .500 of the time, if we were not 1-3 in first round games, if we were not signing the 10th ranked recruiting classes in the conference, if we did not sign so many recruits that were clear misses, etc. It has clearly had an effect.

I have heard the rumors about the Crean/Townsend dustup before the game, but this post described abhorrent behavior by Crean during the game -- much of it directed at Seltzer, if memory serves.

Murffieus

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2007, 01:44:46 PM »
Nightmare-----Jordan leanred to shoot from none other than John Paxson who took him aside and tweaked his technique.

Now I'm not saying that DJ can be converted to a SN, but I do think with a couple of adjustments he could be at least an average perimeter shooter (35-36%)----essentially he does three things incorrectly-----bad habits----and those bad habits can be corrected just like bad habits in a golf swing can be corrected.

If i coached Shaq----I'd have him either shoot FTs underhand----or barring that
hold the ball right over the tip of his head (about 1 1/2 feet over) and rely almost solely on wrist & finger  snap----IMO he gets too much of his "sledge hammer" arms involved in the FT motion!

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2007, 01:57:42 PM »
Agreed about the MSU debacle...but then chicos will simply say Todd Townsend left for a step up position!  Is a asst job or a head job at a low major or NAIA school really a move up? or simply spin?
And quite honestly i would not have a problem with it if our team did not look so poorly coached so often, if we went to the NCAA's more than .500 of the time, if we were not 1-3 in first round games, if we were not signing the 10th ranked recruiting classes in the conference, if we did not sign so many recruits that were clear misses, etc. It has clearly had an effect.

Yes, it's a big difference.  In order to advance to be a head coach some day, you need to prove you can recruit.  A director of basketball operations cannot recruit, it is against NCAA rules.  So yes, it's a HUGE STEP up.  No other way you can cut it.  Better title, likely better money, way more responsibility.  That is a step up.

If anyone is spinning, its you guys that don't realize a promotion and the process it takes to get to their final destination...which is a head coaching position.  Steps are required, and they are taking those steps.

Finally, do you know about the Lewis situation and why he went there....I didn't think so and it shows.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 03:53:46 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

ecompt

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2007, 08:17:54 AM »
Murff, I would love to be there the day you tell Shaq he has to shoot free throws underhand. That would be some conversation. Wilt used to shoot FTs that way, and wasn't terrible at it. Then he thought it was too unmanly and went to the fire-the-ball-overhand style, and it was a disaster (much like Shaq). The point I was making earlier is that you make it sound so easy to say, "Try it this way." Maybe MU did that with DJ and he said, "I've been doing it this way all my life and I'm not going to change now." DJ hit all those shots against Valpo; was that because this form was better? Nope. He just had a hot streak. Sadly, after that game he thought he could do that at will, and we saw how his game hit a speed bump. I'm sure you were a very good high school coach. You should know that some players will accept coaching, some won't, and some will but for one reason or another will never improve. I don't know which category DJ fits in, but implying that MU never worked with him on his form is probably misguided. 

Murffieus

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2007, 11:34:59 AM »
ecompt----if a player ever told me that he isn't going change (as you suggest DJ may have told Crean) for whatever reason -----I'd suspend him on the spot----that's insubordination-----no coach should put up with that-----if he does his effectiveness as a coach will be diluted!

As far as Shaq is concerned, I've watch him very closely on FTs-----sometimes he runs a streak when he'll make 8 out of 10 or so-----during these positive streaks he gets a lot less arm motion into his FT and more wrist and finger snap------when he's missing it's more arm and less of the wrist & fingers. He's just so muscular that he just doesn't have the finesse with those "sledgehammer" arms needed to shoot FTs conventionally!.

ecompt

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Re: Sichting leaving for MN, as per Star Tribune
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2007, 02:23:17 PM »
Murff, what I'm saying is that telling guys to change their form doesn't always translate to success. I guarantee you could spend the next three months (24-7) working with Shaq on his free throws and he's still going to hit 50 percent, and maybe 30 percent when the game's on the line. And I should have said that DJ would have said to himself "I'm not going to change." I didn't mean to imply that DJ (or another player) would say that outright to a coach.

MUBasketball

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Jerry Sichting officially to Minnesota T-Wolves
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2007, 03:03:50 PM »