Why aren't we in with higher rated recruits?

[Dawson Rental]

The top players aren't looking to be part of a good "team".  They want to be "Da Man".  MU's teams play without great individual talent, but a great blending of talent.  If I'm a Top 10 guy I want to go where the team revolves around me.

There are exceptions.  Austin Rivers would have been one example.  What you're talking about was the basis of McGuire's recruitment strategy.  "The senior star system."  Defeated only by NBA early entrance.

[ErickJD08]

The top players aren't looking to be part of a good "team".  They want to be "Da Man".  MU's teams play without great individual talent, but a great blending of talent.  If I'm a Top 10 guy I want to go where the team revolves around me.

That is not true at all. UNc, KU, UK, Duke, OSU, and a handful of other schools consistently get top talent.

[🏀]

The irony of this thread is that the original poster has a personal vendetta against the highest regarded Marquette recruit in a long time.

[Scooter22]

Just keep getting the DJOs, JFBs, and Jae Crowders of the world and let the other schools fight over the one and dones.

Amen, my friend.

[ErickJD08]

The irony of this thread is that the original poster has a personal vendetta against the highest regarded Marquette recruit in a long time.

I don't have a personal vendetta against Blue. I have a personal vendetta against players who start, play 20+ minutes, and cant hit a layup. Blue so happens to fall into that group of players.

[🏀]

I don't have a personal vendetta against Blue. I have a personal vendetta against players who start, play 20+ minutes, and cant hit a layup. Blue so happens to fall into that group of players.

But...but...Blue plays on the USA team with the other elite players you are clamoring for.

[MUMac]

I don't have a personal vendetta against Blue. I have a personal vendetta against players who start, play 20+ minutes, and cant hit a layup. Blue so happens to fall into that group of players.

Get rid of the shovel, PLEASE.  Man, you are insufferable. 

[tower912]

Buzz is in on a lot of top 20 players.   But there have been some comments by Buzz and his players that may explain why he doesn't land them.    I am not going to list them all, but they go along the lines of Buzz not wanting players who have a sense of entitlement.    Crowder saying that Buzz busts their balls every day.    The whole riff today from the announcers about how hard MU works every day in practice.   The comment from Steve Taylor posted on the scout board about how brutal Buzz is to his players during practice but shows equally how much he loves them.    The insults toward Gardner.   The lack of playing time for freshman, generally.
     Bottom line is that Buzz wants talented players who want to be coached hard.   He doesn't want talented kids who don't want to work hard.    This message is made clear during recruiting.   Erick, the first rule when you find yourself in as big a hole that you keep placing yourself in is to quit digging.   

[brewcity77]

My point as to why i care about getting top flight talent is simply this. To win a championship, you need one or two of those top 20 recruits on your team.

No, your point is that you don't follow Marquette recruiting. In 2010, Buzz had two top-50 recruits in Blue and Jones. That's one hell of a start for a coach who had scarcely been here a year, especially landing one five-star. In 2011, we were in the running for Quincy Miller, Jarnell Stokes, and BJ Young, all top-20 talents that simply went elsewhere. It's not like Buzz wasn't trying, we just didn't end up lucking out, and since he didn't have much of a resume during the bulk of their recruitment, it's no real surprise. In 2012, we were in on Anthony Bennett, Mitch McGary, Alex Poythress, Kris Dunn, and Rodney Purvis. We're still a dark horse for Devonta Pollard, though our lack of scholarships makes that unlikely.

Bottom line, we're "in" with higher-rated recruits. There are very few of them, but Buzz has already landed one five-star and is in the market for more. Who, other than Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, and Arizona are getting them on a regular basis?

Going forward, despite having a full class, we're still being mentioned with Kendrick Nunn, Nick King, and Johnathon Williams III in 2013, and more impressively I've seen us listed with Andrew Wiggins, Tyus Jones, Noah Vonleh, Emmanuel Mudiay, Theo Pinson, JaQuan Lyle, and Cliff Alexander in 2014, all of whom are around that top-ten level.

Granted, they won't all come to Marquette, but getting them interested is a start. Getting ranked and making it to the second weekend of the tournament also helps. For the love of god, Buzz took over in the middle of a recruiting year, still landed a top-50 PG that year, landed two top-50 players the next year, has given us a productive class (Mayo, D. Wilson, Anderson) with another top-100 this year in what we'd probably call a "down" year, and has excellent looking recruits coming in for the next two seasons.

I think he's doing pretty damn good on the recruiting front. You might think otherwise, but you also might have given yourself a home lobotomy this morning.

[ringout]

Bottom line is that Buzz wants talented players who want to be coached hard.   He doesn't want talented kids who don't want to work hard.    This message is made clear during recruiting.   Erick, the first rule when you find yourself in as big a hole that you keep placing yourself in is to quit digging.   

Erick is not that smart.

[4everwarriors]

We are consistently a solid team. Players improve in our program. I think we play a "fun" style of basketball. Why aren't more four/five stars interested in our program?

Well, it started goin' downhill with Crean and haven't been able to get rid of the stench since.

[muwarrior69]

Kid goes to MU he is a 3-4 star; goes to UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Kansas that same kid is 4-5 star. Ranking don't mean anything.

[wadesworld]

Kid goes to MU he is a 3-4 star; goes to UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Kansas that same kid is 4-5 star. Ranking don't mean anything.

Yeah.  A couple posters on here seem to obsess over recruiting rankings and stars.  News flash: a player's basketball abilities, attitude, and work ethic makes a kid a good basketball player in college, not some meaningless number next to his name on a piece of paper or website created by some guy who has seen the kid play once, tops.  If it was up to people like The Equalizer and Erick, they might as well not even play a season.  Just get recruiting classes, take the rankings of all the guys on each team and average out their rankings, and whoever has the highest ranked players on average wins the National Championship.

I would much rather have a completely underrated player with a chip on his shoulder who comes in and works his ass off to get better (Mayo, Gardner) than a guy ranked in the top 10 who feels he is entitled to everything and doesn't need to work for anything (Birch, formerly of Pitt).  DJO, Crowder, Butler, Buycks, etc. were not ranked coming into Marquette since they were JUCO players.  Man, those guys are awful.  I can't stand that we have players like them rather than 5 star recruits!

Come on.  We're freaking 11-3 and in 2nd place in the Big East.  We're about to be ranked in the top 10 in the country on Monday.  Is the only team that is "elite" the team that wins the National Championship?  If top 10 in the country isn't elite, I don't know what is.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Well Said!

[Stretchdeltsig]

Buzz has done a great job recruiting.  The talent level has increased each year and it will continue to escalate with the team's success.  Recruits want to play for a winner.  The time is here that more recruits want to come to Marquette than there are openings.  Sign the best, Buzz.

[The Equalizer]

Yeah.  A couple posters on here seem to obsess over recruiting rankings and stars.  News flash: a player's basketball abilities, attitude, and work ethic makes a kid a good basketball player in college, not some meaningless number next to his name on a piece of paper or website created by some guy who has seen the kid play once, tops.  If it was up to people like The Equalizer and Erick, they might as well not even play a season.  Just get recruiting classes, take the rankings of all the guys on each team and average out their rankings, and whoever has the highest ranked players on average wins the National Championship.

News flash for you: those rankings and stars are earned because a player demonstrates ability, talent, attitude and work ethic.

And that elite player that we don't have right now is the difference between us being ranked 12th overall and 2nd in the Big East, and challenging Syracuse for a #1 seed and the #1 rank nationally.

You seem to be satisfied with being ranked 10th to 15th, #3 seed in the NCAA tournament.  A likely Sweet 16 team with an outside chance of pulling an upset and going further.  And that's fine.  However, I think we can be better--but we need just a bit more talent to get there.

Maybe you don't remember, but we were there for much of the 70's.  

I would much rather have a completely underrated player with a chip on his shoulder who comes in and works his ass off to get better (Mayo, Gardner) than a guy ranked in the top 10 who feels he is entitled to everything and doesn't need to work for anything (Birch, formerly of Pitt). 

You mean like Mike Deane, who preferred the David Diggs types over the Quentin Richardsons?  

You know what type of player I would like?  Not the Khem Birch type, but the top 10 kid who comes in with enough humility to realize that he's proven nothing.  That won't keep that rank unless he comes in and works his ass off every day.  The type of kid who knows he has to work hard to maintain his leadership over that lesser talented kid with the chip.  The type of kid who is disappointed if he doesn't win the league championship, not excited to get a double bye in the Big East tournament. THATs the kid *I* want.

And Buzz seems to prefer my type of guy as well because he spends a lot of time and effort trying to land them. Do you think he's doing it just for grins?  And he's still spending a lot of time working on them for future years.  

DJO, Crowder, Butler, Buycks, etc. were not ranked coming into Marquette since they were JUCO players.  Man, those guys are awful.  I can't stand that we have players like them rather than 5 star recruits!

Not true. Crowder was chosen as the #1 JUCO player  DJO and Buycks were both in the top 10. Butler was one of a handful of first-year players receiving honorable mention. I love having highly ranked players like this.

I'd just like our HS players to be just as highly ranked.  

Come on.  We're freaking 11-3 and in 2nd place in the Big East.  We're about to be ranked in the top 10 in the country on Monday.  Is the only team that is "elite" the team that wins the National Championship?  If top 10 in the country isn't elite, I don't know what is.

As good as we are, we're probably only one elite-level player away from winning a league championship and getting a #1 seed.

Look at what Cody Zeller did for Indiana this year.  I'm sure you'd argue that for three straight years--2008, 2009 and 2010---Buzz at MU has outrecruited Crean at IU by a wide margin.  Crean brings in just one such elite-level player in 2011, and IU instantly closes the gap.  

Just imagine how good we COULD be if we had Zeller or Quincy Miller or Branden Dawson on this year's roster.

[DCWarriors04]

While it would be nice to see more 4 and 5's coming to Marquette, with the 4 and 5's comes some of the "drama" and "bs" that is associated with them. Plus, how many would be able to make it through Buzz's boot camp? I'll gladly take the 3 and low 4s looking to prove something.

[Dawson Rental]

Yeah.  A couple posters on here seem to obsess over recruiting rankings and stars.  News flash: a player's basketball abilities, attitude, and work ethic makes a kid a good basketball player in college, not some meaningless number next to his name on a piece of paper or website created by some guy who has seen the kid play once, tops.  If it was up to people like The Equalizer and Erick, they might as well not even play a season.  Just get recruiting classes, take the rankings of all the guys on each team and average out their rankings, and whoever has the highest ranked players on average wins the National Championship.

I would much rather have a completely underrated player with a chip on his shoulder who comes in and works his ass off to get better (Mayo, Gardner) than a guy ranked in the top 10 who feels he is entitled to everything and doesn't need to work for anything (Birch, formerly of Pitt).  DJO, Crowder, Butler, Buycks, etc. were not ranked coming into Marquette since they were JUCO players.  Man, those guys are awful.  I can't stand that we have players like them rather than 5 star recruits!

Come on.  We're freaking 11-3 and in 2nd place in the Big East.  We're about to be ranked in the top 10 in the country on Monday.  Is the only team that is "elite" the team that wins the National Championship?  If top 10 in the country isn't elite, I don't know what is.

I've got one quibble.  Is Gardner (a player I really like BTW) really "working his ass off to get better?"  Based on Buzz's latest comments about him, I'd guess that Buzz is looking for more effort from him, particularly on the weight management front.

BTW, do you mean to say that a five star recruit by definition "feels he is entitled to everything and doesn't need to work for anything."  I would disagree with that, it just sounds like sour grapes to me.  Based on who MU is recruiting for 2014, I think that Buzz would disagree, as well.  I think Buzz will start to get five star recruits and will be smart enough to steer away from recruits who feel a sense of entitlement.  

[cheebs09]

Based on the top 25 team rankings right now, there's a wide variety of the types of recruits those teams are winning with. 5 stars are great, but there are only so many, and there are always diamonds in the rough.

As for being content with a 10-15 ranking, if we are in that range every year, I will be thrilled. We don't have the name brand advantage that a Duke or UNC has. Even those teams aren't always in the top 10. I think Buzz can get us into the range of a team always competing for a Sweet Sixteen and making a deep run here and there. He is recruiting well enough to get us there and I see our recruiting getting better as he builds up a great resume.

It is very difficult to be a constant top 10 team, even for the Kansas' and Kentucky's of the world. If we could get more 5-stars I would be thrilled, since the up-side is higher and so are their floors, but I have no complaints about the players Buzz is bringing in right now. Good players come from many different places, not just 5-star Rivals rankings.

[jtrash37]

This thread is pretty hilarious in its timing. 

Probably not the best time to lament the make-up of our roster or Buzz's judge of talent.  Wouldn't trade this team... very talented and hard-working with lots of heart.  They buy into the program and succeed... that is more important than a player's arbitrary extra 50 spots in recruiting ranking.

+1,000,000

[Abode4life]

In the past have we not also gotten 4-5 start recruits?  Wasn't Mbawkwe a four star?  And we had Tyshawn Taylor til Crean left.  What were D James and Matthews?  It is very rare for teams to be able to get multiple 4-5 stars every year until you you make a few final fours in a short period of time.  And with the coaching change, I think Buzz has done a great job. 

[BCHoopster]

News flash for you: those rankings and stars are earned because a player demonstrates ability, talent, attitude and work ethic.

And that elite player that we don't have right now is the difference between us being ranked 12th overall and 2nd in the Big East, and challenging Syracuse for a #1 seed and the #1 rank nationally.

You seem to be satisfied with being ranked 10th to 15th, #3 seed in the NCAA tournament.  A likely Sweet 16 team with an outside chance of pulling an upset and going further.  And that's fine.  However, I think we can be better--but we need just a bit more talent to get there.

Maybe you don't remember, but we were there for much of the 70's.  

You mean like Mike Deane, who preferred the David Diggs types over the Quentin Richardsons?  


Are you serious about Quincy Miller, he would not even start for MU, Dawson might, Zeller would. 

You know what type of player I would like?  Not the Khem Birch type, but the top 10 kid who comes in with enough humility to realize that he's proven nothing.  That won't keep that rank unless he comes in and works his ass off every day.  The type of kid who knows he has to work hard to maintain his leadership over that lesser talented kid with the chip.  The type of kid who is disappointed if he doesn't win the league championship, not excited to get a double bye in the Big East tournament. THATs the kid *I* want.

And Buzz seems to prefer my type of guy as well because he spends a lot of time and effort trying to land them. Do you think he's doing it just for grins?  And he's still spending a lot of time working on them for future years.  

Not true. Crowder was chosen as the #1 JUCO player  DJO and Buycks were both in the top 10. Butler was one of a handful of first-year players receiving honorable mention. I love having highly ranked players like this.

I'd just like our HS players to be just as highly ranked.  

As good as we are, we're probably only one elite-level player away from winning a league championship and getting a #1 seed.

Look at what Cody Zeller did for Indiana this year.  I'm sure you'd argue that for three straight years--2008, 2009 and 2010---Buzz at MU has outrecruited Crean at IU by a wide margin.  Crean brings in just one such elite-level player in 2011, and IU instantly closes the gap.  

Just imagine how good we COULD be if we had Zeller or Quincy Miller or Branden Dawson on this year's roster.

[AZWarrior]

The voice of reason.

The voice of reason, indeed.  Credit to you, sir.  Now, get off this board!   

[Benny B]

"Elite" players are attracted by three things:

1) Playing time
2) A national stage almost every night
3) $$$$$$$$$$$

The more of those you can guarantee, the more elites you'll attract.  Unfortunately, MU has nothing to give in that regard.