Bring back the Warriors!

[mr.MUskie]

Is it the return of the Fighting Sioux?  Supporters of the University of North Dakota's nickname turned in more than 17,000 signatures Tuesday night to cap a petition drive to force a statewide vote on a moniker the NCAA says is insulting to American Indians.

[TallTitan34]

Oh no.

I'm guessing the fact we are a private university makes this irrelevant to MU.

[Dawson Rental]

Oh no.

I'm guessing the fact we are a private university makes this irrelevant to MU.

Perceived political correctness makes this irrelevant to MU.  Well, that and 4ever's avatar.

[tower912]

Good luck with that. 

[downtown85]

Maybe Pilarz is different?   

[4everwarriors]

Murray Man, them was the days when Willie would do his war dance to "Cherokee" with tomahawk in hand, during the first time out of the second half, aina?

[Dawson Rental]

Murray Man, them was the days when Willie would do his war dance to "Cherokee" with tomahawk in hand, during the first time out of the second half, aina?

Yeah, unfortunately them was the days that put "Warriors" in the cross hairs, sigh.

I miss the point of your reference to the Assyrian International News Agency (AINA).

[4everwarriors]

Maybe the oversized paper mâché head had somethin' to do with it? BFD!
Don't see anyone gettin' their thongs in a bunch over the Washington Redskins, in our nation's capital, no less. And, if animals could talk...

[leever]

Maybe the oversized paper mâché head had somethin' to do with it? BFD!
Don't see anyone gettin' their thongs in a bunch over the Washington Redskins, in our nation's capital, no less. And, if animals could talk...

If animals could talk, all the golden chickens off the world would be royally pissed off at our current mascot / symbol.

[GGGG]

UND is voluntarily a member of the NCAA.  This is an NCAA rule.  They have three choices:

1. Change the nickname and the imagery in compliance with the rule.

2. Suffer the consequences of the rule and be barred from hosting any NCAA playoffs and from wearing uniforms with the imagery in playoff games.

3. Leave the NCAA

If the people of the State of North Dakota care that much about their nickname, keep it.  But I don't want to hear the whining later on.

[Benny B]

Give it time young (and old) Warriors.  Eventually, Potawatomi will need Valley Fields back to build another hotel.  At that point, all will be in balance again.

[MU82]

Maybe the oversized paper mâché head had somethin' to do with it? BFD!
Don't see anyone gettin' their thongs in a bunch over the Washington Redskins, in our nation's capital, no less. And, if animals could talk...

Actually, Native Americans and their supporters picket many Redskins games, and there have been numerous attempts to change by far the most racist team name in U.S. pro and college sports.

Lots of Native Americans have their "thongs in a bunch" over the drunk-looking Indian mascot on Cleveland's hats, too.

The move against Warriors probably was overly politically correct, but only Redskins and Indians fans would argue their case. Their main defense is "tradition." Hmmm. If memory serves, it was a longstanding tradition to keep blacks out of major-league baseball, too.

[Benny B]

Actually, Native Americans and their supporters picket many Redskins games, and there have been numerous attempts to change by far the most racist team name in U.S. pro and college sports.

Lots of Native Americans have their "thongs in a bunch" over the drunk-looking Indian mascot on Cleveland's hats, too.

The move against Warriors probably was overly politically correct, but only Redskins and Indians fans would argue their case. Their main defense is "tradition." Hmmm. If memory serves, it was a longstanding tradition to keep blacks out of major-league baseball, too.

That wasn't a tradition.  It was an "unwritten rule" that was written down on multiple occasions.

[downtown85]

UND is voluntarily a member of the NCAA.  This is an NCAA rule.  They have three choices:

1. Change the nickname and the imagery in compliance with the rule.

2. Suffer the consequences of the rule and be barred from hosting any NCAA playoffs and from wearing uniforms with the imagery in playoff games.

3. Leave the NCAA

If the people of the State of North Dakota care that much about their nickname, keep it.  But I don't want to hear the whining later on.

Isn't there a 4th option.  I mean the Florida State Seminoles and the Central Michigan Chippewas both use native American nicknames and imagery without any sort of penalty.    just sayin'.  

The fifth option is getting rid of the stupid politically correct NCAA rule.

[GGGG]

Isn't there a 4th option.  I mean the Florida State Seminoles and the Central Michigan Chippewas both use native American nicknames and imagery without any sort of penalty.    just sayin'. 

OK...fourth option.  Get the Sioux tribes to change its mind and agree to its usage like the Chippewa and Seminoles have. 

That's not going to happen though.

[Bocephys]

OK...fourth option.  Get the Sioux tribes to change its mind and agree to its usage like the Chippewa and Seminoles have. 

That's not going to happen though.

Everyone has their price...

[Earl Tatum]

Noticed at the before the TV game Marquette and Notre Dame.  Marquette Warriors on the screen. LOVE IT!!

[AZWarrior]

Noticed at the before the TV game Marquette and Notre Dame.  Marquette Warriors on the screen. LOVE IT!!

It's all part of the vast "Bring back the Warriors nickname" conspiracy.  Nudge-nudge.  Wink-wink. 

Keep in on the QT, now.   

[EnderWiggen]

Not to fuel this fire, but I never understood why we didn't keep the Warrior name, but remove any American Indian references.  "Warrior" doesn't necessarily refer to American Indians since tons of different cultures have had warriors.  Of course, we would have to come up with a culture-free mascot and logo, but at least we would have kept the name.  That said, this is a REALLY old issue and when i graduated (2004), the vast majority of students considered themselves eagles and not warriors (although there will always be a very vocal group of students who keep the warrior name alive).

[downtown85]

Not to fuel this fire, but I never understood why we didn't keep the Warrior name, but remove any American Indian references.  "Warrior" doesn't necessarily refer to American Indians since tons of different cultures have had warriors.  Of course, we would have to come up with a culture-free mascot and logo, but at least we would have kept the name.  That said, this is a REALLY old issue and when i graduated (2004), the vast majority of students considered themselves eagles and not warriors (although there will always be a very vocal group of students who keep the warrior name alive).

Let's have the university spend a lot of money on a survey of alumni, students, faculty and other stakeholders in the university and then ignore the results. 

[EnderWiggen]

Let's have the university spend a lot of money on a survey of alumni, students, faculty and other stakeholders in the university and then ignore the results. 

Yea, that was absurd.

I think I might be one of the few people here that definitely respects the idea that we shouldn't be offending any cultural group, but it seems like the administration went way overboard and then handled the issue with stunning incompetence. 

[mr.MUskie]

Not to fuel this fire, but I never understood why we didn't keep the Warrior name, but remove any American Indian references.  "Warrior" doesn't necessarily refer to American Indians since tons of different cultures have had warriors. 

Yeah, who says Warriors has to refer to Native Americans?  Someone out there with some computer graphics skills can come up with a bad-a$$, over-muscled, weapon-wielding anonymous, generic "warrior" to represent our warriors on the bball court.  It could even be customized by sport - a bball, a volleyball, lacrosse sticks, etc.  Who would we offend - graphic artists? 

[🏀]

All of these comments have been made before. Many times and you can look them up using the search function.

Bottom line, it's not happening. These points have been made every year, and it still hasn't happened.

Move along.

[bilsu]

Apparantly you can not insult Irish by using the nickname "Fighting Irish"

[MU82]

That said, this is a REALLY old issue and when i graduated (2004), the vast majority of students considered themselves eagles and not warriors.

When the university decided to let us all vote on the name, I happened to come across Travis Diener, who was with the Pacers. I asked which name he voted for and he said, "Golden Eagles, of course. That's what I was."

(My write-in choice was The Marquette Blue.)

Anyway, as another poster said, it's time to move along. This old Warrior agrees.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

When the university decided to let us all vote on the name, I happened to come across Travis Diener, who was with the Pacers. I asked which name he voted for and he said, "Golden Eagles, of course. That's what I was."

(My write-in choice was The Marquette Blue.)

Anyway, as another poster said, it's time to move along. This old Warrior agrees.

Interesting story, but Diener was still at Marquette when this came up. And he admitted, on TV, that he preferred Warriors.

[MattyWarrior]

Never gonna happen.

[DCWarriors04]

Not to fuel this fire, but I never understood why we didn't keep the Warrior name, but remove any American Indian references.  "Warrior" doesn't necessarily refer to American Indians since tons of different cultures have had warriors.  Of course, we would have to come up with a culture-free mascot and logo, but at least we would have kept the name.  That said, this is a REALLY old issue and when i graduated (2004), the vast majority of students considered themselves eagles and not warriors (although there will always be a very vocal group of students who keep the warrior name alive).

Well, I'm glad to say I'm part of the minority then. I'm an '04 grad and the majority of the Marquette shirts I wear are Marquette Warriors' shirts. Golden Eagles in name, but Warriors at heart.

[real chili 83]

OK...fourth option.  Get the Sioux tribes to change its mind and agree to its usage like the Chippewa and Seminoles have. 

That's not going to happen though.

This pisses people off because of the heavy handed approach the school took, the hypocrisy of how the NCAA enforces this, and the stink of PC. 

The warrior mascot was fun, given the context of those times.  So was Blazing Saddles...but back in the day.  Admit it, you laughed at that movie when it first came out.

Willie wampum is not appropriate now.  But, to ban the name Warrior name, is overkill.  Warrior is a word that has many meanings. It is not owned by the native community.  Period.  To buy into that thinking is incorrect.

The school can do this, if they choose to put the correct amount of effort and thought into it.  Will they take some heat for it.....yes.  But those people can be lumped into the same general bucket that has the same "well intended" folks that think reparations is appropriate...analogy might be a bit of overkill, but you get my point.

[GGGG]

It has been explained here before, but its never going to happen.  Not because it's "PC"...not because of the NCAA...

Read this thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=18168.0;all

bma's posts make it pretty clear why we will not be going back to Warriors.  Ever.

[muwarrior87]

This pisses people off because of the heavy handed approach the school took, the hypocrisy of how the NCAA enforces this, and the stink of PC. 

The warrior mascot was fun, given the context of those times.  So was Blazing Saddles...but back in the day.  Admit it, you laughed at that movie when it first came out.

Willie wampum is not appropriate now.  But, to ban the name Warrior name, is overkill.  Warrior is a word that has many meanings. It is not owned by the native community.  Period.  To buy into that thinking is incorrect.

The school can do this, if they choose to put the correct amount of effort and thought into it.  Will they take some heat for it.....yes.  But those people can be lumped into the same general bucket that has the same "well intended" folks that think reparations is appropriate...analogy might be a bit of overkill, but you get my point.

I laughed at it when I watched it last month for the umteenth time!!

[real chili 83]

It has been explained here before, but its never going to happen.  Not because it's "PC"...not because of the NCAA...

Read this thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=18168.0;all

bma's posts make it pretty clear why we will not be going back to Warriors.  Ever.

Sultan, thanks for the link.  It pre-dates my time on scoop.  

God, I hope Bma is wrong.  If his theory is correct, my Alma mater's integrity is a joke.  Period.  That would be a disappointment to so many people, on so many levels.  And no, I am not naive enough to believe this stuff can't happen....look at how ND sold it's soul to NBC  .

Anyways, wasn't there some board members on-board with changing the name back a number of years ago...or was that a ruse that the school put on?

I have to believe that MU's alum would support the return of Warrior (done appropriately) in a way that would be very financially beneficial.  At a minimum, there has to be some fiery, aspiring, anti-PC law school alum who could find a way to either prove BMA's theory, and get that out for all to see, or help the school finds it's way back to a respectful return to Warrior.  Just my humble opinion as a proud Warrior alum.

[Blackhat]

Only way Warriors comes back is if we have a Boone Pickens/Phil Knight level booster who could fund top level projects themselves and demands Warriors.

Even then I don't know if they would do it cause of long term hit against academic rep if some lib professors then bail/ can't attract top lib professors.

[real chili 83]

Only way Warriors comes back is if we have a Boone Pickens/Phil Knight level booster who could fund top level projects themselves and demands Warriors.

Even then I don't know if they would do it cause of long term hit against academic rep if some lib professors then bail/ can't attract top lib professors.

I agree, people will have to pony up to make this happen.

If some PC profs bail, who cares.  They don't share the values of the average alum....which hopefully reflect the values of our school.

[jsglow]

16 graduating classes (or so) have been Golden Eagles.  Every year that number grows and old Warriors (and Hilltoppers) pass on.  Give it a rest.

[real chili 83]

16 graduating classes (or so) have been Golden Eagles.  Every year that number grows and old Warriors (and Hilltoppers) pass on.  Give it a rest.

Nope.  Doesn't make it right.

[jsglow]

Well, I'm sorry chili.  I'm from your era and it simply won't happen.  Ever.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

why don't we have a football team?

[real chili 83]

Well, I'm sorry chili.  I'm from your era and it simply won't happen.  Ever.

I realize that.  Just gotta vent once in a while

Good news is that our Warriors are a top 20 team.  Go Warriors!!!!!!!

[MUBurrow]

The warrior mascot was fun, given the context of those times.  So was Blazing Saddles...but back in the day.  Admit it, you laughed at that movie when it first came out.

Disagree. Everything about Blazing Saddles was tongue in cheek. Its humor is based entirely on self-recognition - which is exactly what the use of Native American mascots lacked.

[Lennys Tap]

Even then I don't know if they would do it cause of long term hit against academic rep if some lib professors then bail/ can't attract top lib professors.

If we lose a professor over a nickname he or she is a professor worth losing.

[Skarrface]

Kind of funny that my son, who is a junior at MUHS, is watching Blazing Saddles in his homeroom "film making" class this week!

[dgies9156]

Look, if a Jesuit turned down $1 million to bring back the Warrior name, it aint going to happen.

Not now. Not tomorrow. Not ever!

That said, in my house, we aint no Golden Chickens. No Furry Birds (just look at that ridiculous eagle if you do not believe me). No goofy chicken hawks.

WE ARE WARRIORS. 

Sorry, Fathers Pilarz, DeUilio and Wild, that aint gonna change. We were Warriors then; we are Warriors now and we will be Warriors until the day we die!!!!

[4everwarriors]

Profound, Chief.

[brewcity77]

I say just drop the mascot. Why do we need a overstuffed anything on the sidelines. We chant "We Are Marquette", not "We Are Warriors" or "We Are Golden Eagles". It's not like our chicken head would even be recognized by anyone that wasn't a Marquette fan. It's our colors and our logo that we can market. That's all we need.

Just Marquette.

[Stretchdeltsig]

We play like warriors.  There aren't any golden eagles living in Wisconsin!

[MU82]

Sadly, Golden Eagles is a weak name. Boring. Incredibly lacking in uniqueness, as more than a dozen other schools have it.

Even the school knows how weak it is because our official logo is no longer a bird but the block MU.

If we had to give up Warriors, at least Hilltoppers would have been an homage to our history and a name not found everywhere else (though we would have shared it with Western Kentucky).

But as many have stated, this is an old argument. (Then why do I keep weighing in? Obsession is not an attractive quality!)

[mr.MUskie]

School is Fighting Sioux again

BISMARK, ND --  The University of North Dakota will resume using its contentious Fighting Sioux nickname despite threats from the NCAA, the school's president said Wednesday, marking the latest twist in a protracted fight about a name that critics consider offensive.

[wildbill sb]

Sadly, Golden Eagles is a weak name. Boring. Incredibly lacking in uniqueness, as more than a dozen other schools have it.

Even the school knows how weak it is because our official logo is no longer a bird but the block MU.

If we had to give up Warriors, at least Hilltoppers would have been an homage to our history and a name not found everywhere else (though we would have shared it with Western Kentucky).

But as many have stated, this is an old argument. (Then why do I keep weighing in? Obsession is not an attractive quality!)

Golden Eagles?  Whatever. Remember when Hank was AD and changed the mascot logo from the cartoonish fierce Indian/tomahawk to the sedate, visually respectful profile of a Native American.  We also changed the human game mascot's garb/dance moves to resemble those of a combo of actual Wisconsin Indian tribes.  We were so far in front of the PC movement at the time. <sigh>  How did we end up playing catch up in such a miserable fashion?  <sigh, sigh>

[forgetful]

Why not Golden Warriors, switch to a greek warrior decked out in gold armor.  People could wear Warriors apparel and refer to the team as warriors.

[hairy worthen]

Why not Golden Warriors, switch to a greek warrior decked out in gold armor.  People could wear Warriors apparel and refer to the team as warriors.

this was thrown around back when the Gold fiasco was going down. I guess it made too much sense so they didn't buy it. Not sure I like golden warriors though, too many other connotations

Brew city has it right. We are Marquette. Screw the nickname and the goofy mascot, if the nickname has to be mentioned use "warriors" the official name doesn't matter if everyone uses someting else.

[DienerTime34]

As long as the name says 'Marquette' on the front of the jersey, the nickname doesn't matter.

Nicknames and mascots are for 10 year-olds and men who still want to be children.

[Dr. Blackheart]

16 graduating classes (or so) have been Golden Eagles.  Every year that number grows and old Warriors (and Hilltoppers) pass on.  Give it a rest.

And the student section, who in their entirety have had only Buzz Williams as their hoops coach, continues to vociferously boo the former head coach every game as he appears on the big screen pre-game because of his perceived slight to the players and university on how he left (right or wrong).  The coach that for many of these now students were not even in puberty when he took MU to their last Final Four.  It is called tradition when those feel slighted and for what is right...one held in MU's mission and history.

The fact that 16 years have passed and this debate is still alive in the media and university circles is because of that tradition and history. The Warrior nickname was never about the Indian logos to most, but the spirit of always fighting for what is right and just...to the end.  This is why it remains emotional...and why new students adopt the name.  Just look at the former African-American players, minorities who were slighted in every way and fully understand the sensitivity, use the Warrior name for the university who gave them their chance out.  Personally, I love that MU has this undercover nickname....it matches the spirit of the original...and is talked about even more as a result.  MU has always been the underdog, even today with its ADD coach that no one else wanted.  Only at MU.

[4everwarriors]

Golden Eagles?  Whatever. Remember when Hank was AD and changed the mascot logo from the cartoonish fierce Indian/tomahawk to the sedate, visually respectful profile of a Native American.  We also changed the human game mascot's garb/dance moves to resemble those of a combo of actual Wisconsin Indian tribes.  We were so far in front of the PC movement at the time. <sigh>  How did we end up playing catch up in such a miserable fashion?  <sigh, sigh>

That was the brain child of Sam Sauceda, for obvious reasons.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

That was the brain child of Sam Sauceda, for obvious reasons.

you should be proud today, cat.  My 3 year old just walked up to the computer and asked who the guy on the computer was (Your photo).  Now he's walking around chanting Willie, Willie.

I, too, have been saying for years that we drop the nickname and mascot and just be Marquette.

[real chili 83]

Why do we continue to talk about this, as opposed to moving on, as some of our alum have suggested?

Doc, in large part, has it nailed in his post above.  It's about the meaning of the word Warrior, and what that means to most of us.

Also, the heavy handed method used to dump Warrior, accompanied by the stench of PC in the air, just grates away at many of us.  

Truly, if this was no big deal, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

This thread will not change MU back to Warriors, but it does allow us to vent.  Who knows what the future could bring.......

In the mean time, Go Warriors!

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Why not Golden Warriors, switch to a greek warrior decked out in gold armor.  People could wear Warriors apparel and refer to the team as warriors.

Or better yet, why not a Spanish warrior? It would adequately sum up the people who think the Warrior name has any chance of coming back in any official capacity.

[Lennys Tap]

And the student section, who in their entirety have had only Buzz Williams as their hoops coach, continues to vociferously boo the former head coach every game as he appears on the big screen pre-game because of his perceived slight to the players and university on how he left (right or wrong).  The coach that for many of these now students were not even in puberty when he took MU to their last Final Four.  It is called tradition when those feel slighted and for what is right...one held in MU's mission and history.

The fact that 16 years have passed and this debate is still alive in the media and university circles is because of that tradition and history. The Warrior nickname was never about the Indian logos to most, but the spirit of always fighting for what is right and just...to the end.  This is why it remains emotional...and why new students adopt the name.  Just look at the former African-American players, minorities who were slighted in every way and fully understand the sensitivity, use the Warrior name for the university who gave them their chance out.  Personally, I love that MU has this undercover nickname....it matches the spirit of the original...and is talked about even more as a result.  MU has always been the underdog, even today with its ADD coach that no one else wanted.  Only at MU.

+ one gazillion

[ringout]

OK...fourth option.  Get the Sioux tribes to change its mind and agree to its usage like the Chippewa and Seminoles have. 

That's not going to happen though.

$$$,$$$,$$$.$$

[4everwarriors]

you should be proud today, cat.  My 3 year old just walked up to the computer and asked who the guy on the computer was (Your photo).  Now he's walking around chanting Willie, Willie.

I, too, have been saying for years that we drop the nickname and mascot and just be Marquette.

What does he say when you're on the Persian Kitty website?

[GGGG]

$$$,$$$,$$$.$$

Yeah and who is going to give the tribes this money?

And now the Big Sky Conference is considering revoking its invitation to join the conference starting in fall 2012.  They had invited both South and North Dakota, but South joined the Missouri Valley Football Conference, leaving North Dakota as its 13th and most geographically isolated member.

I know they are trying to prove a point, but this is potentially devastating to a school trying to transition to Division 1.

[ringout]

Yeah and who is going to give the tribes this money?

And now the Big Sky Conference is considering revoking its invitation to join the conference starting in fall 2012.  They had invited both South and North Dakota, but South joined the Missouri Valley Football Conference, leaving North Dakota as its 13th and most geographically isolated member.

I know they are trying to prove a point, but this is potentially devastating to a school trying to transition to Division 1.

I was referring to what it took to change the nickname to Golden Chickens.  I acknowledge that there is no source for the kind of ching we are talking about.