Profile of possible Catholic conference members

[Norm]

I posted a similar thread about a year ago, but with Pitt and Syracuse bolting for the ACC and the Big East on shaky ground, MU might have to join forces with like-minded (Catholic) basketball-only schools. I'd also suggest including Butler, which is private but not Catholic (I'd swap Butler in and take Dayton out, but that's just me). All the schools are from large cities which could help with media and exposure. Here's some info on possible conference members:

Marquette University – Big East
Milwaukee, WI
Catholic – Jesuit
11,548 Students (8,048 undergraduates)
Facility: Bradley Center (19,000)
29 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2003, 2002, 1997, 1996, 1994, 1993, 1983, 1982, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1973, 1972, 1971, 1969, 1961, 1959, 1955
9 Sweet 16's: 2011, 2003, 1994, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1974, 1969, 1955
5 Elite Eight's: 2003, 1977, 1976, 1974, 1969, 1955
3 Final Fours: 2003, 1977, 1974
1 Runner Up: 1974
1 Championship: 1977

DePaul University – Big East
Chicago, IL
Catholic – Congregation of the Mission (Vincentian)
25,072 students (16,199 undergraduates)
Facility: Allstate Arena (18,500)
22 NCAA tournaments: 2004, 2000, 1992, 1991, 1989*, 1988*, 1987*, 1986*, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1976, 1965, 1960, 1959, 1956, 1953, 1943 (* vacated by NCAA)
2 Final Fours: 1979, 1943

Villanova University – Big East
Philadelphia, PA
Catholic – Friars of the Order of St. Augustine
9,535 Students (6,425 undergraduates)
Facilities: The Pavilion (6,500 capacity) Wachovia Center (18,000+)
32 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 1999, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1991, 1990, 1988, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1978, 1972, 1971*, 1970, 1969, 1964, 1962, 1955, 1951, 1949, 1939 (*NCAA vacated)
18 Sweet 16's: 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 1988, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1978, 1972, 1971*, 1970, 1964, 1962, 1955, 1951, 1949, 1939
12 Elite Eight's: 2009, 2006, 1988, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1978, 1971*, 1970, 1962, 1949, 1939
4 Final Four's: 2009, 1985, 1971*, 1939
1 Runner Up: 1971*
Championship: 1985

Georgetown University – Big East
Washington, DC
Catholic – Jesuit
15,318 Students (7,092 undergraduates)
Facility: Verizon Center (20,600 capacity)
27 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2001, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1979, 1976, 1975, 1943
11 Sweet 16's: 2007, 2006, 2001, 1996, 1995, 1989, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1980
7 Elite Eight's: 2007, 1996, 1989, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1980
5 Final Four's: 2007, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1943
3 Runner Up's: 1985, 1982, 1943
Championship: 1984

Providence University – Big East
Providence, RI
Catholic – Dominican Friars
5,806 Students (3,938 undergraduates)
Facility: Dunkin Donuts Center (12,500 capacity)
15 NCAA tournaments: 2004, 2001, 1997, 1994, 1990, 1989, 1987, 1978, 1977, 1974, 1973, 1972, 1966, 1965, 1964
5 Sweet 16's: 1997, 1987, 1974, 1973, 1965
4 Elite Eight's: 1997, 1987, 1973, 1965
2 Final Four's: 1987, 1973

Seton Hall University – Big East
South Orange, NJ
Catholic – Archdiocese of Newark
9,800 Students (5,300 undergraduates)
Facility: Prudential Center (18,500)
9 NCAA tournaments: 2006, 2004, 2000, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1989, 1988
4 Sweet 16's: 2000, 1992, 1991, 1989
2 Elite Eight's: 1991, 1989
1 Final Four: 1989
1 Runner Up: 1989

St. John's University – Big East
New York, NY (Queens)
Catholic – Congregation of the Mission (Vincentians)
21,346 Students (15,092 undergraduates)
Facilities: Carnesecca Arena (6,008) Madison Square Garden (20,000)
27 NCAA tournament's: 2011, 2002, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1977, 1976, 1973, 1969, 1968, 1967, 1961, 1952, 1951
6 Elite Eight's: 1999, 1991, 1985, 1979, 1952, 1951
2 Final Four's: 1985, 1952
1 Runner Up: 1952

Xavier University – A-10
Cincinnati, OH
Catholic – Jesuit
6,966 Students (4,228 undergraduates)
Facility: Cintas Center (10,250)
22 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1998, 1997, 1995, 1993, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1983, 1961
5 Sweet 16's: 2010, 2009, 2008, 2004, 1990
2 Elite Eights: 2008, 2004

Dayton University – A-10
Dayton, OH
Catholic – Society of Mary (Marianists)
11,000 Students (7,500 undergraduates)
Facility: UD Arena (13,455)
14 NCAA tournaments: 2009, 2004, 2003, 2000, 1990, 1985, 1984, 1974, 1970, 1969, 1967, 1966, 1965, 1952
6 Sweet 16's: 1984, 1974, 1967, 1966, 1965, 1952
3 Elite Eight's: 1984, 1967
1 Final Four: 1967
1 Runner Up: 1967

Duquesne University – A-10
Pittsburgh, PA
Catholic – Congregation of the Holy Spirit
10,363 Students (5,858 undergraduates)
Facility: A.J. Palumbo Center  (5,358 capacity)
5 NCAA tournaments: 1977, 1971, 1969, 1952, 1940
1 Final Four (1940)

St. Louis University – A-10
St. Louis, MO
Catholic – Jesuit
12,700 Students (7,800 undergraduates)
Facility: Chaifetz Arena (10,600) Dedicated in 2008
6 NCAA tournaments: 2000, 1998, 1995, 1994, 1957, 1952

University of Detroit Mercy – Horizon
Detroit, MI
Catholic – Jesuit
5,700 Students
Facility: Calihan Hall (8,295 capacity)
5 NCAA tournaments: 1999, 1998, 1979, 1977, 1962
1 Sweet 16: 1977

*Butler University – Horizon*
Indianapolis, IN
Private - Founded by attorney and abolitionist Ovid Butler
4,512 Students (3,897 undergraduates)
Facility: Hinkle Fieldhouse (10,000 capacity)
11 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2003, 2001, 2000, 1998, 1997, 1962
5 Sweet 16's: 2011, 2010, 2007, 2003, 1962
2 Elite Eights: 2011, 2010
2 Final Fours: 2011, 2010
2 Runner-Ups: 2011, 2010

[77ncaachamps]

13 teams isn't going to fly.

Take Butler out and the even number is good.

I think ND should go to the Big 1o, but if they don't they'll fit well in this conference esp if FB is still independent.

[chris4381]

When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Before we know it the conference champ is going to receive the golden chalice, the poy is going to be the choir boy of the year, and the conference champ gives the pope a jersey. What would make a top recruit want to play in this conference as opposed to the current Big East?

[Norm]

13 teams isn't going to fly.

Take Butler out and the even number is good.

I think ND should go to the Big 1o, but if they don't they'll fit well in this conference esp if FB is still independent.

I agree, that's why I have Butler in ** - to swap in for Dayton to make it an even 12. (Others may want to swap out other teams, I just think Xavier already covers the Cincinnati/Dayton market.)

[Norm]

When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Before we know it the conference champ is going to receive the golden chalice, the poy is going to be the choir boy of the year, and the conference champ gives the pope a jersey. What would make a top recruit want to play in this conference as opposed to the current Big East?

This proposal is only if the current Big East dissolves, which seems very likely after this weekend. I would love for the Big East to stay together.

As for Detroit-Mercy, they have a good coach and some young guys that could help them make some noise this upcoming season. They haven't done much lately, but they did have some good years in the late 90's. I included them mainly because of the Detroit market and the exposure that would help with recruits in that region.

[RyanConroy]

University of Notre Dame
Georgetown University
Marquette University
Villanova University
George Washington University
DePaul University
Seton Hall University
St. John's University
Providence College
University of Dayton
St. Joseph's University
Xavier University
Butler University
Loyola University

---

I was hoping more along the lines of that. 14 teams, mostly catholic, all private.

[Boozemon Barro]

Gonzaga and Creighton would be good options as well.

[4everwarriors]

Has Mid-Major written all over it.

[MUMac]

Gonzaga and Creighton would be good options as well.

Gonzaga is too far an outlier to be included.  Remember, this is for more than basketball.

[brewcity77]

I definitely think it's time to start thinking for ourselves. I've been fearing this for awhile, but didn't think it'd happen so soon. I really hope we can make a very, very inhospitable atmosphere when Pittsburgh visits in January. Regardless, I think either a 10-team or 12-team league is ideal. With 10, you get home-and-homes across the board and an 18-game schedule, with 12 you probably have 2 divisions for home-and-homes, games against everyone, and a 16-game schedule. The advantage is more media markets. So with markets in mind, here's my ideal 12-team conference:

EAST

St. John's (#1 New York)
Villanova (#4 Philadelphia)
Boston University (#7 Boston/Manchester)
Georgetown (#9 Washington DC)
Providence (#52 Providence/New Bedford)
Seton Hall (Reinforces NYC, Big East tradition)

WEST

DePaul (#3 Chicago)
Detroit-Mercy (#11 Detroit)
St. Louis (#21 St. Louis)
Xavier (#34 Cincinnati)
Marquette (#35 Milwaukee)
Notre Dame (#89 South Bend, but it is ND)

I realize there are a few non-traditional names on my list. First and foremost is Boston University. They've had some basketball success in the 2000s, but are more known for their hockey team. However, this is about market size. Without BC, we could really use a way to get back into a top-10 market. I considered UMass, who I think is much more desirable, but they are going D1 in football next year, so I left them out for the same reason I left Temple out (well, that and we already have the Philly market covered with 'Nova).

Next, I don't think anyone argues against Seton Hall or Notre Dame, but they don't exactly bring in major markets themselves. However, both are also current Big East teams and I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold like the football schools are doing to us. Guess I'd call it a conscience. In addition, SHU reinforces New York (since Newark pretty much shares the same media market) and Notre Dame reinforces Chicago as well as the state of Indiana. They'll be an added draw wherever our league is on television.

Detroit-Mercy may not be a popular pick, but they do bring a big television market. They have a coach and some players that are up-and-coming, and frankly, I weighed them against a school like Butler and they just make a little more sense. I know Butler is hot right now, but if Stevens leaves, what happens to them? They're just a weak sister, whereas UDM would seem to have more of a chance of surviving and thriving in this conference when you consider their media market.

Other schools I considered, and that would have to be considered if the league were larger (or if ND bolted to the Big Tweleven) were UMass, Duquesne, George Washington, Dayton, Butler, Cleveland State, Creighton, and Gonzaga. The reasons I left teams out were D1 football (UMass, Temple), overlapping TV markets (George Washington, Dayton), not enough long-term value (Butler, Cleveland State), and simple distance (Creighton, Gonzaga).

[GGGG]

When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together,

Really?  Cause I don't.  To me, the schools that we are left with are schools that just happen to be Catholic...and we shouldn't use that historical coincidence to determine who are future partners should be.  Brew's suggestions are good but I would rather have Butler and Richmond instead of Detroit and BU.

[brewcity77]

Really?  Cause I don't.  To me, the schools that we are left with are schools that just happen to be Catholic...and we shouldn't use that historical coincidence to determine who are future partners should be.  Brew's suggestions are good but I would rather have Butler and Richmond instead of Detroit and BU.

Richmond's another good option, their market (#58) is a bit lower than I'd like, but they're still solid. My main thought is that big-market teams can adapt to being in a successful conference. I think places like Boston and Detroit would be able to flourish, and survive the dips (like DePaul is doing...seem to be improving, albeit slowly, with Purnell). What happens to a Richmond or Butler when their coach leaves? Will they survive, or just become another Horizon/CAA also-ran?

Of course, I was also a broadcasting major with a focus in television, so maybe I'm overly biased in that regard.

Oh...and I'm with Sultan on the Catholic schools. Who cares? We're looking at long-term viability, not sentimentality. Seton Hall is about as far as sentiment will get me, maybe Providence, but they have proven to be leaders in the Big East over the years and I think have value beyond their market size. I'd take public schools like UMass if I thought they could get us the long-term stability we need.

[bilsu]

I just find it hard to believe that perennial conference winners such as Butler or Gonzaga would see joining a water down Big East as a good idea. They do not need us and joining us could end up being a step back for them, if they do not win enough to get to NCAA tournament. I see Xavier as a possibility, but why should they leave a conference they are also having good success in? I think Xavier and Dayton will stick together, no matter what happens. There was a time they both felt looked down upon, because they did not go to Big East. In the end, it might turn out, to be the best thing that happen to them.

[Hards Alumni]

I just find it hard to believe that perennial conference winners such as Butler or Gonzaga would see joining a water down Big East as a good idea. They do not need us and joining us could end up being a step back for them, if they do not win enough to get to NCAA tournament. I see Xavier as a possibility, but why should they leave a conference they are also having good success in? I think Xavier and Dayton will stick together, no matter what happens. There was a time they both felt looked down upon, because they did not go to Big East. In the end, it might turn out, to be the best thing that happen to them.

The problem is that Butler and Gonzaga will feel the squeeze or the need to join a conference just in case the NCAA loses the BCS schools.

[Pakuni]

I definitely think it's time to start thinking for ourselves. I've been fearing this for awhile, but didn't think it'd happen so soon. I really hope we can make a very, very inhospitable atmosphere when Pittsburgh visits in January. Regardless, I think either a 10-team or 12-team league is ideal. With 10, you get home-and-homes across the board and an 18-game schedule, with 12 you probably have 2 divisions for home-and-homes, games against everyone, and a 16-game schedule. The advantage is more media markets. So with markets in mind, here's my ideal 12-team conference:

EAST

St. John's (#1 New York)
Villanova (#4 Philadelphia)
Boston University (#7 Boston/Manchester)
Georgetown (#9 Washington DC)
Providence (#52 Providence/New Bedford)
Seton Hall (Reinforces NYC, Big East tradition)

WEST

DePaul (#3 Chicago)
Detroit-Mercy (#11 Detroit)
St. Louis (#21 St. Louis)
Xavier (#34 Cincinnati)
Marquette (#35 Milwaukee)
Notre Dame (#89 South Bend, but it is ND)

I realize there are a few non-traditional names on my list. First and foremost is Boston University. They've had some basketball success in the 2000s, but are more known for their hockey team. However, this is about market size. Without BC, we could really use a way to get back into a top-10 market. I considered UMass, who I think is much more desirable, but they are going D1 in football next year, so I left them out for the same reason I left Temple out (well, that and we already have the Philly market covered with 'Nova).

Next, I don't think anyone argues against Seton Hall or Notre Dame, but they don't exactly bring in major markets themselves. However, both are also current Big East teams and I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold like the football schools are doing to us. Guess I'd call it a conscience. In addition, SHU reinforces New York (since Newark pretty much shares the same media market) and Notre Dame reinforces Chicago as well as the state of Indiana. They'll be an added draw wherever our league is on television.

Detroit-Mercy may not be a popular pick, but they do bring a big television market. They have a coach and some players that are up-and-coming, and frankly, I weighed them against a school like Butler and they just make a little more sense. I know Butler is hot right now, but if Stevens leaves, what happens to them? They're just a weak sister, whereas UDM would seem to have more of a chance of surviving and thriving in this conference when you consider their media market.

Other schools I considered, and that would have to be considered if the league were larger (or if ND bolted to the Big Tweleven) were UMass, Duquesne, George Washington, Dayton, Butler, Cleveland State, Creighton, and Gonzaga. The reasons I left teams out were D1 football (UMass, Temple), overlapping TV markets (George Washington, Dayton), not enough long-term value (Butler, Cleveland State), and simple distance (Creighton, Gonzaga).

Market size is kind of irrelevant when nobody in your market - much less nationally -  cares about you, i.e. Detroit, Boston U. Including those kinds of programs, quite frankly, makes the conference appear small-time.
A conference with higher profile schools/programs, even in smaller markets, would be far preferable, such as Gonzaga (though travel costs could be a deal killer), Butler, Creighton, GW.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people around here continue to write off Butler as possibility. They're not a two-year flash in the pan. While their current level of success is unsustainable (probably for anyone), they've made the tourney 11 of the past 14 years, getting past the first round six times. They're in a better basketball market than Detroit or Boston U. and are far more committed to the program.

Both Richmond and Butler have seen several successful coaches leave in recent years and they've continued to thrive.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I'm a proud season-ticket holder of a Horizon League school. That being said, why do you want Marquette to form a league with Detroit or Loyola.

[Skatastrophy]

I'm a proud season-ticket holder of a Horizon League school. That being said, why do you want Marquette to form a league with Detroit or Loyola.

Exactly.  I would rather be in a highly competitive league instead of being in a crappy catholic league.

[Aughnanure]

Will Notre dame stay? Thats a HUGE plus if they are in this conference. This, even at 16 teams doesn't look too bad.

St. John's
UMass
Seton Hall
Providence

Georgetown
Villanova
Charlotte
Richmond

Notre Dame
Xavier
Dayton
Butler

Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Creighton

I just wonder what will happen to schools like BYU, Gonzaga, UNLV and Memphis and if they could be part of the conference if geography can be worked out (Wichita St, Air Force help?).

[Hards Alumni]

Will Notre dame stay? Thats a HUGE plus if they are in this conference. This, even at 16 teams doesn't look too bad.

St. John's
UMass
Seton Hall
Providence

Georgetown
Villanova
Charlotte
Richmond

Notre Dame
Xavier
Dayton
Butler

Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Creighton

I just wonder what will happen to schools like BYU, Gonzaga, UNLV and Memphis and if they could be part of the conference if geography can be worked out (Wichita St, Air Force help?).

Replace Creighton with Memphis.  Creighton stinks.

[MUMac]

Replace Creighton with Memphis.  Creighton stinks.

That would force Memphis to be an independent in football.

An issue with some of the schools will be the sports they offer versus what the others in the potential league offer.  I have not investigated that, but ND, I believe, offers a significant number of more sports than the majority on that list.  That could prohibit (or at least influence) ND with the conference choice.

[Skatastrophy]

That would force Memphis to be an independent in football.

+1

Kansas is the obvious choice, imo.

[Aughnanure]

Replace Creighton with Memphis.  Creighton stinks.

No Creighton does not "stink." They average top-15 attendance every year and deserve to be in such a conference more so than Richmond, Detroit, , Duquense, etc., and others people throw out all the time. Plus a top-25 baseball program.

[muwarrior69]

The problem is that Butler and Gonzaga will feel the squeeze or the need to join a conference just in case the NCAA loses the BCS schools.

Gonzaga is already in a RECENTLY great Basketball only conference,  the WCC.

[Warriors10]

http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/9/19/2434449/acc-commissioner-john-swofford-villanova-acc

To me this is a long shot, but we are screwed even more if it happens.

[Knight Commission]

A prerequisite of any basketball conference needs to be the school has to spend X million on its basketball program. If Detroit, Loyola, and Duquense, etc. were to commit on that threshold they should be added.