Jake Thomas has RANGE

[Henry Sugar]

Thomas is a Mike Deane recruit, and a role player worth scholie consideration because of that one skill.

I agree with everything in the good Doctor's post, but the final sentence is a particularly good closing statement.

[GGGG]

Talent alone, he may have.  We will never know.  It was not his talent or lack there of that created his departure.

<sigh>  I went through this earlier this summer.  Yes it was.  People with more talent, who faced similar circumstances, are still around.  Therefore talent was the reason he is no longer here.

As you can choose not to read threads that you know will be bothersome to you.  Or, if my responses bother you, you are free to not read my posts as well. 

I realize what the ignore buttons are.  I did not know that you were the power that decided who should read what.  Thanks for clearing that one up.   

I was simply commenting on the absurdity of telling someone their posts are tiresome.  I truly don't care what you think about my posts.  You have the ability to ignore them if you wish.  But I'm not going to stop making them.

Hope this helps.

[NersEllenson]

Sultan from day 1 has been taking shots at people who talk positively about Thomas.  So, yes in many senses he is downgrading and no, not just being truthful.  I doubt he has seen him play in person.

As for paragraph one, yikes.  Large leap.  Far too broad a brush stroke to even attempt rationalization of your thought.

Mac - You'll come to learn that Golden Avalanche takes shots at Buzz/MU program with a great deal of consistency.  Don't expect any support there.  For every 1 "nice" post, there will be about 5 negatives one from Lanche...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Walk-ons get love because everyone likes an underdog story.  Fro was the ultimate teammate, student-athlete, and friend/peer.  Fans project the underdog to higher levels beyond their abilities. It is a feel good story that the average student fan relates to.  Nothing better than Zar waving his hands on the bench for the Frozen A to jack it up, but instead he throws it to his open teammate on the bench. It is a pity clap.

As I went back and forth with Sultan over the holiday, Thomas has a very unique D1 skill: his range, perhaps best in the BE. In a handful of games, he may get 10 minutes, but otherwise he will get spot or situational BE minutes. However, Thomas has never been a D1 walk-on, and earned a scholie this year. Buzz just does not give these out like candy. The staff is rumored to be very surprised how he has handled himself in open gym in other aspects of the game.  He is the ultimate situational role player, but most likely on a  bridge scholie.

The Novak comparison is offbase. Steve was uniquely tall and could shoot lights out over a defense. Thomas is not athletic, but he is more athletic than Steve. Steve could shoot over defenses within his range. Thomas needs to step further back to extend his range. At MU, teams had to prepare for Steve to stop him. If teams even think about preparing for Thomas like they did at SD, he will have been worth a scholie but that means MU flamed out on recruiting...but I doubt that will be the case which will be a great thing for a situational shooter off the bench as he will be more effective.  Thomas is a Mike Deane recruit, and a role player worth scholie consideration because of that one skill.

Best post in this thread.

Agree 100%. The kid has a shot at becoming a role player (like David Diggs his senior year). But, let's not get carried away (Steve Novak??)

The redshirt year won't make Jake a better athlete, but it will give him some extra time to prepare/strenghten himself in order to maximize his abilities.

[NersEllenson]

Best post in this thread.

Agree 100%. The kid has a shot at becoming a role player (like David Diggs his senior year). But, let's not get carried away (Steve Novak??)

The redshirt year won't make Jake a better athlete, but it will give him some extra time to prepare/strenghten himself in order to maximize his abilities.

My post may have been a little misleading - I don't think Thomas will be Steve Novak good or even close- but to those questioning Thomas's ability to defend/hold his own athletically and from a strength perspective - Steve Novak wasn't very strong, or athletically gifted - but he had that elite level shooting ability (at 6'10")  Novak RARELY ever created a shot off the dribble on his own...he benefited greatly from playing with the Big 3 and D-Wade in his time at MU.

I do think Thomas can be a 10 minute per game guy at MU his last 2 years..

[MUMac]

<sigh>  I went through this earlier this summer.  Yes it was.  People with more talent, who faced similar circumstances, are still around.  Therefore talent was the reason he is no longer here.


I was simply commenting on the absurdity of telling someone their posts are tiresome.  I truly don't care what you think about my posts.  You have the ability to ignore them if you wish.  But I'm not going to stop making them.

Hope this helps.

<sigh>  If not for his actions, he would still be on the team and who knows how much he would have contributed?  I know you do not. 

As for the absurdity, it goes both ways.  You constantly complaining about those who are constantly was the absurdity and reason for my comment.  See, you complained about the frequent comments, yet yours are nearly as frequent.

As for ignoring, you are quick to point that out.  Almost hoping.  I guess your posts are fine, others who disagree with you are not.  Frankly, the majority of your posts are great.  So, no I would not ignore.  I stick by my comment, though, your frequency on this issue, and in a thread that you know what it would be about, is nearly as tiresome as those who talk about how much of an impact Thomas will have.  You can keep posting, and so can I.

Have at the last comment, though, as I am done with this topic and I doubt there is interest in it beyond you.

[MUMac]

<sigh>  If not for his actions, he would still be on the team and who knows how much he would have contributed?  I know you do not. 

As for the absurdity, it goes both ways.  You constantly complaining about those who are constantly stating how much Thomas will contribute was the absurdity and reason for my comment.  See, you complained about the frequent comments, yet yours are nearly as frequent.

As for ignoring, you are quick to point that out.  Almost hoping.  I guess your posts are fine, others who disagree with you are not.  Frankly, the majority of your posts are great.  So, no I would not ignore.  I stick by my comment, though, your frequency on this issue, and in a thread that you know what it would be about, is nearly as tiresome as those who talk about how much of an impact Thomas will have.  You can keep posting, and so can I.

Have at the last comment, though, as I am done with this topic and I doubt there is interest in it beyond you.

[Golden Avalanche]

Sultan from day 1 has been taking shots at people who talk positively about Thomas.  So, yes in many senses he is downgrading and no, not just being truthful.  I doubt he has seen him play in person.

As for paragraph one, yikes.  Large leap.  Far too broad a brush stroke to even attempt rationalization of your thought.

Seems like you take more of a personal stake in Thomas if you felt the need to admonish Sultan regarding this topic. I gather that since you're not really upset with his opinion of Thomas, rather, you're are upset with how he defends that opinion against those who look at Thomas in a vastly different manner.

Regarding my first paragraph in the message you quoted, that was an actual question I was asking you.

[Hards Alumni]

My post may have been a little misleading - I don't think Thomas will be Steve Novak good or even close- but to those questioning Thomas's ability to defend/hold his own athletically and from a strength perspective - Steve Novak wasn't very strong, or athletically gifted - but he had that elite level shooting ability (at 6'10")  Novak RARELY ever created a shot off the dribble on his own...he benefited greatly from playing with the Big 3 and D-Wade in his time at MU.

I do think Thomas can be a 10 minute per game guy at MU his last 2 years..

So CAN anyone who walks on to the team...

The chances of it happening are tiny.

[Dawson Rental]

Well....let me just say that reports are that "lateral quickness" is an issue, and while he has OK size for a two guard, strength is an issue.  He is going to have trouble keeping people out of the lane.

Hopefully, his man won't be able to get into the lane because he'll be looking over at his coach who'll be screaming at him for giving up another three pointer.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So CAN anyone who walks on to the team...

The chances of it happening are tiny.

I disagree.

The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.

The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I disagree.

The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.

The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.

The many basketball "experts" on this board would disagree.  To my recollection, that's what most have been saying regarding both Singleton and Thomas...they weren't/aren't your standard issue walk-on so it wouldn't be that surprising if they were to get a few minutes throughout the course of the year.  Of course we'll never know with Singleton.  Thomas we won't know for another year+.  But, the experts on this board will continue to tell you how right they are anytime the topic comes up between now and then. 

[brewcity77]

Well, I could be wrong, but I don't think Frozena was going anywhere and averaging 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg. Again, anything Thomas gives us is gravy, but to compare him and Frozena seems a bit unfair in terms of basketball ability. I'm not as sold on Singleton. I watched both in the Pro-Am. While some (like Wes Matthews) were really impressed with Singleton, I thought he was average. I didn't see him getting more than a couple minutes.

Thomas, on the other hand, is such a good shooter that I can see him playing. On our team, Thomas will be left unguarded constantly. If he came on the floor with Wilson and Mayo as the other wings, I'm guessing most teams are keying on Wilson and Mayo. Leave that kid open from anywhere within 30 feet and he's got a good shot of hitting it. He may not be ideal defensively, but I imagine he could function within a zone where he doesn't have to keep up as much with an individual.

Again, I don't expect much from Thomas. If he never gets more than 2-4 mpg I'm fine with that because it means our scholarship players are doing what we hope. But if he earns more, I'll be happy with that. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen come to Marquette, and he'll get open looks if he's on the court. That's not a bad thing.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well, I could be wrong, but I don't think Frozena was going anywhere and averaging 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg. Again, anything Thomas gives us is gravy, but to compare him and Frozena seems a bit unfair in terms of basketball ability. I'm not as sold on Singleton. I watched both in the Pro-Am. While some (like Wes Matthews) were really impressed with Singleton, I thought he was average. I didn't see him getting more than a couple minutes.

Thomas, on the other hand, is such a good shooter that I can see him playing. On our team, Thomas will be left unguarded constantly. If he came on the floor with Wilson and Mayo as the other wings, I'm guessing most teams are keying on Wilson and Mayo. Leave that kid open from anywhere within 30 feet and he's got a good shot of hitting it. He may not be ideal defensively, but I imagine he could function within a zone where he doesn't have to keep up as much with an individual.

Again, I don't expect much from Thomas. If he never gets more than 2-4 mpg I'm fine with that because it means our scholarship players are doing what we hope. But if he earns more, I'll be happy with that. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen come to Marquette, and he'll get open looks if he's on the court. That's not a bad thing.

Just to clarify, my comparison to Rob was to show that walk-ons are not created equal.

As far as Thomas' future, I think you are projecting a lot specifics before actually seeing Wilson, Mayo or Thomas wear an MU uniform. A lot of variables in your scenario.

Thomas has a chance to be a role player (eventually) because he can shoot.

We can all agree on that.

[brewcity77]

Just to clarify, my comparison to Rob was to show that walk-ons are not created equal.

As far as Thomas' future, I think you are projecting a lot specifics before actually seeing Wilson, Mayo or Thomas wear an MU uniform. A lot of variables in your scenario.

Thomas has a chance to be a role player (eventually) because he can shoot.

We can all agree on that.

Very true, but I'm just using them as examples with Thomas because they're expected to be solid offensive contributors. Add in a Davante Gardner and you've got a lot of offense on the floor before you get to Thomas. If he's out there with other offensive guys, he can be a contributor. It's highly, highly, highly unlikely he'll ever be a star, starter, sixth man, or even full-time scholarship guy, but I do think he can be a useful player. There were quite a few times over the past two years we could have used a situational sniper. Thomas could very easily be that guy.

[Slim]

Very true, but I'm just using them as examples with Thomas because they're expected to be solid offensive contributors. Add in a Davante Gardner and you've got a lot of offense on the floor before you get to Thomas. If he's out there with other offensive guys, he can be a contributor. It's highly, highly, highly unlikely he'll ever be a star, starter, sixth man, or even full-time scholarship guy, but I do think he can be a useful player. There were quite a few times over the past two years we could have used a situational sniper. Thomas could very easily be that guy.

Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..

[brewcity77]

Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..

Well, it's possible, but we're still recruiting Zach Auguste (he'll be here next Friday) and it seems we're still on Blaise Mbargorba and Philip Nolan. Any of the three would take our last available scholarship for 2012. I don't think Buzz is the kind of guy to give a scholarship he doesn't have to if he can improve the team with it. Maybe if guys transfer we'll see Thomas renewed, but for now, I only expect it to be for this year.

[bilsu]

I was one of the posters who thought Singleton would help (not be a star) MU. That of course was before MU signed Mayo. Mayo I would assume would play before Singleton. However, if you look at last year's preseason pro agility drills Singleton had one of the best times. He had quickness, good size and a decent shot. What I thought about Singleton was that why he was not outstanding in any area, he was good in all areas and he had two years of experience. Contrasting him to Thomas, who is particularly outstanding in one area. Singleton quicker, Thomas taller, Thomas better deep outside shooter. Defensively, Singleton would probably be better than Thomas. Offensively Thomas is better. As far as being able to stay in front of his man all that might mean is Buzz changes his defense when he is in. Think of the combo of Gardner who collapses defenses and Thomas who would spread defenses on the floor at the same time. Neither are what I would consider strong man to man defenders, so put them on the floor at the same time and play a zone. When the other team collapses on Gardner you kick the ball out to Thomas. When the other team goes out to cover Thomas you get the ball inside to Gardner. They could be a very potent combination. Most college players are not solid in all areas, it is up to the coach to maximize their strength's and minimize their weaknesses.

[bilsu]

Well, it's possible, but we're still recruiting Zach Auguste (he'll be here next Friday) and it seems we're still on Blaise Mbargorba and Philip Nolan. Any of the three would take our last available scholarship for 2012. I don't think Buzz is the kind of guy to give a scholarship he doesn't have to if he can improve the team with it. Maybe if guys transfer we'll see Thomas renewed, but for now, I only expect it to be for this year.

It will only be renewed, if we have an unfilled scholarship due to a transfer. Buzz will use all the available scholarships and if past history is an indicator he may even oversign by one.

[Big Papi]

Too many factors involved to determine how much Thomas could play on any given day.  Will we suffer injuries or transfers that weaken our outside shooting.  Will our roster even have an outstanding outside shooter.  Then there are game circumstances.  Your down big and need as many gunners as you have to get back in it.  Players fouling out, Or you need a 3 point shoot at the end to tie a game.  Etc., etc.  No one can predict.  Louisville, Wisconsin and I'm sure other high major programs have used certain walk-on players who have contributed during a season.  It can be done if you have a good one but who knows. 

What I do know is that Thomas is a way better walk-on then we have had in a long, long time so can others see potential contributions at times other than blow-out wins?  Yes.  Thomas has range and a great skill level of shooting that can and will be used at some point in time during his career at MU.  Be it rarely, spot minutes here or there or consistent 5-10 minutes a game, who knows.  I for one am glad that we have here as he will contribute to the team every single day he is here. 

[NersEllenson]

Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..

It was stated in the Journal Sentinel Blog piece about Thomas getting a schollie that it was a 1-year deal only.

[Hards Alumni]

I disagree.

The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.

The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.

Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000

Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game  1/100

10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.

Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.

Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.

[NersEllenson]

Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000

Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game  1/100

10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.

Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.

Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.

Hards - I might owe you from a previous bet on if MU would land a Top 100 "big" in the 2011 class...though it looks like Steve Taylor in 2012 fits the bill...just a year late...nonetheless:

I'll bet you that $20 on Thomas getting 10mpg in his MU career - at the 1/100 odds you place it at!

How about this:  $20 bet at 3:1 - If Thomas averages 10+ minutes per game for his MU career - you pay me $60.  If he doesn't, I pay you $20.

[MUMac]

Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000

Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game  1/100

10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.

Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.

Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.

I tend to agree with you.  I think his playing time will be very specific, if they need a shooter or are playing against a zone.  I think he may get some meaningful minutes in some games, non in others.  By meaningful, I am not using minutes as a guide, but more focused on quality time - MU does not need a 30 point lead with 50 seconds to go for him to play. 

[bilsu]

The way I envision it is the Jones will get the first chance in games to be the designated three point shooter off the bench. Jones so far appears to be very streaky. Jones misses his first two shots and Thomas will get his chance in that game. It will continue that way every game until Thomas proves he is the better shooter.