Oversigning

[brewcity77]

By watching the pro am, I know Anderson is better than Jones. I suspect Taylor is to. Jamal Furguson(sp) I hope is better than Jones. I have no idea if playing time is a big issue to Jones, but I am sure Buzz does. I also cannot see Vander Blue staying, if he is not going to be a starter in future years. I think Wilson, Anderson and Taylor will keep him from starting at small forward, especially if MU adds another top 100 forward. Signing a top point guard shuts him out at point. Are Mayo and Taylor good enough to shut him out at the two?

Two thoughts...first, seeing these guys at the Pro-Am isn't the same as what Buzz will see at Boot Camp. Maybe they get Mellow playing more inside, his body is well-suited for it now. He wasn't always a consistent shooter, but maybe he can be if he's getting 2-4 minute spurts instead of playing the whole game. I love Anderson, but I'm not sure he'll be as good of a game player as he is a Pro-Am player right now.

And I hate the idea of speculating on guys leaving. I get it, but until we see these guys get a chance in 2011-12, we have no idea how much a Jones or Blue might be able to give.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for oversigning, but I hope it doesn't force us to try to force our own out.

[GGGG]

Two thoughts...first, seeing these guys at the Pro-Am isn't the same as what Buzz will see at Boot Camp. Maybe they get Mellow playing more inside, his body is well-suited for it now. He wasn't always a consistent shooter, but maybe he can be if he's getting 2-4 minute spurts instead of playing the whole game. I love Anderson, but I'm not sure he'll be as good of a game player as he is a Pro-Am player right now.

Not only not, but we know that defense is what gives you PT in Buzz's system.  Since the Pro-Am doesn't emphasize defense at all, and Anderson has yet to go through a single organized practice, I think the idea that he will be playing in front of Jones is pre-mature.  It certainly may happen, but don't base it on the Pro-Am.

[Hards Alumni]

Not only not, but we know that defense is what gives you PT in Buzz's system.  Since the Pro-Am doesn't emphasize defense at all, and Anderson has yet to go through a single organized practice, I think the idea that he will be playing in front of Jones is pre-mature.  It certainly may happen, but don't base it on the Pro-Am.

Honestly?

Jones is going to be deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep on the bench this year.

[77ncaachamps]

Not only not, but we know that defense is what gives you PT in Buzz's system.  Since the Pro-Am doesn't emphasize defense at all, and Anderson has yet to go through a single organized practice, I think the idea that he will be playing in front of Jones is pre-mature.  It certainly may happen, but don't base it on the Pro-Am.

Like everything that has been under Buzz's tenure, play in practice = more minutes.

[GGGG]

Jones is going to be deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep on the bench this year.

Our guards off the bench are...Blue...and...????  Choices are Mayo, D. Wilson and Jones.

My money is on Jones getting 12-15 mpg.

[avid1010]

Jones.  It seemed to me that Buzz wanted to play him last year in situations, but was fearful of his defense.  He'll get the prep minutes he needs early in the season, and if he can open the lane up with his outside shot it will be a big deal for MU.  Watching Anderson in the Pro-Am, and understanding what the Pro-Am is, I don't see Anderson doing much for MU this season. 

[Hards Alumni]

Our guards off the bench are...Blue...and...????  Choices are Mayo, D. Wilson and Jones.

My money is on Jones getting 12-15 mpg.

Bets?

[GGGG]

I don't gamble, but I would like to hear your alternative.  I do think that Anderson gets minutes this year too...  8-9 per game.

[TedBaxter]

I think Mayo will be in the top 8-9 players this year.

[GGGG]

I think Mayo will be in the top 8-9 players this year.

But see I don't know what you base that on.  He didn't play Pro-Am.  I didn't see anything that differentiated him from Jones at the HS level.

[TedBaxter]

But see I don't know what you base that on.  He didn't play Pro-Am.  I didn't see anything that differentiated him from Jones at the HS level.

First of all, Mayo played in the New England prep school area and played against better competition and he had something like 4 or 5 teammates sign with Division 1 schools and that didn't include Ledo, Myles Davis and Sam Cassell Jr. who will sign this fall.

Second, he was the best offensive performer on that team and what did he score in that National Prep School championships?  88 points in 3 games.

You can search Youtube for Todd Mayo or Notre Dame Prep to see some of his action, but this highlight video from a year ago shows you his offensive ability and he had the same type of success with Notre Dame Prep last year.  Very, very deceptive athlete and very patient with the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r4WjzdAzb0

[bilsu]

First of all Anderson, based on what other posters have posted this year, was known more in high school for defense than offense. So I believe he will be okay there. The problems I see for him is strength and sometimes he tries to do too much with the ball. I do not see many minutes for Jones at guard. I would expect DJO to play 30 minutes and Cadougan to play 25. I like D. Wilson, but he probably gets 1 minute of playing time. I have no idea about Mayo. Let us assume he only gets 1 minute, although I am hoping that he gets a lot more. That leaves 23 minutes at guard. Both Anderson and J.  Wilson can also play guard, but let us leave them out of the equation. Blue is going to get the majority of those 23 minutes. The minutes Jones gets will mostly be at the forward spot. I think Crowder and J. Wilson play 25 minutes each. Throw a minute to Gardner at the four leaves 29 minutes for Blue, Anderson and Jones. I think most people would agree that Blue would be first choice out of the three. However, his minutes here will be limited by the minutes he plays at guard. Blue's  minutes at guard will be determined by how good Mayo is. Assuming Mayo only plays one minute, Blue will probably only take 4 minutes of the forward spot leaving 28 minutes for Jones and Anderson. Jones will play a lot in games where he shows he can hit the three. When he is off he will not play long leaving the minutes to Anderson. Jones could very well be the first man off the bench at forward, but end up averaging less minutes than Anderson, because Jones' game is much more limited than Anderson's.

[bilsu]

First of all, Mayo played in the New England prep school area and played against better competition and he had something like 4 or 5 teammates sign with Division 1 schools and that didn't include Ledo, Myles Davis and Sam Cassell Jr. who will sign this fall.

Second, he was the best offensive performer on that team and what did he score in that National Prep School championships?  88 points in 3 games.

You can search Youtube for Todd Mayo or Notre Dame Prep to see some of his action, but this highlight video from a year ago shows you his offensive ability and he had the same type of success with Notre Dame Prep last year.  Very, very deceptive athlete and very patient with the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r4WjzdAzb0

I am not sure that Mayo played against better competition than Jones. Jones was on one of the top teams and they played against other top teams in the country. However, the three national tournament games I watched Jones play on TV in high school it was obvious he wanted to stay outside and jack up threes. However, he did have too great dunks in these games. The first one was number 7 in ESPN's top 10 plays. The next day he got the number one play in ESPN's top ten plays. He could be a pretty good player, if Buzz can get him to do more than just shoot threes. However, he just does not seem to want to change his game.

[GGGG]

Ted, what you are saying about Mayo you could say about Jones in many ways.  Top team...tough competition...excellent teammates (four from that team are playing D1 ball).  But you could be right.  We will have to see how it plays out.

bilsu, I understand your logic.  I just think Jones will play more off the bench because of his outside shot.  Blue and Junior just don't have that.  If Mayo steps up, he might steal those minutes.  I see Anderson as a primary sub at forward because I don't think we will see Gardner and Otule much on the floor at the same time.

[MUMac]

Ted, what you are saying about Mayo you could say about Jones in many ways.  Top team...tough competition...excellent teammates (four from that team are playing D1 ball).  But you could be right.  We will have to see how it plays out.

bilsu, I understand your logic.  I just think Jones will play more off the bench because of his outside shot.  Blue and Junior just don't have that.  If Mayo steps up, he might steal those minutes.  I see Anderson as a primary sub at forward because I don't think we will see Gardner and Otule much on the floor at the same time.

Nope, could not say the same about Jones.  Mayo's play in the tournament is no where close to Jones.  Mayo had more depth to his game as well.

I also know that Ted would not base it on a game or two.  Knowing Ted, he has watched a fair amount film on both before he made any determination. 

[TedBaxter]

This information comes from reports from the New England Recruiting Report, which I think is one of the best sources of high school/prep school information there is and I made a mistake earlier.  Notre Dame Prep had 8 D1 signees last year, not including Ledo, Davis and Cassell Jr..

Just in the National Prep School Championships alone, in the three games Notre Dame Prep competed in, the trio of opponents, the Tilton School, Brewster Academy and St. Thomas More had a total of 10 division 1 players from the 2011 class but that doesn't tell the whole story as each of the 3 teams had underclassman who are ranked in the top 5 in the 2012 and 2013 classes.  

In the opening game, Notre Dame went up against the Tilton School and that school had a top 100 2012 recruit and Iowa State verbal Georges Niang, top 5 2013 player Nerlens Noel, 2013 forward Goodluck Okonoboh and 2014 stud Wayne Seldon.

In the second game, they went up against Brewster Academy for the second or third time last year and Brewster had 2011 signees Naadir Tharpe (Kansas), Jakarr Simpson (St. John's), Markus Kennedy (Villanova), Durand Johnson (Pitt), Elijah Carter (Rutgers) and Max Hooper (Harvard) and the underclassman included some guy named Mitch McGary and another mystery guy in Deonte Burton.

Ironically, the least talented team overall may have been St. Thomas More, the team that beat Notre Dame Prep for the championship.  They had 2 Wofford signees, a Drexel signee and a big guy named Andre Drummond.

I'll go out on a limb and say Mayo is the most offensive ready freshman at MU since at least Lazar Hayward, and possbily even going back to the Amigos.  That's my opinion of watching game video of him.

[GGGG]

Ted, you have shown that you know more than me about this kind of stuff, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

[TedBaxter]

Ted, you have shown that you know more than me about this kind of stuff, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

We'll see how much I know in the end with Todd Mayo.  I've probably seen game clips from 5 or 6 games last year and in every game he produced the same way.  The only time I saw him look bad was when he went up against the Tilton School in a non-tournament game and on two plays in the second half he tried to challenge Nerlens Noel on drives and got snuffed each time by the shotblocker.  Then he won that game by hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.

[Jacks DC]

Getting back to the original question, if we have the chance to get Dunn and Cleare you definitely oversign and let things sort themselves out.  I highly doubt we end up in that situation though.  More likely that we will not get either one and the question will become whether we should bank a scholarship.  Hope I'm wrong this time.