Oversigning

[brewcity77]

As we sit with one scholarship left for the 2012 class, I'm looking at the guys out there and dreaming over which player might end up pulling on the best-looking uniform in college basketball. Kris Dunn, Shaquille Cleare, Zach Auguste, Ray Lee, Devin Thomas...and at the same time, I'm wondering if it has to be just one. In a dream scenario, I'd love to see us add both Dunn and Cleare. Two likely top-25 RSCI guys at the two most important positions on the court to go along with all the switchables we have seems like a formula for the Final Four. But to do that, we'd have to oversign.

In 2009, Liam McMorrow and Patrick Hazel left vacant scholarships. In 2010 it was Jeronne Maymon and Yous Mbao. Then in 2011, Reggie Smith and Erik Williams followed suit. While I am very happy with our team right now and am not anticipating anyone leaving, the reality of college basketball is that it happens. The departures of Smith and Williams leave us going into the 2011-12 season with only 11 active players and only 12 practice bodies (including Jake Thomas).

While many frown upon oversigning, I'm starting to see the benefit. Of our eleven players next year, five are top-100 RSCI guys. Three more are upperclassmen that are expected to start. The remaining three are Gardner, who is expected to get heavy minutes, and Mayo and Wilson, both high-three-star freshmen that most likely won't be called upon for major minutes once the Big East season starts. There's only 200 minutes per game to go around, and I'd guess that around 140 of those will go to the starting five (DJO, Crowder, Otule, Cadougan, Wilson). So that leaves 60 minutes for 6 guys. Some will get more, some will get less, but it's entirely possible that not all will be happy.

In addition, while Steve Taylor, TJ Taylor, and Jamal Ferguson are all committed to come here now, as Chicos always said, they aren't coming until they sign their letter of intent. So if Buzz has the chance at both Cleare and Dunn, should he oversign, in the anticipation that someone might want to transfer or decide not to sign?

[Lennys Tap]

Two top 25 guys? At our two biggest "need" positions? That's a no brainer - sign em up.

[GGGG]

I think you need to oversign.  Under Buzz, there have been transfers out every year.  I wouldn't doubt that this will be the case again after next year.  (Not that I know anything...)  There could be a Newbill-like situation, and that is something you have to prepare for, but I think having two unused scholarships is a bad problem too.  Everyone who was on scholarship at MU before leaving, continues to be on scholarship now - and that includes Roseboro and Newbill.  It's best that we use the scholarships we have allocated.

[Earl Tatum]

Dunn, Cleare, or Auguste.  OVERSIGN. Like mentioned never know who transfers.

[Earl Tatum]

Any word on how we stand with A. J. Hammons?

[Skatastrophy]

Any word on how we stand with A. J. Hammons?

http://illinois.scout.com/a.z?s=169&p=2&c=1092203&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fillinois.scout.com%2f2%2f1092203.html

Looks like we're still listed with him, but nobody knows for sure who he's interested in?  I don't have insider, so I'm going from the blub.

[brewcity77]

Any word on how we stand with A. J. Hammons?

Haven't been mentioned with him in ages, I'd guess we're out. He did recently say he felt he was a Big Ten guy. Sounds like Purdue will be tough to beat.

[kmwtrucks]

I'm a Big backer of oversigning and do not see anything wrong with it really.  That said with 7 offer's out to Wisc player's in 2013 and a strong class of 2013 in chicago, This might be a year I would be ok if we don't, assuming we get a few early commits from 2013.  Top 50 type player's I would take no matter what.

[Earl Tatum]

trucks------ Fully Agree. Still want a big.

[TedBaxter]

I don't think you'll see Marquette oversigning.  The program will not be doing anything to put any negative light on it after the situation this spring and oversigning will be construed as a negative by some people within the university.

[MUMac]

I don't think you'll see Marquette oversigning.  The program will not be doing anything to put any negative light on it after the situation this spring and oversigning will be construed as a negative by some people within the university.

Add to that, the heat that Buzz and the program took last year.  I agree.  I also hope they do not oversign.  We've done it twice and each time were told it would work itself out.  Saunders did in a way due to the bust.  Newbill's was a pure cluster.  No need for more bad press.

[4everwarriors]

Buzz has a thicker skin than that. He will do whatever is deemed necessary to field the best possible team he can. It's big business with jobs at stake and if oversigning is his best guarantee of doing so, consider it today's cost of doin' business.

[ringout]

Buzz has a thicker skin than that. He will do whatever is deemed necessary to field the best possible team he can. It's big business with jobs at stake and if oversigning is his best guarantee of doing so, consider it today's cost of doin' business.

What he said.

[MUMac]

Buzz has a thicker skin than that. He will do whatever is deemed necessary to field the best possible team he can. It's big business with jobs at stake and if oversigning is his best guarantee of doing so, consider it today's cost of doin' business.

Who said it's Buzz' skin?

[brewcity77]

Add to that, the heat that Buzz and the program took last year.  I agree.  I also hope they do not oversign.  We've done it twice and each time were told it would work itself out.  Saunders did in a way due to the bust.  Newbill's was a pure cluster.  No need for more bad press.

I think the problem with Newbill is twofold...first, it was blown up on their end. Honestly, I have to think that it was a conditional offer and when Wilson came available, it was rescinded. Who knows the truth, only those involved, but it seems like we heard more from Newbill's coach initially, who tried to rile everyone against Marquette.

The second part is that it was the first time for Buzz. Yes, the way Newbill was handled was a mistake. But if Wilson never opens up, it's not a problem. It wasn't so much oversigning as it was announcing a conditional player as a future scholarship player.

How would people feel if Buzz had acceptances from Dunn and Cleare right now? Would they "demand" that one of the five incoming players be rescinded? Would they just start speculating about who was on the way out? Or would they just accept that this is becoming a part of college basketball and wait until next summer to see how it played out?

For the time being, I tend to guess the first two scenarios are the most likely, but if oversigning becomes a habit and transfers and recruits changing their mind about MU before arriving sorts it out, is it really a problem in the long run? If not, I'm guessing eventually the third scenario would become the norm.

[4everwarriors]

Who said it's Buzz' skin?

Implied heat and skin equals the head dude or Buzz.

[brewcity77]

Implied heat and skin equals the head dude or Buzz.

Honestly, my guess is that the people that have an issue with oversigning are media and fans. I'm guessing, like you, Buzz is going to do what's best for the team regardless. But I believe the "who says it's Buzz's skin" is more referencing the people that started the huge uproar, from Phillycoach to the media to online console jockeys to (eventually...well after everyone else's disapproval was raised) Newbill.

It was interesting how it seemed every message board in the country was up in arms before Newbill even started his complaints. Phillycoach at work?

[TedBaxter]

I think what MUMac was saying is that Buzz isn't the only person who will be making this decision to offer a 14th scholarship.  Whether it's Mike Broeker or another athletic director choice, there will be a microscope on the program and the players and coaches will be held accountable like Buzz always says.  Oversigning in the fall when there is no obvious roster changes on the horizon will not be the way to go, especially in a new athletic director regime.

[MUMac]

I think what MUMac was saying is that Buzz isn't the only person who will be making this decision to offer a 14th scholarship.  Whether it's Mike Broeker or another athletic director choice, there will be a microscope on the program and the players and coaches will be held accountable like Buzz always says.  Oversigning in the fall when there is no obvious roster changes on the horizon will not be the way to go, especially in a new athletic director regime.

Bingo.

[4everwarriors]

It's Buzz' program and he's driving the bus, his call.

[bilsu]

Oversigning can create problems, but you have to take the risk. First of all Buzz knows how happy or unhappy a player is. Anytime you add a recruit that should diminish another players playing time, if will have an effect on a players happiness. One of the reasons Taylor picked MU, was that he could see immediate playing time. I can imagine one of the reasons Anderson picked MU was that he could see immediate playing time. Jones probably felt the same thing. By watching the pro am, I know Anderson is better than Jones. I suspect Taylor is to. Jamal Furguson(sp) I hope is better than Jones. I have no idea if playing time is a big issue to Jones, but I am sure Buzz does. I also cannot see Vander Blue staying, if he is not going to be a starter in future years. I think Wilson, Anderson and Taylor will keep him from starting at small forward, especially if MU adds another top 100 forward. Signing a top point guard shuts him out at point. Are Mayo and Taylor good enough to shut him out at the two? I look at MU's roster for next year and after and I see a lot of very good players, but I do not see a star. Someone could develop into a real star and it could even be Blue. Howeveer, you have to oversign to bring in a star. Do not oversign to bring in a non-difference maker.

[jsglow]

I would oversign only for a player that has the real chance to take the program to the 'next level' essentially by himself.  With that said, I'm not really in the market for a 'one and done' kid as I think that sends a message contrary to MU's educational philosophy.

[Tugg Speedman]

Buzz will over sign and other than 10 or 20 people on this board, no one will care.

No if over signing is a problem, then do away with the early signing period in November.  Everyone signs in April.

[avid1010]

It's Buzz' program and he's driving the bus, his call.

Agreed.  The AD works for Buzz...$$$ talks. 

[We R Final Four]

Oversigning can create problems, but you have to take the risk. First of all Buzz knows how happy or unhappy a player is. Anytime you add a recruit that should diminish another players playing time, if will have an effect on a players happiness. One of the reasons Taylor picked MU, was that he could see immediate playing time. I can imagine one of the reasons Anderson picked MU was that he could see immediate playing time. Jones probably felt the same thing. By watching the pro am, I know Anderson is better than Jones. I suspect Taylor is to. Jamal Furguson(sp) I hope is better than Jones. I have no idea if playing time is a big issue to Jones, but I am sure Buzz does. I also cannot see Vander Blue staying, if he is not going to be a starter in future years. I think Wilson, Anderson and Taylor will keep him from starting at small forward, especially if MU adds another top 100 forward. Signing a top point guard shuts him out at point. Are Mayo and Taylor good enough to shut him out at the two? I look at MU's roster for next year and after and I see a lot of very good players, but I do not see a star. Someone could develop into a real star and it could even be Blue. Howeveer, you have to oversign to bring in a star. Do not oversign to bring in a non-difference maker.

I have a pretty good guess that playing time maybe something desired by a schlolarship player.  The cream rises to the top.  Always oversign.