Deep NCAA runs earn a school enormous value-- in publicity

[HouWarrior]

Butler estimates its two Final Four runs garnered a staggering $500 million in publicity for the school--wow!

http://college-basketball-blog.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/30879290

Its interesting...in comparison to BB budgets...a very successful MU BB run deep into the tourney reaps a reward not often considered..huge $$ value returned to us in free publicity.

I guess its no real surprise...if it werent for MU BB, few in my town wouldve even heard of MU...many think my school must be pretty good...solely because we are regularly are in the national press over our BB program.

[77ncaachamps]

It matters that it was Butler and not Texas, since they spend considerably less on PR than Texas does.

[HouWarrior]

It matters that it was Butler and not Texas, since they spend considerably less on PR than Texas does.

Sure.
 But outside of its free sports publicity, UT's  next biggest free publicity was Charles Whitman sniping 13 kills, 31 wounded...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,842584,00.html

UT's free publicity fame for that extended to the movies, too...

HARTMAN: Do any of you people know who Charles Whitman was? None of you dumbasses knows? Private Cowboy?

COWBOY: Sir, he was that guy who shot all those people from that tower in Austin, Texas, sir!

HARTMAN: That's affirmative. Charles Whitman killed twelve people from a twenty-eight-storey observation tower at the University of Texas from distances up to four hundred yards.

... Do any of you people know where these individuals learned to shoot? Private Joker?

JOKER: Sir, in the Marines, sir!

HARTMAN: In the Marines! Outstanding! Those individuals showed what one motivated marine and his rifle can do! And before you ladies leave my island, you will be able to do the same thing!

[esotericmindguy]

I seem to remember reading about Marquette's prospective student applications doubling after the final four run.

[mu_hilltopper]

MU got a publicity and monetary bump from their S16 run this year.   

Shortly thereafter, the MU brand was tarnished by the alleged assault cases and legal issues.

Question: Net, net, has the Marquette "brand" gained or lost in 2011?

[mviale]

newsflash - no one knows about the bad publicity outside of Wisconsin.  However, everyone knows about dwade, marquette makes the ncaas every year, and furnished capable NBA players. 

[GGGG]

I didn't realize both Boston and Chicago were located in Wisconsin...

[Lennys Tap]

MU got a publicity and monetary bump from their S16 run this year.   

Shortly thereafter, the MU brand was tarnished by the alleged assault cases and legal issues.

Question: Net, net, has the Marquette "brand" gained or lost in 2011?

Good question. For now, I'd say the brand has gained. If, as some have suggested, there's another shoe that will drop, that could change.

[Benny B]

newsflash - no one knows cares about the bad publicity outside of Wisconsin.  However, everyone knows about dwade, marquette makes the ncaas every year, and furnished capable NBA players. 

Fixed.

[Pakuni]

I didn't realize both Boston and Chicago were located in Wisconsin...

Forgive me if I'm not convinced a muddled few sentences on Charlie Pierce's largely unreadable blog (I know, I tried it) has done significant harm to the Marquette in the Greater Boston area.

[wyzgy]

newsflash - no one knows about the bad publicity outside of Wisconsin.  However, everyone knows about dwade, marquette makes the ncaas every year, and furnished capable NBA players. 

ok ok chicago and boston metro areas have also read about our alleged malfeasances and probabilities that mu has misinterpreted the chain of legalese to follow.  that being said, how many people based their decisions on attending the school from that?? there are raging hormones going on in every corner. just leave the elvira costumes in the closet  the name change disappointed many and continues to do so.  these are  "childs-play" compared to sniper shootings and students getting assaulted and robbed on campus or in it's near vicinities.  any bad pub is not good and the longer it stays in print or on tv, definitely hurts.  get the pr machine cranked up and do a story on mu dentals satellite clinics and their outreach programs and get that warm and fuzzy going again   bottom line, we are a great school with pretty good intentions.  remember, humans are running it-shmit happens    

[tower912]

Marquette survived Dahmer, as well as murders in the 80's.  The house I lived in my senior year at 22nd and Michigan had a sexual assault in it the summer I moved in when someone broke in through a downstairs window.   Big picture,  this alleged assaults imbroglio is mouse nuts.    The sweet 16 run generated more interest nationwide than the alleged assaults can destroy.

[MerrittsMustache]

Marquette survived Dahmer, as well as murders in the 80's.  The house I lived in my senior year at 22nd and Michigan had a sexual assault in it the summer I moved in when someone broke in through a downstairs window.   Big picture,  this alleged assaults imbroglio is mouse nuts.    The sweet 16 run generated more interest nationwide than the alleged assaults can destroy.

+Sweet 16

The sexual assault allegations and subsequent fallout at MU were a blip on a blip on the radar screens of higher education and college athletics.

[Hards Alumni]

Marquette survived Dahmer, as well as murders in the 80's.  The house I lived in my senior year at 22nd and Michigan had a sexual assault in it the summer I moved in when someone broke in through a downstairs window.   Big picture,  this alleged assaults imbroglio is mouse nuts.    The sweet 16 run generated more interest nationwide than the alleged assaults can destroy.

This is exactly right.  The best way to judge if the nation knows about it is if it makes any news on espn.

It didn't, so it isn't.

Just a few guys in a few markets trying to make the story big so they could say they were the first ones on top of it.

[mu_hilltopper]

Well, true, the Marquette "brand" is percieved by many different groups.  In-state, out of state, alumni, fans, haters, media, academics, recruits, etc.

I agree that for most of those groups, few even know about these issues.

I was thinking more along the lines of athletics and recruits. 

6 months ago, Buzz could walk into a house and convince Mom that sending her pride and joy to Marquette would build character.  He'd give her son a great foundation for the rest of his life, tip his bottle over, do Sunday night "life lessons" and turn her son into a good man.

Buzz can still do that.  But the next college coach who walks into that living room will say "Oh, you're thinking about Marquette?  Great school, great school..." as he leaves a copy of the Chicago Tribune on her coffee table.

[MUMac]

Well, true, the Marquette "brand" is percieved by many different groups.  In-state, out of state, alumni, fans, haters, media, academics, recruits, etc.

I agree that for most of those groups, few even know about these issues.

I was thinking more along the lines of athletics and recruits. 

6 months ago, Buzz could walk into a house and convince Mom that sending her pride and joy to Marquette would build character.  He'd give her son a great foundation for the rest of his life, tip his bottle over, do Sunday night "life lessons" and turn her son into a good man.

Buzz can still do that.  But the next college coach who walks into that living room will say "Oh, you're thinking about Marquette?  Great school, great school..." as he leaves a copy of the Chicago Tribune on her coffee table.

Fairly or unfairly, that still happens.  It happenned in the case of Montreal Clark.  We lost a recruit because of that issue.  Other recruits and parents, that di not have the same effect. 

If Buzz knows it's out there, he can address it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Buzz can still do that.  But the next college coach who walks into that living room will say "Oh, you're thinking about Marquette?  Great school, great school..." as he leaves a copy of the Chicago Tribune on her coffee table.

And they'll read the article and then talk to Buzz about how he's sent 3 players to the NBA in the past 3 season, including 2 first round picks.

[bilsu]

I think that is a really stupid article. The title itself that Butler reaps $500 million is ridiculous. It would have cost Butler $500 million to buy all the equivalent press. What do you think Butler actually got out of the $500 million value of press? I suspect their donations increased some and maybe even their enrollment. They probably at best benefited a few million actual dollars from the publicity. Then the article goes on to say the players should be paid, if Butler is reaping $500 million. I have no doubt that a good sports team adds value to the university. I also think players are already paid. They get tuition, room and board, training facilities, tutors, coaching, etc. Also, do not forget all the free publicity they get for being on a sports team and I am sure using this writer's logic that that is worth millions of dollars for some players.

[Warrior3211]

newsflash - no one knows cares about the bad publicity outside of Wisconsin.  However, everyone knows about dwade, marquette makes the ncaas every year, and furnished capable NBA players.  

Fixed.

That's very true. As much as it hurts to say, nobody does care about the scandals that go on in Milwaukee sports in general. Which is probably a good thing for Marquette.  It's just like last year when Brewers pitcher Yovani Gallardo was robbed at gunpoint in a questionable neighborhood.  If that had been in a big market it would have blown up and reporters would dig into why Gallardo was in that neighborhood in the middle of the night, which is the same for this situation. Big time media not caring is helping Marquette..

[Skatastrophy]

+Sweet 16

The sexual assault allegations and subsequent fallout at MU were a blip on a blip on the radar screens of higher education and college athletics.

+1

The only place I heard about the allegations was from this forum.  I never even saw anything about it during normal consumption of local and national media sources. 

[bilsu]

newsflash - no one knows cares about the bad publicity outside of Wisconsin.  However, everyone knows about dwade, marquette makes the ncaas every year, and furnished capable NBA players. 

That's very true. As much as it hurts to say, nobody does care about the scandals that go on in Milwaukee sports in general. Which is probably a good thing for Marquette.  It's just like last year when Brewers pitcher Yovani Gallardo was robbed at gunpoint in a questionable neighborhood.  If that had been in a big market it would have blown up and reporters would dig into why Gallardo was in that neighborhood in the middle of the night, which is the same for this situation. Big time media not caring is helping Marquette.

My biggest worry about the bad press is the Chicago area. That is where a significant amount of the press was and that is where there is a significant amount of basketball talent. I see it hurting our recruiting in Illinois. Although our current team does not have any Illinois players on it, we do not want to be disadvantaged in any recruiting area that is as valuable as Chicago.

[Benny B]

My biggest worry about the bad press is the Chicago area. That is where a significant amount of the press was and that is where there is a significant amount of basketball talent. I see it hurting our recruiting in Illinois. Although our current team does not have any Illinois players on it, we do not want to be disadvantaged in any recruiting area that is as valuable as Chicago.

If I had to guess, I would estimate that a sizable number of Top 100 recruits are coming from backgrounds and/or neighborhoods where people don't necessarily look up to people who strictly adhere to the law, morals, ethics, standards, etc.  Frankly, most of these kids are going to be coming from families that - voluntarily or not - tolerate a lot of questionable activity and behavior in their community.  Some perhaps from families that know firsthand what it means to be accused  - wrongfully or not - or backed into a corner and will nevertheless empathize with others who have shared that experience.

The only thing the kids & their handlers care about is money.  A small fraction of parents care about education.  When's the last time you heard someone say "my five-star kid isn't going to __________ because that place is filled with shady folks."   If they did, places like Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma State, just about every SEC school, etc. would be competing in Division II.

Bottom line is this... a blip on a blip is an understatement.  This is a non-story that has been on life support since 48 hours after it broke.  There might be a sign of hope (for the journalists, any way) when the lawsuit is filed, but the story is as good as a vegetable... the only reason - incidentally - it won't die is because of Marquette's strict adherence to its own principles.

[bilsu]

I agree it is a blip and two years from now it will not matter. However, if it hurts recruiting for even one year it can have a longer effect on Buzz's success. That is hard to equate, because a poor recruiting year can lead to a great recruiitng year, if recruits see a greater opportunity play. Besides that does it effect Buzz's recruitng in another way. It could cause Buzz to be more restrictive in who he recruits and thus resulting in a smaller recruiting pool to get players from. The top 100 recruits coming from questionable back grounds my not rule out MU, but Buzz may be forced to rule them out. There is no way this publicity is a positive, but we will never really know how much it hurt our program.

[77ncaachamps]

I think Brand Jordan and Dwyane Wade have brought more attention to Marquette than a Sweet 16 run.

[wyzgy]

Fairly or unfairly, that still happens.  It happenned in the case of Montreal Clark.  We lost a recruit because of that issue.  Other recruits and parents, that di not have the same effect. 

If Buzz knows it's out there, he can address it.

and montreal told you that he was not coming to marquette because ...

[MerrittsMustache]

and montreal told you that he was not coming to marquette because ...

I think he meant that Clark's issues were brought up by a competing coach and a recruit decided against MU because of it.

[tower912]

So, are you actually claiming that MU lost a recruit because a different recruit, who never played, hell, was never even ENROLLED, may have committed a crime 1000 miles away from Marquette?!?   Shenanigans.    And if true, then the world is an odd place.   

[MerrittsMustache]

So, are you actually claiming that MU lost a recruit because a different recruit, who never played, hell, was never even ENROLLED, may have committed a crime 1000 miles away from Marquette?!?   Shenanigans.    And if true, then the world is an odd place.   

I'm not saying that but I believe that is what MUMac was saying. I also could have completely misinterpreted what he was saying.

[tower912]

Sorry.   I wasn't specific about whom I was referring to.   No offense to you intended.   

[bilsu]

Recruiting is a cut throat business and recruiters have to use negative tactics. Nice guys will finish last.

[MUMac]

and montreal told you that he was not coming to marquette because ...

Monterale was the reason, not the recruit who bypassed MU.

[MUMac]

I think he meant that Clark's issues were brought up by a competing coach and a recruit decided against MU because of it.

It was not the coach that was upset, but the parent. 

[MUMac]

So, are you actually claiming that MU lost a recruit because a different recruit, who never played, hell, was never even ENROLLED, may have committed a crime 1000 miles away from Marquette?!?   Shenanigans.    And if true, then the world is an odd place.    

Yes.  One of the parents was very upset about the involvement of an MU recruit.  Timing of the arrest could not have been worse either, in this situation.  

[dgies9156]

Ok, let's deal with both issues raised in these postings.

First, if it were not for basketball and the reputation our Warriors have developed in the past 45 years or so, our university would barely be known out of West Town, much less have the national reputation that we've developed. Our campus, the upgrades and new buildings, Campus Circle etc., all are at least in part a function of basketball. Many of our buildings were built with "Al Money" and the pride and attitude of our university is in part "Al" related.

When I was at MU, the student body was very geographically diverse. While we had our share of cheeseheads, we also had significant concerntrations of students from Pennsylavania, Massachusetts, New York, the Washington DC area and were beginning to make stronger in-roads in the South and West. Without basketball, which didn't I hope become the deciding factor, there is little doubt we would have the visibility to attract a geographically diverse student body.

I also suspect that our university is better for the basketball team. When Marquette put the five best players they could find on the floor -- many of whom were African American -- it signalled a willingness of the university to put our beliefs in action. I suspect some of the diversity and commitment to a broader, more reflective student body is the result of what our basketball program led in the 1960s and 1970s.

Second, the problems associated with certain young men who evidently took advantage of a relationship one or more of them had with a young lady are not to be scoffed at. But the fact is that we are insiders and watch this more closely than the market at large. Sure, if I'm from South Wayne, WI and the big city is Monroe, I'm probably frightened. But if I'm from a large city, I'm probably smart enough to take adequate precautions. Admittedly, Marquette made mistakes. But whether I'm idealistic or naive, I believe that Beliefs in Action means something and there was no deliberate attempt to avoid protecting women on campus. I suspect some things will change over time because of this and Marquette will be better for it, but we don't have something on the scale of the pedophilia crisis that affected the Church and those that equate the two are just unfair.

[GGGG]

Yes.  One of the parents was very upset about the involvement of an MU recruit.  Timing of the arrest could not have been worse either, in this situation.   

Really?  Despite the fact that his scholie offer was pulled immediately after his arrest???  That is very odd.

Did this recruit pan out where he eventually went?

[tower912]

Yes.  One of the parents was very upset about the involvement of an MU recruit.  Timing of the arrest could not have been worse either, in this situation.  

For the life of me, I do not get this.   How do the actions of a recruit who never enrolled, had his offer rescinded, never played a second, and did his stupid stuff 1000 miles away have an impact?    Sounds like a convenient excuse for a parent who wanted their son to go elsewhere.   

[Lennys Tap]

Yes.  One of the parents was very upset about the involvement of an MU recruit.  Timing of the arrest could not have been worse either, in this situation.  

A parent who would hold MU responsible for what a possible future player did 1000 miles from Milwaukee is a parent Marquette doesn't need to be involved with - I'd say we got lucky no matter how good the player was.

[bilsu]

For the life of me, I do not get this.   How do the actions of a recruit who never enrolled, had his offer rescinded, never played a second, and did his stupid stuff 1000 miles away have an impact?    Sounds like a convenient excuse for a parent who wanted their son to go elsewhere.   

I stated before that the recent events do not mean much to potential recruits. However, it can and does matter to parents (mostly mothers). You have to remember what Buzz's mantra is. He basically preaches about God and some recruits' parents really like that. It certainly has stated that Taylor's mother wanted him to play for Buzz. However, he originally went to Oklahoma and now is transferring to MU. When this stuff happens within the basketball program, whether it is Buzz's fault or not, it makes him look like a hypocrite. It would not surprise me at all to see Taylor change his mind if this becomes a big deal to his mother.

[MUMac]

For the life of me, I do not get this.   How do the actions of a recruit who never enrolled, had his offer rescinded, never played a second, and did his stupid stuff 1000 miles away have an impact?    Sounds like a convenient excuse for a parent who wanted their son to go elsewhere.   

Father and son wanted MU.  Mother put the kibosh on it after this happenned.  It really bothered her.  Buzz did was not aware of the pull the mother had.  Focused on the son and father as the father was the lead in the recruitment.  Mother had more of the decision making than Buzz believed.

For Sultan, the kid started 2/3 of the games this year.  Would have helped MU.  He was a top 100 (in most top 75) ranked prospect.  Also, I mentioned the timing of it all being poor for MU.  MU had less than 1 week before it all blew up.  As I mentioned, Buzz focused on the father - the mother was the key.  She was silent in the background - but obviously had the ability to pull the "kill switch".

[MerrittsMustache]

Father and son wanted MU.  Mother put the kibosh on it after this happenned.  It really bothered her.  Buzz did was not aware of the pull the mother had.  Focused on the son and father as the father was the lead in the recruitment.  Mother had more of the decision making than Buzz believed.

For Sultan, the kid started 2/3 of the games this year.  Would have helped MU.  He was a top 100 (in most top 75) ranked prospect.  Also, I mentioned the timing of it all being poor for MU.  MU had less than 1 week before it all blew up.  As I mentioned, Buzz focused on the father - the mother was the key.  She was silent in the background - but obviously had the ability to pull the "kill switch".

What exactly was the specific problem that the mother had with the situation? Just the fact that a Marquette recruit was arrested, despite the fact that he never even enrolled in MU and had his scholarship rescinded? That doesn't really make any sense.

[MUMac]

What exactly was the specific problem that the mother had with the situation? Just the fact that a Marquette recruit was arrested, despite the fact that he never even enrolled in MU and had his scholarship rescinded? That doesn't really make any sense.

It does not need to make sense to you.  Only to the mother, father and son.  To them, it made sense.

[MerrittsMustache]

It does not need to make sense to you.  Only to the mother, father and son.  To them, it made sense.

I honestly don't see how it makes sense to anyone.

[Skatastrophy]

I honestly don't see how it makes sense to anyone.

You're just packaging the facts.  You're not thinking about how an enemy recruiter could package the situation.  Emotional arguments are stronger than logical ones with some people in certain situations.

[Lennys Tap]

When this stuff happens within the basketball program, whether it is Buzz's fault or not, it makes him look like a hypocrite. It would not surprise me at all to see Taylor change his mind if this becomes a big deal to his mother.

If Buzz continues to recruit Monterale Clark after his arrest or if he engages in a cover up of the October or February incidents he IS a hypocrite. He didn't. I'll repeat, if a parent blames a coach for what a potential future player does 1000 miles from Milwaukee, MU dodged a bullet. That parent is bound to be a problem down the line.

[MerrittsMustache]

You're just packaging the facts.  You're not thinking about how an enemy recruiter could package the situation.  Emotional arguments are stronger than logical ones with some people in certain situations.

Well put. I didn't really think of it that way (obviously). It would be very easy for a recruiter to say, "That's the type of player that Buzz/MU recruits."

[bilsu]

You also have to try to look at it from a woman's view point. There are a lot of women out there that believe they have been used by men. The result is they have trouble trusting men and they want their son to be coached by someone they feel they can trust. Anything that shakes that trust, whether real or not, is a problem. I do not blame Buzz for Clark, but I can see how that could have been an issue. Women see things differently then men. When I am the first one to work, I unlock both doors. Some of the women when they get here first will not unlock the doors, if they are by themselves. I feel totally safe, while they seem to live their life in fear. Do not expect women to think about the recent events the same as we do.

[BubbaWilliams]

Im glad we didn't get Monterale Clark. He was, in fact, a better basketball player than he was a person. There is no room for that on Buzz's squad.

[Skatastrophy]

Im glad we didn't get Monterale Clark. He was, in fact, a better basketball player than he was a person. There is no room for that on Buzz's squad.

Right... which is something we all agree upon.   The problem is that Buzz got associated with what Clark did so we ended up losing out on another top-100 recruit because of Clark's actions.

[BubbaWilliams]

Right... which is something we all agree upon.   The problem is that Buzz got associated with what Clark did so we ended up losing out on another top-100 recruit because of Clark's actions.

While that does suck, I think the people on this website are going to be the only ones who remember this incident in a few years... At least I hope so

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think that is a really stupid article. The title itself that Butler reaps $500 million is ridiculous. It would have cost Butler $500 million to buy all the equivalent press. What do you think Butler actually got out of the $500 million value of press? I suspect their donations increased some and maybe even their enrollment. They probably at best benefited a few million actual dollars from the publicity. Then the article goes on to say the players should be paid, if Butler is reaping $500 million. I have no doubt that a good sports team adds value to the university. I also think players are already paid. They get tuition, room and board, training facilities, tutors, coaching, etc. Also, do not forget all the free publicity they get for being on a sports team and I am sure using this writer's logic that that is worth millions of dollars for some players.

You failed to mention the lasting impact it will have for the next 10 years.

500 millions dollars worth of advertising for Butler has an immeasurable impact on the school.

If you have any doubts, watch the ESPN 30 for 30 about "The U". Athletics can put a school on the map (for better or for worse).

[brewcity77]

As far as this mystery recruit, at what cost would we have taken him? Would we have passed on Jae Crowder, the late-committing JUCO? Or Davante Gardner, the late-committing 3-star prospect? Possibly we wouldn't have had room for Jamil Wilson? I find it hard to believe we would have sent either Vander Blue or Jamail Jones packing. I suppose the casualty might have been Reggie Smith, but in terms of rankings, he was higher rated than Crowder or Gardner.

Either way, it's the past, and I'm very happy with our 2010 class.

[GGGG]

brew...this was September '09 when this took place.  My guess is that we wouldn't have had Gardner if this guy comes here.