MU Frosh splits time between class and jail?

[MUinCO]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/124031914.html

"Madeline Kudlata will split her time between Marquette University and a jail cell as punishment for killing her best friend and classmate in a rollover crash last September." 

Not sure how I feel about this one...she's found guilty and is sentenced to jail time as the crash involved a DUI and attempt to hide the evidence.  I would have expected MU to rescind its admission offer to Ms. Kudlata.  Has MU come out with a position on this one?  Is there more to the story?

[JWags85]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/124031914.html

"Madeline Kudlata will split her time between Marquette University and a jail cell as punishment for killing her best friend and classmate in a rollover crash last September." 

Not sure how I feel about this one...she's found guilty and is sentenced to jail time as the crash involved a DUI and attempt to hide the evidence.  I would have expected MU to rescind its admission offer to Ms. Kudlata.  Has MU come out with a position on this one?  Is there more to the story?

She actually is from my hometown and went to HS with my younger sisters.  Its an incredibly sad story.  As I understand it, they were coming home in the morning from a party, she was speeding, swerved, the car flipped and Sydney was ejected from the car.  However, it wasn't a DUI, as the article says neither girl had alcohol in their system.  As for the hiding evidence, I believe there was an open bottle of liquor that she attempted to dispose of, and obviously wasn't successful.

The part of the story thats sad is how she is being portrayed.  Both girls were partiers.  Not that they were out of control, problem childs, but they were very social and had been caught drinking before (by parents, not police).  But since the incident, Madeline has been painted by the deceased parents to be a reckless monster who their daughter got caught up with.  Its an incredible sad situation, and she deserves punishment to be sure, but the quest for vengeance by Sydney's parent's at Madeline's expense is rubbing alot of people the wrong way, or so I hear from my family.

As far as rescinding her admission, I would be disappointed if Marquette did that.  Its horribly tragic and unfortunate that someone passed away, but if this was just someone speeding and getting in an accident and a reckless driving citation, it would be a moot point.  It isn't a DUI and the only reason the case got pushed forward was at the request of the family to proceed further.

[Skatastrophy]

A young lady is paying her debt to society by spending time in jail.  I see no reason to keep her from going to college as well.

[Sir Lawrence]

The saddest part to me is that the decedent wasn't wearing her seat belt.  The way vehicles are designed now, if you stay in the car, you will usually survive.  Most of the deaths are because of getting thrown out of the car because of no seat belt. 

[Hards Alumni]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/124031914.html

"Madeline Kudlata will split her time between Marquette University and a jail cell as punishment for killing her best friend and classmate in a rollover crash last September." 

Not sure how I feel about this one...she's found guilty and is sentenced to jail time as the crash involved a DUI and attempt to hide the evidence.  I would have expected MU to rescind its admission offer to Ms. Kudlata.  Has MU come out with a position on this one?  Is there more to the story?

I guess you haven't heard of the Christian value of forgiveness?  People deserve second chances.

[MUinCO]

Yes, no alcohol but traces of marijuana...evidence of illegal drug use, but apparently not enough to trigger a DUI?  Also, I kind of have trouble getting past the tossing of evidence bit and apparently her decision to continue partying after the accident.  There were a lot of lapses in judgment with this girl, a heck of a lot more than just simple speeding, all leading up to a conviction and jail time.

I see your point, a successful kid with no record, making an incredibly bad decision, and offered a golden 2nd chance with MU still allowing her to register.  Also, I totally agree “people deserve second chances,” but I would have totally understood if MU said...with bad decisions come repercussions we are personally responsible for… so finish your jail time, community service, and re-apply…then decide if she is worthy of a second chance.  I guess I’m still kind of on the fence with this decision; though, point is moot, apparently she is registering…hope she makes the most of this second chance.

Sad story indeed, thanks for the background on her story.

[avid1010]

If an incoming recruit would have done the same would they be at MU next year?  I sometimes think it's interesting to see who does/does not get second chances.  I don't have enough information to judge, but if she continues to party after the accident I have to question if she just waisted her second chance.  I don't see an excuse for her to drink until 21 or ever smoke again.

[MUinCO]

If an incoming recruit would have done the same would they be at MU next year?  I sometimes think it's interesting to see who does/does not get second chances.  I don't have enough information to judge, but if she continues to party after the accident I have to question if she just waisted her second chance.  I don't see an excuse for her to drink until 21 or ever smoke again.

That's kind of what I was thinking, many on this board and elsewhere criticize other universities for admitting athletes with criminal records (myself included) and this one involved loss of life.  Here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here (forget 2nd chances), yet she gets an admit.   I'm still really curious how MU approached this one... maybe they sat down with her and determined her resolve to make amends?  Her staying in MU a condition of her plea deal?

[karavotsos]

Yes, no alcohol but traces of marijuana...evidence of illegal drug use, but apparently not enough to trigger a DUI? 

Marijuana stays in the system for weeks after use, so just because it was in the girl's system at the time of the accident does not mean she was intoxicated at the time of the accident. 

[Hards Alumni]

The real takeaway message should be WEAR A FLIPPING SEATBELT.

[karavotsos]

I would say its something more like children lead you back to prayer.

[Brewtown Andy]

I'm curious about the technical aspect of this sentence.  Is she going to be a commuter student, commuting between an Ozaukee County jail cell and MU, or is she going to be living in the halls and returning to incarceration during breaks?

[foreverwarriors]

I'm curious about the technical aspect of this sentence.  Is she going to be a commuter student, commuting between an Ozaukee County jail cell and MU, or is she going to be living in the halls and returning to incarceration during breaks?

She's from mequon but the accident occurred in mke county, so she'll beheld at a mke county lockup

[gjreda]

She's from mequon but the accident occurred in mke county, so she'll beheld at a mke county lockup

From the article:

Though the incident occurred in Milwaukee, Martens allowed Kudlata to serve her jail time in Ozaukee County.

[foreverwarriors]

From the article:

Hah...this is what not reading the article and saying things based on my own knowledge of the incident gets me

[tower912]

Looks like MU believes in giving second chances and the power of redemption, even if you are not a D1 basketball prospect.   This isn't about Buzz dragging down the reputation of MU, this is what about the nature of forgiveness and the core of our faith.  (if we have one)

[MUinCO]

I'm curious about the technical aspect of this sentence.  Is she going to be a commuter student, commuting between an Ozaukee County jail cell and MU, or is she going to be living in the halls and returning to incarceration during breaks?

The other interesting aspect of her probation is that she remain "sober." If probation is 5 years that means sobriety for her entire time at MU. Maybe there's a more technical legal definition, but I take that to mean a simple tweet/FB post of beer touching this one's lips could make the case she's not and put her back in the slammer. She'll have to display a whole new level of discipline she's apparently never exercised in her life.

She makes it, (in addition to jail, restitution, and community service) maybe she earned chance #2. Now getting a job after graduation with a record...not sure how that's going to work out.

[jsglow]

From my perspective, the young lady deserves a chance.  I hope the motto "Come as you are, leave transformed" applies here.  Condolences to all involved in this tragic situation.

[Jay Bee]

The other interesting aspect of her probation is that she remain "sober." If probation is 5 years that means sobriety for her entire time at MU. Maybe there's a more technical legal definition, but I take that to mean a simple tweet/FB post of beer touching this one's lips could make the case she's not and put her back in the slammer. She'll have to display a whole new level of discipline she's apparently never exercised in her life.

Don't know about that.  Only would be true if they wanted to enforce that provision.  If she checks into jail after drinking, then there will be problems.. but, millions of people have violated this very common probation provision and not been 'put back in the slammer'.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

4never spends time at Ethan Allen school for boys, but just for the hell of it...

[martyconlonontherun]

That's kind of what I was thinking, many on this board and elsewhere criticize other universities for admitting athletes with criminal records (myself included) and this one involved loss of life.  Here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here (forget 2nd chances), yet she gets an admit.   I'm still really curious how MU approached this one... maybe they sat down with her and determined her resolve to make amends?  Her staying in MU a condition of her plea deal?

The HUGE difference is that she is not getting her education paid for like scholarship athletes. So, yes, they should be held to a high standard. Also, I'm cool with a recruit being given a second chance as long as the offense happened before he got the scholarship. Once he is on the scholarship, he needs to up hold it.

Maybe I have a different opinion from you guys, but I feel a scholarship is a privilege while just being a student should be allowed to everyone no matter what. An educated person is better than a non-educated person.

[Jay Bee]

Maybe I have a different opinion from you guys, but I feel a scholarship is a privilege while just being a student should be allowed to everyone no matter what.

I'm not speaking about this matter in particular, but we do have a different opinion - 'just being a student' should not be allowed to everyone no matter what.  It's a school by school decision that should be made.  Do you think universities should have a 100% acceptance rate?  Schools need to use information to determine who to accept and who not to... not only do I think considering a felony conviction is reasonable for a university to do, but I think considering grades and such 'silly things' as high school extra-curricular activity is reasonable to consider as well.

Here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here (forget 2nd chances), yet she gets an admit.

You'd be terminated for negligent operation of a vehicle that resulted in your best friend dying? 
 

[mu_hilltopper]

The real takeaway message should be WEAR A FLIPPING SEATBELT.

+10000000

[MUinCO]

You'd be terminated for negligent operation of a vehicle that resulted in your best friend dying? 
 

Hmmm, let me think about that... After rolling my vehicle driving too fast for conditions, police find open containers of alcohol in the car (evidence they just I caught me trying to dispose of), and while I'm not DUI, they find marijuana in my system. End up pleading no contest to negligent homicide and get sentenced to a year in jail.

I don't know where you work, but I'm pretty sure if all this applied me...I'm fired...and likely never allowed back into my career field ever again.

See, if this was only about negligent operation of a vehicle, I'd say no problem, but the disposing of evidence and continuing to party after really makes me question her integrity. That being said, I'd probably would give her a second chance...I would just do it after she's successfully paid her debt to society first.

[GGGG]

I see no harm whatsoever in MU letting her take classes.  Doesn't tarnish MU's image or anything.  Not a big deal.

And the analogy of a workplace is a false one.  When you are working, you are collecting a salary...you are paid representative of your employer.  When you are a student, you are a customer...purchasing a service.  Allowing those in jail to purchase your service is essentially harmless to MU, and can actually be helpful to both the criminal and society at large.

Waiting until she serves her sentence just delays to when she can contribute back to society.

[Jay Bee]

See, if this was only about negligent operation of a vehicle, I'd say no problem, but the disposing of evidence and continuing to party after really makes me question her integrity. That being said, I'd probably would give her a second chance...I would just do it after she's successfully paid her debt to society first.

So your answer to my question is actually 'no'.  Got it. 

However, your issue is that she allegedly (and was never convicted of..) was emptying bottles of booze (even though she hadn't drank a drop) and she subsequently partied after the death of her friend...

If you want universities to kick out kids for doing things that makes you 'question their integrity', good luck. 

By the way, reread your posts.. you said, "here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here "... so your new commentary on subsequent partying isn't relevant to your initial claim...

[MUinCO]

By the way, reread your posts.. you said, "here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here "... so your new commentary on subsequent partying isn't relevant to your initial claim...

Not trying to make a new argument, just saying the combination of all the facts before (her reputation as a party girl), during (what she did that night), and after (party more)...all paint a picture of a kid I may not want representing my university. While we're "customers" we are a community and the actions of a few sure can reflect badly on the rest of us.

I can agree with folks here not having a problem admitting her immediately and there might be more to her story I'm missing too. MU admissions is in a better position to judge than me so now I'm just going to trust their judgement and wish this girl the best.

[JWags85]

So your answer to my question is actually 'no'.  Got it. 

However, your issue is that she allegedly (and was never convicted of..) was emptying bottles of booze (even though she hadn't drank a drop) and she subsequently partied after the death of her friend...

If you want universities to kick out kids for doing things that makes you 'question their integrity', good luck. 

By the way, reread your posts.. you said, "here's someone engaging in behavior that would have been grounds for immediate job termination for most of us here "... so your new commentary on subsequent partying isn't relevant to your initial claim...

Continuing to play Devil's Advocate here, while I'm not condoning the emptying of booze bottles, you keep bringing up disposing as evidence like she was wiping down a handgun or throwing evidence in a river.  I'm pretty sure 90% of kids would have done the exact same thing.  If you were, at age 17, driving and smoking a cigarette and were pulled over and tossed the cigarette/pack out the window, you're guilty of the same thing, just saying.

As far as the partying claim, that was something from her parents.  I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe there were posted pictures of her drinking or whatnot on Facebook.  It could have easily shown her out with friends.  If thats "partying", so be it, I don't expect the girl to be a hermit.

Tell me this, if she was just going 85 in a 65 and this accident and outcome occurred, what would your feelings on the situation be?

[Benny B]

Not trying to make a new argument, just saying the combination of all the facts before (her reputation as a party girl), during (what she did that night), and after (party more)...all paint a picture of a kid I may not want representing my university. While we're "customers" we are a community and the actions of a few sure can reflect badly on the rest of us.

Unfortunately, what you have stated as representative of your university above could also be representative of 99% of universities across the nation.

Kids party, period... always have, always will.  Kids today are different on one thing, however... they're very, very good about skirting responsibility and covering their six (even when some of the dumb ones do videotape themselves).  So if that's not the type of student you want at MU, good luck competing with BYU for the several hundred kids in the entire country that actually fit the mold.

[MUinCO]

Tell me this, if she was just going 85 in a 65 and this accident and outcome occurred, what would your feelings on the situation be?

Can't say I disagree with all that you are saying there.  True, it was not like she wiped down a handgun, but it all was serious enough for the DA to consider putting her away for 25 years...before further review got them to her current sentence (prison, service, etc.).

I guess seeing a newspaper headline that my alma was admitting someone with a conviction/jail time (not because she is a partier, yes we all know college kids party) made me a little uncomfortable to tell you the truth (is this saying something about the quality of kids we admit).  The more I think about it though…and listen to you all…maybe it is simply not MU’s place to punish.  The state is taking care of the punishment part and she will have to live with that, and with the weight of her friend’s passing.

There was more to her story (and I thank you all for the background), but I was really curious about was how MU approached her/this situation.  The press surrounding this had to have gotten someone’s attention.  Did they have a sit down with her or just go hands off, did someone call in a favor?  I bet someone here has the scoop on that bit.

[MUinCO]

Unfortunately, what you have stated as representative of your university above could also be representative of 99% of universities across the nation.

Kids party, period... always have, always will.  Kids today are different on one thing, however... they're very, very good about skirting responsibility and covering their six (even when some of the dumb ones do videotape themselves).  So if that's not the type of student you want at MU, good luck competing with BYU for the several hundred kids in the entire country that actually fit the mold.

No, you are taking my comment out of context.  Yes, we know college kids party, but I'm willing to bet 99% don't have the county lockup as their freshman dorm either.  

[Hards Alumni]

Can't say I disagree with all that you are saying there.  True, it was not like she wiped down a handgun, but it all was serious enough for the DA to consider putting her away for 25 years...before further review got them to her current sentence (prison, service, etc.).

I guess seeing a newspaper headline that my alma was admitting someone with a conviction/jail time (not because she is a partier, yes we all know college kids party) made me a little uncomfortable to tell you the truth (is this saying something about the quality of kids we admit).  The more I think about it though…and listen to you all…maybe it is simply not MU’s place to punish.  The state is taking care of the punishment part and she will have to live with that, and with the weight of her friend’s passing.

There was more to her story (and I thank you all for the background), but I was really curious about was how MU approached her/this situation.  The press surrounding this had to have gotten someone’s attention.  Did they have a sit down with her or just go hands off, did someone call in a favor?  I bet someone here has the scoop on that bit.

DA's typically go for the harshest penalty allowable by law.  Judges decide sentences for a reason. 

[MUinCO]

DA's typically go for the harshest penalty allowable by law.  Judges decide sentences for a reason. 

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Ari Gold]

Apparently Cura Personalis means "It's cool, you can still come even if you kill your friends"

I give her 2 weeks before shes caught breaking probation at some house party on Renee Row.

[Benny B]

Apparently Cura Personalis means "It's cool, you can still come even if you kill your friends"

I give her 2 weeks before shes caught breaking probation at some house party on Renee Row.

Sometimes, life doesn't work out as if it seems it should; however, just give it time... the cards will fall into place eventually.
 -or-
[Thread hijack via pun alert]
The Cards will fall into last place eventually.

[PBRme]

If an incoming recruit would have done the same would they be at MU next year?  I sometimes think it's interesting to see who does/does not get second chances.  I don't have enough information to judge, but if she continues to party after the accident I have to question if she just waisted her second chance.  I don't see an excuse for her to drink until 21 or ever smoke again.

Damien Saunders

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Jesus Christ -- give the girl a break.

Former First Lady Laura Bush killed a guy in high school in a car accident. No matter what your politics, you'd be hard pressed to say she didn't turn out OK. Accidents happen. Kids are stupid.

[wyzgy]

A young lady is paying her debt to society by spending time in jail.  I see no reason to keep her from going to college as well.

no one is denying her a college education.  you can get that if you were a full timer.  the question is if mu should have continued to extend it's acceptance to her after her conviction.  i'e. the huber method

[Ari Gold]

Jesus Christ -- give the girl a break.

Former First Lady Laura Bush killed a guy in high school in a car accident. No matter what your politics, you'd be hard pressed to say she didn't turn out OK. Accidents happen. Kids are stupid.

JESUS CHRIST that accident was in unnatural carnal knowledgeing 1963. a lot of factors of the day played into that crash (car safety, street laps).  Laura didn't have pot in her system or alcohol in the car... this girl from mequon did.

Get off your unnatural carnal knowledgeing soap box and stop trying to make connections that arent there. thats what the daily kos is for

[JWags85]

  Laura didn't have pot in her system or alcohol in the car... this girl from mequon did.

Neither of which had any effect, from a legal perspective, on the accident...unless you think Marquette shouldn't admit anyone who had an underage drinking ticket in HS.

[Hards Alumni]

JESUS CHRIST that accident was in fracking 1963. a lot of factors of the day played into that crash (car safety, street laps).  Laura didn't have pot in her system or alcohol in the car... this girl from mequon did.

Get off your fracking soap box and stop trying to make connections that arent there. thats what the daily kos is for

I'm not sure why 1963 is relevant.  A lot of factor play into every crash (like the more recent girl DECIDING not to wear a seatbelt). 

Laura was drunk, this girl wasn't.  Just because you test positive for pot in your system doesn't mean you had it that day... soooooo uhhhhh....

You're right, this is totally just PRN trying to make connections that aren't there.  I mean, if you keep your hands over your ears, and your eyes shut tight and sing, "lalalala".  Then maybe.

[wyzgy]

Jesus Christ -- give the girl a break.

Former First Lady Laura Bush killed a guy in high school in a car accident. No matter what your politics, you'd be hard pressed to say she didn't turn out OK. Accidents happen. Kids are stupid.

is laura bush coming to marquette too??  well then...