Futbol Talk

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Mostly Colombian crowd as expected. This game is gonna be so much fun.

[BM1090]

Mostly Colombian crowd as expected. This game is gonna be so much fun.

Was gonna go after tickets dropped to 35 on Stubhub. Rain scared me away. Should have gone. Damn.

[MU82]

I thought this was a really good read about youth development. It's insightful.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/tds-qa-with-akron-coach-jared-embick_aid39134

I thought it was an interesting read, Hank. Thanks for providing.

From my outsider's perspective, I have been hearing about U.S. soccer "getting ready to break out" or "coming of age" for four decades now. As a curious teen who was enthralled with sports superstars, I even watched a few Cosmos games  during the Pele-Chignalia-Beckenbauer era.

Forty years later, however, I see few signs that the "breakout" is imminent. Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

And then the national team shows up for a competition like this and doesn't even attempt a single shot toward the goal. And some apologists say, hey, it was expected, the team already accomplished what it needed to.

All righty then ... if that's true, I admit I will never understand it.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The most frustrating thing is that Colombia was the better team for 40 minutes of that half. Except Cuadrado, man has he sucked this entire tournament. Maybe I'm over valuing him.

[Golden Avalanche]

I thought it was an interesting read, Hank. Thanks for providing.

From my outsider's perspective, I have been hearing about U.S. soccer "getting ready to break out" or "coming of age" for four decades now. As a curious teen who was enthralled with sports superstars, I even watched a few Cosmos games  during the Pele-Chignalia-Beckenbauer era.

Forty years later, however, I see few signs that the "breakout" is imminent. Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

And then the national team shows up for a competition like this and doesn't even attempt a single shot toward the goal. And some apologists say, hey, it was expected, the team already accomplished what it needed to.

All righty then ... if that's true, I admit I will never understand it.

Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

[Golden Avalanche]

The most frustrating thing is that Colombia was the better team for 40 minutes of that half. Except Cuadrado, man has he sucked this entire tournament. Maybe I'm over valuing him.

You meaning the first half or the second half?

If it's the former, I'd have to disagree. Chile's first 20 minutes they were rampant. Colombia was very, very good the last 15 minutes.

If it's the latter, I'd agree. I thought Colombia was better on balance when they lost Sanchez and even though the game was open for much of the second half I didn't think Chile was exploiting the space like they did in the first.

[WarriorInNYC]

Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

Solid post.  I do want to point out though that the USA has won elimination games since 2009, but those have been Gold Cup matches, which are not always the greatest of competitions depending on the teams you face.

And to add:  FIFA rankings as of 6/2/16:  USA 31

Lose to #3 Colombia 2-0
Beat #23 Costa Rica 4-0
Beat #44 Paraguay 1-0
Beat #13 Ecuador 2-1
Lose to #1 Argentina 4-0

[WarriorInNYC]

Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

The US sports consumers are definitely catching up.  So is attendance at MLS games across the country.  The TV viewership is increasing slowly, but its definitely on its way up.

[mu03eng]

Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

This is example 1 on the elitist snobbery that keeps casual fans from joining the conversation and becoming real fans. Whether MU82 is "educated" about the sport or not, he's here for the conversation...you don't have to talk to him as if he's some random idiot that wonder in out of the dark.

Additionally, while you may have knowledge of the game and an opportunity to share your opinion/analyst it does not make it correct. The US has improved in areas, but it's only relative to the 3rd tier of national teams, they are not yet ready nor showing significant signs of being able to compete consistently at the top tier. At least 50% of the teams in the Euros right now would beat the US more often then not. Just because we can get wins over top teams with modified bunker ball doesn't mean the quality is there. Overall the US team's first touch is dreadful and typically need at least yard of space to do anything productive. Things like speed of play are just not improving with the US team and until they do so this team will not truly move into the 1st tier internationally.

[Henry Sugar]

I don't think the US had a very good Copa. Yeah, they made the semis, but I really think a lot of that is due to luck. For quantity and quality, the US was bad.

In the Costa Rica game, the US had a finishing rate of 80%. Against Paraguay, they put two shots on target and finished one (50%). Against Ecuador, it was four shots with two finished (50%). All of those are great but won't last in the long run. It's not nearly enough shots on target, as evidenced by the US being the worst team in the tournament at shot quality.

What did they do well in comparison to the other teams? They finished their chances at a higher rate than expected and had some good goalkeeping. Luck and good goalkeeping.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You meaning the first half or the second half?

If it's the former, I'd have to disagree. Chile's first 20 minutes they were rampant. Colombia was very, very good the last 15 minutes.

If it's the latter, I'd agree. I thought Colombia was better on balance when they lost Sanchez and even though the game was open for much of the second half I didn't think Chile was exploiting the space like they did in the first.

The only reason Chile had so many chances in the first 15 minutes is because Colombia was playing a stupidly high line trying to draw them offside. It burned then twice, the second time it also didn't help that Arias got shoved while trying to play the ball but didn't get any sort of call.

How did that 2nd Sanchez yellow look on TV? From were I was sitting, it looked as though it was a terrible dive and it shouldn't have even been a foul, let alone a yellow.

[brewcity77]

The US sports consumers are definitely catching up.  So is attendance at MLS games across the country.  The TV viewership is increasing slowly, but its definitely on its way up.

It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.

[Coleman]

It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.

I don't think soccer will ever displace the NFL or NBA, and probably not MLB either.

I could see it on par with the the NHL in about 10 years, with smaller, but more rabid, fan bases than the other 3 major league sports.

[WarriorInNYC]

It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.

Exactly.  As the current generation continues to get older.....

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/6/us-soccer-americaasmainstreamsportfifaworldcup.html

"MLS is not the only soccer that American fans follow. For 12-to-24-year-olds, soccer is the second-most-popular professional sport, behind only football and above basketball, baseball and hockey. "

[MU82]

Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

OK, wonderful.

We're No. 31. Rah-rah-rah!

See you in 2056. Maybe we'll be in the top 20 by then.

I'll leave you or others to get the last word on America's place in The Beautiful Game. I won't bother your sensitive soccer sensibilities any more here.

(mu03eng: Thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it.)

[brewcity77]

OK, wonderful.

We're No. 31. Rah-rah-rah!

See you in 2056. Maybe we'll be in the top 20 by then.

Not everyone is a fan. I'm fine with that. The landscape is changing and the beauty of our sports options is that you can take in whatever you like. If it's soccer, so be it. If not, so be it.

That said...don't put much, rather any, stock in the FIFA rankings. We are usually ranked in the 10-20 range, but have been as high as 3 before the disastrous 2006 World Cup. Those rankings will always overrate Euro and South American teams and are rarely indicative of how good teams actually are. That we were able to scam our way up to #3 ever is just as ridiculous as our current ranking behind powerhouses Costa Rica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Northern Ireland (among others) is kind of silly.

[Golden Avalanche]

This is example 1 on the elitist snobbery that keeps casual fans from joining the conversation and becoming real fans. Whether MU82 is "educated" about the sport or not, he's here for the conversation...you don't have to talk to him as if he's some random idiot that wonder in out of the dark.

Cry me a river. There are people on this forum, including you, who are "elitist" and "snobs" when basketball is discussed. It happens in every sport.

And he didn't come for "conversation". He posted once about fighting amongst fans in Europe and then posted about how he'd rather poke his eyes out then watch soccer. Makes a completely ignorant comment that people don't watch the sport on television when even a village idiot paying scant attention the last five years would know eyeballs are attracted to the game.

He's an archetypal 58 year old guy who misses the easy sports culture of his youth and doesn't get why this pansy version of kickball is talked about when there are games in which teams can't get even get one shot on goal. Prefers to literally be blind then watch and learn about a "sport" where you can't use your hands. And he takes joy in playing people like you as a fool when he writes "oh, help me learn" then gets a wonderful article from Henry Sugar only to then provide the ignorant, snarky, and snide comments I alluded to earlier. It's a tired joker move.

[Golden Avalanche]

Solid post.  I do want to point out though that the USA has won elimination games since 2009, but those have been Gold Cup matches, which are not always the greatest of competitions depending on the teams you face.

And to add:  FIFA rankings as of 6/2/16:  USA 31

Lose to #3 Colombia 2-0
Beat #23 Costa Rica 4-0
Beat #44 Paraguay 1-0
Beat #13 Ecuador 2-1
Lose to #1 Argentina 4-0

Correctly noted on the Gold Cup. At this point, I tend to not look at the Gold Cup mostly because of the lackluster competition. I find its a level they can achieve even with substandard squads.

[Golden Avalanche]

The only reason Chile had so many chances in the first 15 minutes is because Colombia was playing a stupidly high line trying to draw them offside. It burned then twice, the second time it also didn't help that Arias got shoved while trying to play the ball but didn't get any sort of call.

How did that 2nd Sanchez yellow look on TV? From were I was sitting, it looked as though it was a terrible dive and it shouldn't have even been a foul, let alone a yellow.

It was a foul but not near a booking. Sanchez got hurt since his style is that of a big and beefy bodyguard. Following the two hour delay, perhaps the referee took a harder view of the pace and thought he was being reckless when he wasn't. 

[Lionel Messi]

no más

[brewcity77]

So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.

[GGGG]

So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.

Claude Puel was named Southampton manager.

[brewcity77]

Claude Puel was named Southampton manager.

I just can't believe he's being mentioned for anything bigger right now. Feels very Klinsmannesque...he will have the team looking terrible for ages, then pop up with a result or two and suddenly he's hot again and all is forgiven. Worked in Brazil, those two friendly wins in Europe over the Dutch and Deutsch, and now Copa. Suddenly the Gold Cup, the marginal qualifying, the defensive instability is all forgotten.

[mu03eng]

So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.

I heartedly agree with your assessment.

[brewcity77]

Lots of talk that England has been in talks with Jurgen Klinsmann this weekend about their vacant manager position. Per the Daily Mirror, USA Soccer will not block a move for Klinsmann. Now bear in mind, most of this is from Twitter reports and the Mirror is known as a tabloid, but this does seem to have some legs. Be interesting to see who would be next in line. My guess is Klinsmann would take Andi Herzog with him, possibly Tab Ramos or Jason Kreis as interim manager with the NT targeting either a return for Arena or Bradley, or possibly looking at a MLS coach like Peter Vermes.