Bradley Center / MU

[StillAWarrior]

The Bradley Center hasn't had the largest crowd in Wisconsin to watch a basketball game since Crean left.

Clearly you're better at this than I am.  Well done.

[eroc830]

I have not lived lived in Milwaukee for quite a few years and was just wondering IF the Bucks left would there be a threat to the bars/restaurants etc. in the area staying afloat.....or are they pretty self sufficient without the 40 or more Bucks games a year?

There would be a few bars such as Major Goolsbys and Buck Bradleys that I think would take decent hits that could threaten their viability.  I know when I looked at renting a party room at Buck Bradley's this past year the first thing they look at is the BC schedule to see how busy they will be.  But I don't think you would see 10 bars and restaurants right by the BC gone within a year just because the Bucks are gone even though it would touch thier bottom line.

[Benny B]

So what do you do with the other 200 nights a year?

Spanish O'Donnells, in concert!  200 nights only!  Get your tickets now!

[Benny B]

I'll disagree with you here.  LA and most of the West Coast doesn't have the desire to have sports teams like the midwest.  In the midwest during fall and winter there is a LOT less to do.  It isn't a complex, its the fact that if the Bucks leave there is just one less thing to do/watch/talk about in town.  It isn't as if Milwaukee residents can walk to the beach in January to have a little fun.

I agree with the weather factor, but also consider:

*The North Stars left Minnesota in 1993.  The NHL didn't return to the state until the NHL was nearly irrelevant.

*Milwaukee - despite having built a hockey arena on spec - has never had an NHL franchise... wasn't even considered a contender in the last couple expansions.

*Indiana has an NBA team that has twice in the past five years posted the worst attendance in the league.  It hasn't been better than the 4th worst in that time.

*The NFL teams in Florida and Michigan struggle to avoid league-imposed blackouts for failing to sell-out games.

What's the common thread here?  In locales where a particular sport is widely popular, the professional franchise struggles (or is non-existent) because it competes with the amateur version.  In Indiana, for instance... why spend $100/ticket to go to Conseco when you can get quality high-school and college ball anywhere in the state for next to nothing.

Basketball will always play second fiddle to football throughout and third fiddle behind baseball in most of Wisconsin.  But you can get your hoops fix on Friday nights at just about any high school in the state for a buck or two, at a D-III game for less than $10, or a D-I game for under $50. Why spend $80 to sit upstairs at the BC where Bango never visits?

[SaintPaulWarrior]

*The North Stars left Minnesota in 1993.  The NHL didn't return to the state until the NHL was nearly irrelevant.

There is more to the story of the reason the North Stars leaving the state.  Namely sexual harassment charges vs. the owner by female employees.  He had/wanted to get out of town.  The Wild sold out every game (375 or so) since they started playing.  The sellout streak ended in the middle of this season...hardly irrelevant.  By the way not in any way a Wild fan here, just stating facts.

[Skitch]

Is hockey really "wildly popular" in Wisconsin?  I'm not trying to be snide, it's an actual question.  Perhaps it's just because I don't follow it at all that I have no idea.

[Ari Gold]

Louisville, San Diego, Anaheim, Tampa, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc, etc....are they somehow lesser cities because they don't have a NBA team?  Most people in this country would pick living in San Diego over 70% of other cities as just one example.

SD- had a basketball team, has an NFL team and an MLB team
Anaheim - MLB , NHL (MLS -kind of)
KC - NFL, MLB, MLS
Nashville - NHL, NFL
St Louis -MLB, NHL, NFL
Cincinnati - NFL, MLB
Columbus- NHL, MLS
Louisville - kind of a shithole


Without the Bucks, Milwaukee would have ONE major league sports team. That's the difference between the cities you've named and Milwaukee.

Memphis, Orlando, Sacramento, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Jacksonville and Raleigh are the only cities with one major league sports team.
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The problem with this conversation and the idea that the MMAC/Tom Barret are proposing is out of focus. First off the idea in increasing a tax is generally considered unfavorable. The 5 county miller park tax is more of an annoyance because the tax was created for the stadium, the stadium was built and the tax is still on the books. The idea that the new arena would be built at the park east, also wrong. Think SOUTH of the Bradley Center.
Milwaukee has 2 arenas, an underused theater and a convention center within a 6 block area, none of which are connected.

I believe the best move for the city of Milwaukee would be to combine the Frontier Airlines Center, the Cell and the BC into one complex. Get rid of the Milwaukee theater (4+ other stages in the area could cover their shows). One area for all of the teams and a convention center would open the door for development, including more restaurants and retail connected to the complex and would generate more revenue. Concerning the lesser teams (Ads, Wave, Mustangs) they could do what the Admirals currently do and only sell the bottom level tickets for most thinly games. The remaining land (and hopefully the park east) would be able to be sold off for other developments.

Without getting too off topic - a new area could even attract a new NHL team to the area. I've heard that rumor come up now and again.

[Hards Alumni]

BC has a "shelf life of another 5 or 6 years".....are the walls about to collapse?  Have termites invaded?   I get the need to push his agenda, but that approach isn't going to fly with a number of people.  I have no doubt most folks want a shiny new toy and MU, Milwaukee,the Bucks, etc can benefit from that. There is, of course, a trade off.  Who pays for it, what other service \  interest group is put aside as a result, etc.  The pols will have to fight that out.

The problem is that the BC is not as profitable as other arenas and it makes it hard for the Bucks to compete.   It isn't that it is falling down, it is that the way people attend games is much different than 20 years ago.

[brewcity77]

Is hockey really "wildly popular" in Wisconsin?  I'm not trying to be snide, it's an actual question.  Perhaps it's just because I don't follow it at all that I have no idea.

Wildly popular? That's probably pushing it. The Admirals draw over 6,000 per game. If the city had a new arena along with a new NHL team, I don't think it's unrealistic that they'd double that figure. That said, that would only be good enough for 28th (or 3rd worst) in NHL attendance. I think to have a team be truly viable, Milwaukee would have to be able to expect around 16,000 fans per game. Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a lot when they can't even get that many fans to a Bucks game.

Though to be fair, Marquette outdraws the Bucks by about 200 fans per game. The novelty of NHL hockey in Milwaukee might be enough to get 16,000+.

[GGGG]

While it is literally true that milw would only have one major team if the bucks left, the packers are by and large milwaukee's team too. I notice that battle lines have already been drawn. I doubt the bucks stay after kohl dies since he has no children to pass the team to. And when it is sold it will be gone.

[4everwarriors]

Yeah, the dude shoulda pulled an Arnold.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, the dude shoulda pulled an Arnold.

We call it pulling a Spitzer

[Skitch]

I doubt the bucks stay after kohl dies since he has no children to pass the team to. And when it is sold it will be gone.

Seeing as he has no children and it is obviously a huge priority to him to keep the team in Milwaukee, is there any chance he leaves the team to the city of Milwaukee in his will and the team is run Packers style?

[ChicosBailBonds]

SD- had a basketball team, has an NFL team and an MLB team
Anaheim - MLB , NHL (MLS -kind of)
KC - NFL, MLB, MLS
Nashville - NHL, NFL
St Louis -MLB, NHL, NFL
Cincinnati - NFL, MLB
Columbus- NHL, MLS
Louisville - kind of a craphole


Without the Bucks, Milwaukee would have ONE major league sports team. That's the difference between the cities you've named and Milwaukee.

Memphis, Orlando, Sacramento, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Jacksonville and Raleigh are the only cities with one major league sports team.
---

You're having to bring in MLS teams to make part of your argument.    I'm fine with the other cities you've mentioned....they're fine cities and don't suffer without them.  I get that it would take Milwaukee down to one major league team, but the it's the NBA for crying out loud....it's one step below WWE.      When the league goes full blown lockout next year and at least half the season is wasted, let's see how Milwaukee does.  I predict all will survive.

When is the stadium tax supposed to run it's course?  2015?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I have not lived lived in Milwaukee for quite a few years and was just wondering IF the Bucks left would there be a threat to the bars/restaurants etc. in the area staying afloat.....or are they pretty self sufficient without the 40 or more Bucks games a year?

The bars seem to be dying off by themselves pretty easily, Bradley Center or no Bradley Center.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problem is that the BC is not as profitable as other arenas and it makes it hard for the Bucks to compete.   It isn't that it is falling down, it is that the way people attend games is much different than 20 years ago.

Oh trust me, I totally get it.  This is why the BUCKS should pay to change that, not the taxpayers.  

Or better yet, get the damn NBA to create a HARD CAP (as they should), split the revenues and that way we're not running around replacing perfectly good buildings every 15 years (like some cities) as they scream poor that they don't have enough suites.  

At the end of the day, the Bucks are going to demand a pretty new shiny object with more suites, more advertising space, etc.  It will do very well the first few years, but if the team isn't successful, those units will not go sold or will be discounted heavily to do so.  Can the city of Milwaukee afford the high priced tickets, suites, advertising, etc that is going to be required?  Isn't that just as big an issue?

Personally, I'm all for contraction.  Some cities don't deserve these teams and if they can't stand on their own they should be dissolved.

[brewcity77]

You're having to bring in MLS teams to make part of your argument.

And? The MLS has three teams that draw 20,000+ per game with 16 teams. The NBA has four teams that draw 20,000+ per game (and none that come remotely close to Seattle Sounders 36,173) with 30 teams. In their last full seasons, the NBA drew 17,318 fans per game while the MLS drew 16,677.

The NBA may get bigger TV ratings and contracts, but in terms of drawing fans out to the stadiums, they are doing nearly as good a job as the NBA, and as only 5 out of 16 teams declined in attendance in 2010, clearly the league is on the rise in terms of attendance and will likely pass the NBA for average fans drawn per game within the next 2-3 years.

[GGGG]

Seeing as he has no children and it is obviously a huge priority to him to keep the team in Milwaukee, is there any chance he leaves the team to the city of Milwaukee in his will and the team is run Packers style?

I don't think the NBA would allow that.  The Packers ownership structure isn't allowed by the NFL any longer.

[GGGG]

Oh trust me, I totally get it.  This is why the BUCKS should pay to change that, not the taxpayers. 

That's up to the citizens of Milwaukee and Wisconsin.  As someone who does not live in the state (just like you), it is not up to me to determine how they "should" spend their money.

Personally, I'm all for contraction.  Some cities don't deserve these teams and if they can't stand on their own they should be dissolved.

I don't disagree with this.  As sports has become more and more a televised product, the idea of blanketing the country with teams is a notion that is a little outdated.  The NBA and NHL could each lose a handful of teams and likely improve their product.  MLB could also lose a couple.  The NFL is fine the way it is, but should get no bigger.

[Hards Alumni]

Oh trust me, I totally get it.  This is why the BUCKS should pay to change that, not the taxpayers.  

Or better yet, get the damn NBA to create a HARD CAP (as they should), split the revenues and that way we're not running around replacing perfectly good buildings every 15 years (like some cities) as they scream poor that they don't have enough suites.  

At the end of the day, the Bucks are going to demand a pretty new shiny object with more suites, more advertising space, etc.  It will do very well the first few years, but if the team isn't successful, those units will not go sold or will be discounted heavily to do so.  Can the city of Milwaukee afford the high priced tickets, suites, advertising, etc that is going to be required?  Isn't that just as big an issue?

Personally, I'm all for contraction.  Some cities don't deserve these teams and if they can't stand on their own they should be dissolved.

The Bucks can't afford the building.  Its just a ludicrous argument.  I don't know why everyone gets their feathers ruffled about keeping that small sales tax on the books for a new arena... But I guess a lot of people have a problem being taxed for anything and everything. 

[GGGG]

The Bucks can't afford the building.  Its just a ludicrous argument.  I don't know why everyone gets their feathers ruffled about keeping that small sales tax on the books for a new arena... But I guess a lot of people have a problem being taxed for anything and everything. 

Agreed.  I am sure that many of the people from Racine County who were OUTRAGED that they were included in the taxing district now enjoy going to Miller Park...and many more watch on television.  Honestly, do you know how laughable it would be to still have the Brewers playing in County Stadium?  Would they even be around any longer?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Oh trust me, I totally get it.  This is why the BUCKS should pay to change that, not the taxpayers.  

Or better yet, get the damn NBA to create a HARD CAP (as they should), split the revenues and that way we're not running around replacing perfectly good buildings every 15 years (like some cities) as they scream poor that they don't have enough suites.  

At the end of the day, the Bucks are going to demand a pretty new shiny object with more suites, more advertising space, etc.  It will do very well the first few years, but if the team isn't successful, those units will not go sold or will be discounted heavily to do so.  Can the city of Milwaukee afford the high priced tickets, suites, advertising, etc that is going to be required?  Isn't that just as big an issue?

Personally, I'm all for contraction.  Some cities owners don't deserve these teams and if they can't stand on their own they should be dissolved.

I agree with everything you said, with one change.

I know that modern amenities and suites help the "team" make money... but the "team" making money is essentially only beneficial to the ownership group.

I have no idea how/why this would work, but it would be interesting if a super rich owner (let's say Cuban) somehow chose to run his organization as a non-profit. I mean, in that scenario, I might be more willing for taxpayer dollars to go towards an arena. Right now, a new arena just opens up new revenue streams for the owners to make more money. I think the owners can/should get more creative than just begging the state to hand them a $300 building where they pay no rent.

With this said, I'm a hypocrite because I like Miller Park. Rats.

[GGGG]

I have no idea how/why this would work, but it would be interesting if a super rich owner (let's say Cuban) somehow chose to run his organization as a non-profit. I mean, in that scenario, I might be more willing for taxpayer dollars to go towards an arena. Right now, a new arena just opens up new revenue streams for the owners to make more money. I think the owners can/should get more creative than just begging the state to hand them a $300 building where they pay no rent.

Why would Mark Cuban, or anyone else, spend hundreds of millions on a team only to turn it into a non-profit???

[Hards Alumni]

I agree with everything you said, with one change.

I know that modern amenities and suites help the "team" make money... but the "team" making money is essentially only beneficial to the ownership group.

I have no idea how/why this would work, but it would be interesting if a super rich owner (let's say Cuban) somehow chose to run his organization as a non-profit. I mean, in that scenario, I might be more willing for taxpayer dollars to go towards an arena. Right now, a new arena just opens up new revenue streams for the owners to make more money. I think the owners can/should get more creative than just begging the state to hand them a $300 building where they pay no rent.

With this said, I'm a hypocrite because I like Miller Park. Rats.

Stadiums and Arenas (in general) create a lot of business.  Without the Bucks 40 times a year, a lot of regular revenue stream would dry up downtown, and cripple it.  A MINISCULE sales tax of 0.1% in 5 counties (honestly, I think MP and the new arena should be WI wide 0.1% sales tax increase) is spread out enough that no one feels it in their pocketbooks that much.

Think about it like this.   If you were paying $100 for an item at home depot, instead it would cost you $105.10... instead of $105.00... really?  We are going to get fired up over a DIME on every hundred dollars?... Meanwhile, a lot of people have no problem shelling out almost $2 for a bottle of filtered bacteria ridden tap water at the Kwik Trip... but I guess that is another argument.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Without the Bucks 40 times a year, a lot of regular revenue stream would dry up downtown, and cripple it.

You seem to suggest that there is already a ton of revenue coming into downtown thanks to the Bucks. How many buildings in that area are vacant, and how many shuffle in and out new tenants that end up failing? I think you overestimate the existing economic impact of the Bucks. Is a new/continued stadium tax on 5 counties worth keeping the maybe-5 to -10 restaurants in business that are dependent on the Bucks?