Buzz

[Goose]

If Crean being one of the most sought after Assistant coaches on National Championship team resume was thinner I am Spider Man. Anyone that was in the know in college ball had TC on radar screen. I would say many MU fans did not know Buzz's name for most of the year under TC here.

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU--If this site was around 30 years we would have same debate over Hank. Going on record that I knew Hank my whole life and really liked him as a person. But his hire single handily ended the greatest era of MU ball. I want Buzz to be great, he is our coach. I simply just do not see the resume to have the job he currently has.

I am not trying to piss you or convince you I am right. The stakes are high in the BE and all I hope is we are up to the challenge, from the top down.

Jamie Dixon resume was the same as Buzz's, Ditto Cronin and Wright.

And Hank did not end MU's era.  MU's impatience with Majerus and getting rid of him for an experienced coach named Bob Dukiet did them in.  MU collapsed and Majerus went on to be very successful with Ball State and Utah.

Are you calling for MU to repeat that disaster again because that is what I hear?

[tower912]

  Crean had worked his way up to being Izzo's right hand man.   Buzz was Billy G's rhm at Texas AM.   Push.   Buzz had 1 year as a D1 coach.   Crean had zero.   Advantage, Buzz.  

[Goose]

Rick quit.

[Tugg Speedman]

Rick quit.

Rick was asked to quit.

[Goose]

Tower---Did you have any idea Buzz coached D1 before you heard he was going to be our coach?

[tower912]

Rick quit.   Technically true, but the story around school the year after he left is that the sweater vests were pressuring the admin to get rid of him.   It's always tough to follow a legend, and perhaps at that time he wasn't ready to replace a legend.    But a year later, he was back in D1 head coaching, so looking back, I have no problem believing he was encouraged to quit.  

[tower912]

Tower---Did you have any idea Buzz coached D1 before you heard he was going to be our coach?

I knew when we hired him that he had been a D1 coach.   MSU has been my second favorite team for as long as MU has been my favorite.   Prior to our hiring him, I had never heard of Crean.   

[Goose]

AnotherMU---What planet are you from? No Rick took his ball and run well after season ended and put us in big mess. He had pressure on him and opted out. I love Rick but still pissed on how he left.

[Goose]

Rick was not asked to quit...Hank was.

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU---What planet are you from? No Rick took his ball and run well after season ended and put us in big mess. He had pressure on him and opted out. I love Rick but still pissed on how he left.

So we agree that Hank wasn't the end (like you said 5 posts ago) but it was Rick/Dukiet?

[NersEllenson]

Goose - You are an idiot.  Probably a troll.  End of story.  I love people who bitch and moan but never offer any solutions.  Your great answer to our "coaching issue" - throw more money at someone than another school is willing to pay.  So, if you think coaches only take jobs due to who offers the most - what makes you think that when MU pays a coach more than another school..that when another school with far deeper pockets comes calling - that the coach would remain loyal to MU??


Your perception of the MU job is ridiculous.  Then again you flat out acknowledge if Buzz were to leave for Arkansas that would be a much better gig than MU??  Then who in the hell is going to want to come to MU?

My take on you:  A Badger fan, that is actually paranoid about Buzz Williams at MU - and wants him gone because you perceive him to be a threat to UW's sucess.  End of story.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean's resume was thinner.   He ended up with 190 wins in 9 years.    Al's was nothing to write home about.   Actually, the only two head coaches we have had in the last 45 years that were successful D1 coaches before they came to MU were Dukiet and Deane.    Keep trying.   

Maybe, but way way way different circumstances.  We were in CUSA, not the Big East. We had a losing record the year prior and were basically a NIT (if that) when he took over.  TC certainly had the program pedigree coming from Michigan State.  After the 9 year run he put together, one had to then ask why we would go back down the path of thin resume.

[tower912]

Because the powers that be liked him and the thicker resumes said no.   

[Goose]

Ners--I said Arkansas is better job for Buzz, not for everyone. Hardly a troll, a MU fan since 1968 and proud of it. I do not understand why you need to call someone an idiot because they have different opinion than you do. The attitudes of some on here are exactly why I feel like throwing in the towel on the program.

AnotherMU---MU's run of excellence died the day Hank was hired. Rick leaving just made things worse. At the time he was ill prepared and had too many people in his camp to succeed. His departure was best thing he ever did personally.

[NersEllenson]

Ners--I said Arkansas is better job for Buzz, not for everyone. Hardly a troll, a MU fan since 1968 and proud of it. I do not understand why you need to call someone an idiot because they have different opinion than you do. The attitudes of some on here are exactly why I feel like throwing in the towel on the program.

AnotherMU---MU's run of excellence died the day Hank was hired. Rick leaving just made things worse. At the time he was ill prepared and had too many people in his camp to succeed. His departure was best thing he ever did personally.

Please do throw the towel in on the program - we don't need anymore ignorance in our fanbase than we already have.  Sorry for calling you an idiot - but you have to offer more of a solution than "let's pay more money than anyone else to attract a top coach."  Furthermore - Buzz has beaten every single Hall of Fame Coach in the Big East already.  He's got some learning to do sure, but man - to knee jerk and think we are doomed due to going 9-9 in the Big East and losing a few tight games to Duke, UW and Vandy - considering there were 4 players left for him to work with in 2009..and had to fill a roster with 9 other guys...wow..what the helll do you expect???

[Goose]

Ners---Read my posts before you blast me. I do NOT want Buzz fired. He is a work in progress and that is acceptable to BOT and AD. Simply stating that as an alum, donor and fan I can voice my concern about overall state of program. In my opinion the fans appear to be lethargic, denial or make excuses. I want Buzz to do well, but also want world peace. There has to be ca plan to make things happen and I am concerned we do not have plan in place.

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU---MU's run of excellence died the day Hank was hired. Rick leaving just made things worse. At the time he was ill prepared and had too many people in his camp to succeed. His departure was best thing he ever did personally.

The problem back then was bigger ... the game was moving to strong conference affiliations and being an independent team was a severe disadvantage and it affected our program's success.

Most say the financial crisis was the fall of 2008, not the fall of 2007 when stock prices actually peaked.  Likewise, MU decline technically started in March 1977 but the program was fine until the collapse at the end of the Majerus/Dukiet era.

[Goose]

AnotherMU---MU excellence died the day Hank was hired, or the day we lost to Miami in NCAA....pick the date. By the time Rick quit we were no longer relevant. Just because Rick was associated with Al don't confuse history.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rick was asked to quit.

Some revisionist history going on here.  There is pressure on all these guys, but Rick's performance and his own self-applied pressure is what triggered him to leave.

Marquette did not ask Rick Majerus to quit in June of 1986....that is asinine.  You don't push coaches out in the Summer, programs don't do this because you can't land any quality good coaches in that time period. You land quality coaches in March and April, not in July...which is when we had to settle on Dukiet.

Please, let's not rewrite history here.  Rick had pressure, no doubt.  Three straight NIT appearances will do that.  Yes, some major donors and the vests weren't thrilled, but they did not ask Rick to quit in the Summer of 1986.  Rick quit on his own and left us high and dry.  Was the writing on the wall if we had another NIT season?  Probably.  If so, that change would have been made in March or '87 not in June of '86.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jamie Dixon resume was the same as Buzz's, Ditto Cronin and Wright.

Really?  Buzz was with Marquette 4 years as an assistant coach prior to taking the head coaching job?

Buzz was an assistant with our previous head coach for almost a decade as Dixon was with Howland....Pitt wanted to keep that same coaching philosophy going that Howland had at Pitt.  Howland also considered to be one of the best coaches in the nation having 3 Final Fours already, was Dixon's mentor for years.

Dixon was also a DI player.  I'm sorry, but the resumes are not the same.  Buzz never played.  Buzz's mentors have never had the success that Dixon's did.

As for Wright...I can't believe you even brought his name up.  Wright was a DI player, Buzz was not.  Wright was a head coach at a mid-major for 7 years prior to getting the VU job...he took Hofstra to the post season his last three years, including two NCAAs.  Buzz was HC for one year at New Orleans....tell me how those resumes are similar, let alone the same?

Even Cronin...he was a Head Coach for 3 years at a mid-major and went to the NCAAs twice and finished 2nd in his conference the other year.  How is that resume the same?  


For clarity sake, I do not think a coach has to be a former player to be a good coach...I only point it out because we're talking about resumes, past experience, etc.  I don't see how Buzz's resume is similar to any of these guys, let alone the same.

[Tugg Speedman]

A friend emailed this to me today and gave me permission to post here.  So, I did not write it but io do agree with it.

--------------------

I am tired of all the Buzz bashing. Here are the facts:

1.       He inherited a team with two undersized "star" guards (who won't ever spend a minute in the NBA) and one guard who Tom Crean had no idea how to use (now that guard is a multi-millionaire). After that the cupboard was bare except for Lazar Hayward who developed into a barely first round pick under Buzz. Crean knew what the future held when he took the first bus to Indiana.

2.       His first year he took Crean's remnants as far as anyone could have taken them, especially given that the season of the shot deprived Dominic James ended early.

3.       His second year he cobbled together a mix of undersized players without a legitimate center into the top half of the Big East and a tournament bid. Lazar Haywood played out of position his entire year and luckily JUCO Jimmy Butler arrived on the scene coupled with the resurgence of Cubillion and Acker. The team was able to win some close games and come from behind to win games, accomplishments that were beyond Crean's coaching ability without the likes of Dwayne Wade. At the end of the second season the cupboard was again bare except for Jimmy Butler and maybe DJO on a good day.

4.       This year again he has brought together a ragtag group of JUCO players and some new blood who clearly overachieved given their schedule. Jae Crowder was a real find, although his production has dropped of late, they don't have a decent point guard or a reasonably consistent 3 point shooter and Vander Blue has been a bust so far (this stuff about him being a great defender is a bunch of bunk –and he couldn't shoot a rhino from 5 feet away. Otule is improving, but I would hardly look to him when the game is on the line – just the fact that he has become productive is a coaching miracle given where his skills were when he came to MU. Having said all that, Buzz has tried just about every combination to make this team competitive in just about every game despite a killer schedule. The team has gotten some quality wins and been a legitimate member of the middle Big East pack. Ok, they have fallen flat the last few games. But is it Buzz's fault that the players can't shoot 3's anymore, or don't get enough paint touches? Is it Buzz's fault that at season's end their guards can't handle the ball well enough to break a press or run an offense that is effective against a zone? He has given his players all the opportunities, but they are not executing. All teams go through slumps, MU just picked the worst time to go through their slump. The slump happens to coincide with Big East teams being able to finally exploit MU's personnel weaknesses. The fact that  MU is even close to the NCAA is a testament to the fact that Buzz has done an excellent job with this team.

5.      About this talk criticizing Buzz for getting JUCO players and claiming the team has a low basketball IQ – first is there not a hint of racism in claiming that the JUCO players are dumb. I think that is simply uncalled for and certainly undercuts any criticism of Buzz's JUCO recruits. Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder were real finds, and the fact that the critics fail to acknowledge is that MU has an extremely high mountain to climb when it comes to recruiting blue chip high school players. Face it, the elite high school players don't want to come to Marquette – no matter who is coaching here. There are so many elite college basketball programs with better traditions and in better media markets that MU gets lost in the shuffle. Competing with the North Carolinas, Dukes, Georgetowns and Ohio States has always been out of the question. But given the rise of the Pittsburghs, Notre Dames, Villanovas, St Johns etc. MU remains pretty far down the food chain. In the world of elite college basketball MU will always be viewed as a backwater that has to luck out by taking chances on players that the top programs pass on – Dwayne Wade comes to mind as the prime example of what it takes to get MU to the top.

Bottom Line: This team has already over achieved and Buzz is developing into a fine coach. He needs and deserves more time to achieve the team that Marquette is capable of having. These folks that sling arrows at him should get a life.

[babytownfrolics]

Didn't we go through this already...what were there, 3 guys out of 200 or whatever it was?  To use a trademarked Lenny term...the Vast Vast Vast majority of folks don't want Buzz fired.

The way you rip on him constantly under the guise of objectivity makes it transparent you want him gone one way or another.  Keep it up and maybe you will get your wish.

[tower912]

Your friend is smart.   (A) He is spot on.  (B) He doesn't allow himself to get sucked into this board.  

[NavinRJohnson]

The simple fact is, after only two years, there was not a single Tom Crean recruit left on the team. That's pathetic (on Crean's part). Anyone who didn't recognize that there was a talent crater coming wasn't paying attention. Buzz chose to fill in short-term with JuCos, I assume because he had ties to the market, they were available, and he saw an opportunity to win some games. He could have just as easily gone the HS route, but we would have absolutely sucked last year and this year. It seems like that crater is being felt now, and potentially next year.

It seems to me that he may have successfully avoided a seriously down/rebuilding year or two, and he can potentially get the same long-term results he otherwise would have. Obviously, we'll never know for sure, but certainly at the moment its too soon to tell. In light of the fact I started this post with, it is a minor miracle we aren't terrible right now. If we do in fact make the NCAA this season (and we'll see what happens next year), I don't know how anyone can argue that Buzz has not been successful.

For the record, I do think we have a somewhat dumb team. If that makes me a racist so be it, but I though Joe Nethen, John Leurck, and Jon Polonowski among others were dumb too.