Vander's game in High School

[SD Warrior]

I am wondering what Vander's game was like in high school. I never had the pleasure of seeing him play and I am curious to know what his style of play was like. Does he have a decent mid-range game? Did he just take it to the hoop all the time? Did he shoot the three at all? With him struggling so far this Big East season it's hard to get a feel for what his game is like. I can make the assumptions that he is not that strong from the 3-point line and that he probably just took it to the hoop a lot but I'd like to hear from someone who saw him play a few times. Thanks in advance.

[Da 'Lanche]

I saw Vander play 3 straight years in the state tournament as it was an annual journey for my son and I before moving out of state.   He was explosive and could get to the hoop at will against the type of competition in the state of Wisconsin at the high school level.   His ball handling was good and he had a very effective mid-range jumper.  He took outside shots and I remember his shot looking better than it does now, but, he was much more a slasher, create his own shot and a fantastic finisher.  Lots of dunks.   He was a stud on the Boards as well.   Most impressively (imo) was his defense.   Now, it was against inferior opponents, but, he looked like a raptor out there with long arms, quick feet and he just created a lot of chaos for the opponent.   Maymon looked really good too, by the way.   I thought he would have major impact but it seems clear the level of competition in Wisconsin high school basketball must just not be very good...which makes guys like Vander look maybe more ready than he is because he is so dominant in high school.

Wilson, by the way, looked great as well and completely and utterly dominated Evan Anderson the year they went head to head.   

Anyway, Blue looks nothing this year like he did in the past.   It is obvious that he is athletic and has a lot of potential but his confidence is basically at ground zero and his outside shot seems way different.   I have a lot of hope for him...just realizing expectations were elevated (and must have been somewhat reaffirmed at the AAU level if he was ranked so high) and he needs time.   He was a lot of fun to watch, though, and hopefully that will someday translate to a D-1 impact in the Big East at MU.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

It's apparent to me that playing time was promised to him as part of his recruitment, which is unfortunate. I'm afraid exposing him to Big East play before he was ready has almost ruined him. The UCONN game, to me, was beginning of a downward spiral. Hope he can turn it around, but I'm afraid at this point it's a "wait 'til next year" proposition. He's got absolutely zero confidence out there. 

[warthog-driver]

Perhaps if they ran the offense through him as promised he could show case his skills to full advantage. Until that happens we must be prepared to watch Marquette lose all of its games.

[MerrittsMustache]

Anyway, Blue looks nothing this year like he did in the past.   It is obvious that he is athletic and has a lot of potential but his confidence is basically at ground zero and his outside shot seems way different.   I have a lot of hope for him...just realizing expectations were elevated (and must have been somewhat reaffirmed at the AAU level if he was ranked so high) and he needs time.   He was a lot of fun to watch, though, and hopefully that will someday translate to a D-1 impact in the Big East at MU.

+1

Vander is playing with no confidence right now. He has definitely been humbled playing in the Big East. He does have a decent outside shot, but not necessarily 3-point range right now. His mechanics are all out of whack though. Instead of just a "rise and fire" (to borrow a phrase from the immortal Gus Johnson), he's thinking too much. It's somewhat reminiscent of Dominic James late in his MU career. I obviously don't think Vander should mail it in for the rest of this season, but he definitely needs an offseason to get his shot worked out and to get his confidence back. He's going to be a special player for MU.

[MerrittsMustache]

It's apparent to me that playing time was promised to him as part of his recruitment, which is unfortunate. I'm afraid exposing him to Big East play before he was ready has almost ruined him. The UCONN game, to me, was beginning of a downward spiral. Hope he can turn it around, but I'm afraid at this point it's a "wait 'til next year" proposition. He's got absolutely zero confidence out there. 

How so?

[warthog-driver]

He's going to be a special player for MU.

These were Buzz' exact words when asked to describe Maymon. A week later, he was gone...

[esotericmindguy]

How so?

Because it's the only explination of his continued minutes....I feel bad for him every time he tries to do something, something always goes wrong. I think he will be solid next year but it's time to see what mellow can do in conference.

[Blackhat]

You could tell he struggled with his shot his senior year in high school as well and lacked confidence in the games I saw him play and state.

This isn't an MU/ Big East phenomenon imo.

[brewcity77]

I think the best thing he could do is start using the glass on his jumper. I remember when Wade was first here, his jump shot was okay but not spectacular. But he did use the backboard to his advantage, both from medium range and when attacking the lane and it greatly improved his accuracy. After a year, he used it less, but i've little doubt it helped improve his jump shot and maintain his confidence. Blue could definitely use a page from that book.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

How so?

Because, at this point in their respective development, Frozena would be a better option. I can't see Frozena turning the ball over or giving it up like a hot potato every time he touches it.

[TedBaxter]

.

[NickelDimer]

What really sucks is you could argue he's actually getting worse, not better.  I swear he turned ot over 75% of the time he touched the ball last night.  I have a tough time making sense of the number of minutes he plays. 

If others were being given equal opportunity, such as EW or JJ, it might make more sense.  But he's getting pretty major minutes reagardless of performance.  I don't want to buy into the "he was promised minutes" conspiracy theory, but I do have a tough time undertanding what he's done to "earn" such quality PT.

[MarquetteDano]

If others were being given equal opportunity, such as EW or JJ, it might make more sense.  But he's getting pretty major minutes reagardless of performance.  I don't want to buy into the "he was promised minutes" conspiracy theory, but I do have a tough time undertanding what he's done to "earn" such quality PT.

My guess is that Vander still looks pretty good in practice and just isn't performing in the games.  He has looked pretty bad of late.  If he could just have a decent game I think he can turns things around.  I am sure that is what Buzz and staff are thinking in playing him.

[Blackhat]

What really sucks is you could argue he's actually getting worse, not better.  I swear he turned ot over 75% of the time he touched the ball last night.  I have a tough time making sense of the number of minutes he plays. 

If others were being given equal opportunity, such as EW or JJ, it might make more sense.  But he's getting pretty major minutes reagardless of performance.  I don't want to buy into the "he was promised minutes" conspiracy theory, but I do have a tough time undertanding what he's done to "earn" such quality PT.

He probably was promised minutes.  Is that a bad thing?  Looking at what our roster was going to be for 2010 probably not.  It's just too bad his confidence/shot is so shot right now. 

 It would be nice if we could be grooming him and he would take the opportunity to get better.

[NotAnAlum]

It's apparent to me that playing time was promised to him as part of his recruitment, which is unfortunate.  

I love fans.  They complain that new players we don't see like Jones and Williams aren't given a chance to get better by playing and "working through mistakes".  Then a player like Vander, who is far more talented, is given a chance to work through mistakes and gain experience and "its only because he was promised playing time."  Vander is going through a rough spot but atleast he plays decent on the ball defense.  I'm pretty sure that Buzz just keeps hoping that one of these games he's going to have some good luck and Vander will make some plays if only due to his natural ability and the law of averages.  I think Buzz gives him a couple opportunities each game and if he doesn't make positive plays (like against SH) out he comes.  When is is contributing at least on D, as was the case against USF.  He stays in longer.  There is nothing that mysterious going on here.

[Aughnanure]

Because, at this point in their respective development, Frozena would be a better option. I can't see Frozena turning the ball over or giving it up like a hot potato every time he touches it.

Next time you have a thought....let it go.

[NickelDimer]

He probably was promised minutes.  Is that a bad thing?  Looking at what our roster was going to be for 2010 probably not.  It's just too bad his confidence/shot is so shot right now. 

 It would be nice if we could be grooming him and he would take the opportunity to get better.

Well, I'm not convinced he was promised anything, but if he was, is that a bad thing?  Yeah, particularly if it compromises a team's success.

[Blackhat]

The reality is, Buzz probably isn't going to tell a kid he's going to play his freshman year unless it's necessary.

  So either you get a top 40 Vander and let him play a little bit his freshman year or you don't get a Vander Blue and play ??? (Cadougan?) instead.

That's the way things are trending in today's recruiting game.  Looking at the NBA, i'm not too surprised and Vander probably thought he was a one and done kid. 

[willie wampum]

This isn't just some slump the last few weeks.  I saw Blue play 3-4 times both his Junior and Senior seasons of high school, and he was a much better player as a Junior.  His jump shot was never a strong suit, but it was pretty rancid already last year.  The bad habits (shooting mechanics) have been allowed to worsen for two years now.

[Earl Tatum]

Saw Vander at the State Tournament as a Junior. He had that jump shot humming. He was gunning. Then summer before his senior year, he played some AAU ball in Illinois. In His senior State Tournament---Blue looked like a way different player for the worse. Couldn't hit anything except layups. 

[thebadge10]

After Vander's Soph year he played with the Badger players a lot in the summer and they were in awe of him! (especially Joe Krabbenhift)They said at times he was dominating!  Would play in the league, etc!  His semi final game at state his junior year was nothing short of awesome.  Burying threes, getting to the rim, dunking on fast breaks!  Last year things changed.  He had a very mediocre
Year and wasn't even the best player in his conference. (football player Marquis Mason) Even the NBA scouts loved him early this year playing in that foreign tourney.  His shot isn't even close to being like it was his junior year. He totally changed it for the worse.  I thought he was going to be star.  He looks lost right now with no confidence.  He needs to works hard this off season on his shot and get a lot bigger and stronger.  He looks very thin to me.

[El Duderino]

+1

Vander is playing with no confidence right now. He has definitely been humbled playing in the Big East. He does have a decent outside shot, but not necessarily 3-point range right now. His mechanics are all out of whack though. Instead of just a "rise and fire" (to borrow a phrase from the immortal Gus Johnson), he's thinking too much. It's somewhat reminiscent of Dominic James late in his MU career. I obviously don't think Vander should mail it in for the rest of this season, but he definitely needs an offseason to get his shot worked out and to get his confidence back. He's going to be a special player for MU.

I never was able to make to playing a Division 1 sport, much less playing college basketball in major conference like the Big East.

I did though play baseball from age eight through high school and without trying to brag, i was pretty good. Over those years, there were times i'd go through slumps at the plate and it really affected my confidence. Man that's rough.

Instead of going to the plate not really thinking at all, just confidently reacting to the pitches being thrown, i'd be thinking way to much. My batting stance wouldn't feel comfortable at all. I'd go from swinging at everything to then taking pitches right down the middle. It literally would feel like i'd never get another hit, but for whatever reason, these batting slumps never affected my defense as a catcher.

When i watch Vander, besides the messed up shooting mechanics, he does look like a kid caught in a hitting slump except the basketball version of it. His confidence is in the dumpster and like you mentioned, he's constantly thinking out there instead of just playing. More afraid to screw up than expecting to make a good play. He hangs his head after mistakes. You can't be successful in any sport when your head is a mess like that, especially in such a fast moving sport like college basketball. Maybe if he just could have a game where things go really well for him, at least Vander could have some sort of positive impact the rest of the way?

Even if that happened though, i can't see Blue becoming the player he envisioned until something is done to fix his shooting mechanics. Shooting a basketball is mainly a muscle memory activity and when a player has bad mechanics, it's a hard act to repeat well. That's why it's rare to see a consistenly good shooter have funky mechanics.

[wyzgy]

as long as he doesn't give up.  buzz continually says he's one of his hardest workers and vander has backed it p in short interviews i've seen where he reiterates that he appreciates buzz pushing him to get the most out of him and wanting to be the best he can be.  my fear however is he(vander) paying afraid to f@@k up.  i believe most of our players with the exception of jay, jimmy and djo are playing that way.  buzz has them playing with a shock collar on...no good

[MerrittsMustache]

This board makes my head hurt sometimes.

Do people honestly believe that Blue only plays because Buzz promised him PT during his recruitment? And that Jones and even Frozena would be a better options but don't play because of this promise? Really?! A Division 1 basketball coach is going to play a kid to the detriment of the team because he told him that he'd get to play? Seriously? You believe that?

This is major college basketball. This is Buzz's livelihood. This isn't 6th grade boys basketball where a kid plays because his dad is friends with the coach. Blue plays because he brings a lot to the floor and is a very talented player. It shocks me that fans would be so ignorant as to believe that the only reason he sees the floor is because Buzz made a promise to him before he was even enrolled at MU.