Buzz's Team Identity

[MuMark]

Pitt is the best offensive team in the country according to Pomeroy.

We got blitzed no doubt......lets see how the rest of the year plays out.

[rocky_warrior]

Just one note about the defense yesterday.   Yes, statistically it was bad, and I'm not going to argue that it was good as a whole.  However, the couple minutes that MU pressured Pitt into something like 8 turnovers was impressive.  I wasn't paying enough attention/haven't re-watched to see what MU was doing differently, but it was proof to me that they can play good defense.  Perhaps it would take much more effort than is possible for 40min and the offense wouldn't be as good.  But alas that would require more analysis than I'm willing to do right now

[Tugg Speedman]

Pitt is the best offensive team in the country according to Pomeroy.

I'm not excusing the defense but is this thread a bunch of whining because we could not shut down the #1 rated offense in the country in their house?

If that is the standard, should Buzz be fired if we don't we the national championship this year?

[DaCoach]

It seems to me that Pittsburgh and other quality teams are taking advantage of our philosophy of doubling on the ball. That's not going to lead to as many problems for a tall veteran team as it does against lower RPI teams. It particularly leads to problems inside as often Otule or Gardner or Crowder are left to face a 2 on 1 disadvantage. The end of the Vandy game was a perfect example.

That said, Pittsburgh is an outstanding team who played an outstanding game. We lost by 8 points. Would anyone feel better if the final had been 60-52? The problem I had was our inability to adjust our defense to slow down a hot shooter until half time. It happened against WVU and again at Pitt. Sometimes we've got to assign someone to stay on a hot shooter like Gibbs just to stop the bleeding before it's too late.

[Aughnanure]

Kevin O'Neill's teams were strong defensively, sluggish offensively. Mike Deane's teams were tough, but under-talented once O'Neill's players moved along. Tom Crean's teams were defensively strong and offensively predictable, while focusing on strong rebounding...

And Buzz's teams are aggressive, run and gun units that attack the hoop. But they approach defense and rebounding as an afterthought. It was that way briefly at New Orleans, and it's that way now. We saw it against Washington last year in the tournament and repeatedly this year. Teams are never uncomfortable playing against Buzz's defense as we now do very little to disrupt opponents on the floor.

We might outscore teams to win, but we don't rough them up en route to that win. So long as defense is a secondary concern for Buzz, MU will never be a consistent, major player in the Big East.

Your argument is well taken and fair, but I think it is a bit misjudged. I believe Buzz's defensive issues stem from his defensive philosophy an not the of lack emphasis he places on it. I do not think he forced his entire defensive philosophy on the team the past two years, especially year #1, and that we are now seeing what his ideal D structure truly looks like (and forced to live with its current holes) - which is face-guarding, on the ball defense and denying the passing lanes. It is not a surprise that we give up a lot of easy buckets because of this, however I dont think Buzz is "not teaching D, "  its that he is teaching a defensive philosophy that is more high-risk high-reward than we are used to, and that we do not have the experience and talent to implement it most effectively yet.

Coupled with this is the fact that we STILL do not have an inside presence, which especially hurts Buzz's D because it tends to leave open a lot of high % shots underneath because we stretch our D. Buzz is trying to make it work with what we have, which is a one-eyed C and a Freshman bigman learning his cardio limits. That ideal player to help clog the paint and box does not exist on our current roster and these are the growing pains. To imply he doesnt care about defense, or thinks its secondary is to way oversimplify the issue (listen to his interviews-- he cares A LOT about opponents' paint touches and box touches. Maybe Buzz needs a "D Coordinator" or something, but for a guy who seems to emphasize hustle, intensity on every position, being in the right place at the right time, etc., I dont think its an emphasis issue.

If all Buzz cared about was O, wouldnt he play EWill and Jones more? Start Gardner and play him 22+ minutes every game? But he doesnt. Its a philosophical issue, which Im not saying may not be an overall issue with Buzz, but one that is still growing. I have a feeling that when Buzz's guys start to really consistently play D the way he wants, it will come together marvelously and he will look like a genius....until then though, it is his most viable source of criticism.

[Blackhat]

I'm not basing my defensive worries on the PITT game.

Buzz d's have sucked since he got here, pomroy ranked 50's first couple years and now we are 94th plus his UNO team sucked at D.  That's atrocious and more than a one game or even one season trend. 

I don't know his philosophy but if it is to high tempo, out-offense every opponent and ok with giving away buckets...good luck with that. 

[Marquette84]

we do not have the experience and talent to implement it most effectively yet.

Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now.  What do we have?  Five JUCO all-Americans?  Four more HS top 100 players?  We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense. 

As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now.  Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons.  If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex. 

[GGGG]

As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now.  Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons.  If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex. 

Or the scheme is just wrong. 

As mentioned in the "Alternative Black Jersey" thread, KO is again got a team playing great defensive ball.  It isn't *that* hard to teach defensive principles at this level...as long as the scheme is correct.  After 2 1/2 years, I think it is safe to say that it isn't.

[NersEllenson]

Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now.  What do we have?  Five JUCO all-Americans?  Four more HS top 100 players?  We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense. 

As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now.  Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons.  If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex. 

84 - What are your thoughts on how things are going over in Bloomington?  Creek and Waterford are Top 100 guys in their 2nd years, right?  Verdell Jones, Pritichard and Roth are all 3 year program guys.  IU is actually ranked worse in total defense than is MU according to Pomroy.  Furthermore, they've been on a 6 game losing streak - haven't even been competitive against any of the decent competition they've faced.  Best win against Evansville thus far.  They hack the hell out of their opponent - send the other team to the line on average 20 more times per game than they are able to get to the line.

Do you think Crean's defense is too complex?  Also, do you feel that his offensive sets and philosophy aren't conducive to getting to the free throw line?  

[Dr. Blackheart]

84 - What are your thoughts on how things are going over in Bloomington?  Creek and Waterford are Top 100 guys in their 2nd years, right?  Verdell Jones, Pritichard and Roth are all 3 year program guys.  IU is actually ranked worse in total defense than is MU according to Pomroy.  Furthermore, they've been on a 6 game losing streak - haven't even been competitive against any of the decent competition they've faced.  Best win against Evansville thus far.  They hack the hell out of their opponent - send the other team to the line on average 20 more times per game than they are able to get to the line.

Do you think Crean's defense is too complex?  Also, do you feel that his offensive sets and philosophy aren't conducive to getting to the free throw line?  

Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet.  Buzz's defensive scheme needs a redesign. 

[Mobot]

I'm not excusing the defense but is this thread a bunch of whining because we could not shut down the #1 rated offense in the country in their house?

There is a huge gap between (shutting down an offense) and (giving up 60% fg and 89 points).  If we had allowed 50% fg and 80 points, I could understand your point.

I agree that there are some serious concerns in regards to Buzz's approach to defense.

1. In an effort to create turnovers, they over play the passing lanes which leaves them exposed to back door cuts and creates a lack of help when the initial defender gets burned.

2. He has the team overcommitting on the weakside help which leaves them vulnerable beyond the arc when the ball is reversed.

3. He stresses playing defense without fouling.  This leaves the team unaggressive defensively leading to even more easy baskets for the opposition, especially around the basket.

I am hoping that Buzz adjusts his defensive approach next season. The players aren't the problem.

[Blackhat]

Billy Gillispie and Buzz were a good combo at A&M.  

Buzz has done good things with our O, lack of to's has been great.

And Gillispie can coach D that's for sure, that's what we are lacking that A&M had during their runs..we've got the O but Gillispie must have been a much better coach than Buzz on D.  (d rankings at A&M was 240th then Billy gets there, 68th, 8th, 10th in ranking those are the trends you like to see.)

too bad Gillispie has drinking problems, he could be Buzz's Hank Raymonds.

[GGGG]

Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet.  

OK...now *that* was funny.

[Aughnanure]

Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now.  What do we have?  Five JUCO all-Americans?  Four more HS top 100 players?  We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.  

As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now.  Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons.  If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.  

Talent-wise, I would counter that we do not have the inside talent and depth to best implement the defensive approach. Don't get me wrong, I have not been happy watching how our defense gets stretched constantly and to see the huge open opportunities given underneath./ But I do not think Buzz pushed his entire defensive philosophy on this team until now, making the most of the years he had the Big 3 and Lazar before fully integrating it in. That would mean these players havent been learning it for 2 1/2 years, though its not an excuse for the gross amount missed assignments and mistakes.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet.  Buzz's defensive scheme needs a redesign. 

I don't disagree that this team needs work defensively, and that may mean re-designing the concepts of our D.  We might be best served to just play a more vanilla, straight up D.  Eliminate some of the soft 3/4 court pressures, and even eliminate some of the trapping in the half court.  It seems MU applies some good traps in the half court, but the offensive player has often been able to step through the trap and make a good pass to an open teammate.

Perhaps less is more with this team - keep it simple - and see how the results play out...

[6746jonesr]

With all of the basketball experts on this board, I am just wondering which one should be selected to replace Buzz as coach?

[NoCheese]

hehe - amen 6746jonesr

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here you go again...but I'll indulge you with an answer:  The point was that it is far more likely Buzz would get recruited out of MU in the next 2 or 3 years than he will get fired.  My response was to Stone Cold who suggested MU would move on in 2 or 3 years if Buzz can't get his teams to play better D.  We are in the best basketball playing conference at present. 

I don't think Buzz will leave for "greener pastures" which would be a school that has a football team.  As you know we at MU are in a precarious position due to not having a football team - with regard to conference realignment and football driving that bus.

I have said previously that the only place I could see Buzz leaving MU for would be Texas or Texas A&M - and what might drive him to do so are fans who have ridiculous expectations/criticisms of how he is handling the program...so keep up your efforts and you might get your wish Chicos!!  Then we can see what sorry sack of a coach we get to come to MU...as we all know who we were turned down by for interviews before Buzz got the job..even though we were in the Big East, had the Al McGuire Center, and had some successs already in the Big East at that point..

So do you think that leaving for Texas or Texas A&M would be less pressure, less critical fans?  Well, maybe at A&M but not at Texas.

For the record, I have no desire to see Buzz Williams leave MU anytime soon, so your comment about my wishes that he were to leave could not be more inaccurate.

[NersEllenson]

So do you think that leaving for Texas or Texas A&M would be less pressure, less critical fans?  Well, maybe at A&M but not at Texas.

For the record, I have no desire to see Buzz Williams leave MU anytime soon, so your comment about my wishes that he were to leave could not be more inaccurate.

Yes - there would be less pressure to coach basketball at Texas or Texas A&M - as you and most everyone knows - football is king in Texas.  Period.  Since all MU has is basketball, basketball is everything.  Pretty sure that from your time in the MU athletic department, you know as well as I do..that everyone from O'Neill, to Deane, to even Crean to an extent - felt the ghosts of Al McGuire - and the expectations for MU basketball to be what it was when Al was here. 

Maybe pressure isn't the right word, but the expectations many MU fans have of the basketball program are quite lofty - given the reality of the college basketball landscape -and Marquette's place/geography within that landscape.  Rick Barnes at Texas hasn't exactly lit it up in the NCAA tourney, but you hear almost no chatter about fans getting restless with his performance.  Tom Crean has it a lot more difficult at IU than does Barnes at Texas...because IU is a basketball first school.  A double edged sword in some ways - you get all the adulation if you can be successful at an IU or MU in basketball, but you also get a lot of wrath and restlessness if you aren't successful (to the tune of being a Final Four/Elite 8 type of program) by many of th ealumni..

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes - there would be less pressure to coach basketball at Texas or Texas A&M - as you and most everyone knows - football is king in Texas.  Period.  Since all MU has is basketball, basketball is everything.  Pretty sure that from your time in the MU athletic department, you know as well as I do..that everyone from O'Neill, to Deane, to even Crean to an extent - felt the ghosts of Al McGuire - and the expectations for MU basketball to be what it was when Al was here. 

Maybe pressure isn't the right word, but the expectations many MU fans have of the basketball program are quite lofty - given the reality of the college basketball landscape -and Marquette's place/geography within that landscape.  Rick Barnes at Texas hasn't exactly lit it up in the NCAA tourney, but you hear almost no chatter about fans getting restless with his performance.  Tom Crean has it a lot more difficult at IU than does Barnes at Texas...because IU is a basketball first school.  A double edged sword in some ways - you get all the adulation if you can be successful at an IU or MU in basketball, but you also get a lot of wrath and restlessness if you aren't successful (to the tune of being a Final Four/Elite 8 type of program) by many of th ealumni..

Other than from a handful of posters on here and a small group of "doom and gloom" boosters, Buzz really isn't feeling much pressure at all from the MU faithful. He's feeling even less from the administration. The expectations of most MU fans also aren't as lofty as you seem to believe.

[warthog-driver]

Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now.  What do we have?  Five JUCO all-Americans?  Four more HS top 100 players?  We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense. 

As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now.  Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons.  If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex. 

Joanie tells it like it is...as only a Harbaugh can!

[MerrittsMustache]

Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now.   What do we have?  Five JUCO all-Americans?  Four more HS top 100 players?  We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense. 

So you think that every player on the roster has already maxed their potential?

[Marquette84]

Joanie tells it like it is...as only a Harbaugh can!

More namecalling.  Nice.  You wouldn't do it in public--why do you think you can get away with it here?

What's the charge for this?  Conduct unbecoming?  

Disgraceful.

So you think that every player on the roster has already maxed their potential?

JUCOs absolutely.  Last summer I posted an analysis of very 1st and 2nd team JUCO AA going back several years, and in almost every case, what you see the first year is what you get the 2nd.

What people often confuse is an increase in minutes with an improvement in performance.  Jimmy Butler is a good example.  His was 3rd on the depth chart behind Matthews and Hayward his first year--with Matthews gone in his 2nd year, people claimed that he improved.  

However, when you adjust for minutes played, virtually every tempo neutral or per 40 minutes stat remained essentially the same.  His O-Rating is down.  His FG% is slightly down.  His rebounding/40 minutes is flat.   His fouls/40 have improved.  Assists per 40 have slightly improved.  FT% has improved slightly.  Blocks per 40 have declined slightly.  

Of course the raw numbers are up, but adjusted for playing time, he's essentially the same player he was his first year.  Some refinement, but not a quantum leap.  Ditto with DJO.  Ditto with Fulce.  Buycks has shown across the board improvement, but its hard to know if that's because he's better or because he shifted from a backup 2 to the starting 1.

With underclassmen its a bit more complex.  Let's set aside bigs for a moment.  For guards and SF/WFs, you pretty much know out of the gate that a kid will contribute or not at the college level.  Diener, Novak, the Amigos, Wardle, Hayward, Key, etc--these types of players showed you what they had from day one.  Menard, Howard, Hester, Diggs--you knew from day one that they were not your future starters for a league contender.  

Sometimes your great players started on day 1 (the Amigos)--sometimes they understudied (e.g. Diener behind Henry).  But you pretty much knew during their first year that they were a special player--we weren't halfway through their sophomore seasons wondering why they can't get off the bench in a 20+ point blowout.

Bigs are the exception.  Gray at Pitt, McCaskill, Otule, even Crawford.  They sometimes can take a couple of years.  On the other hand, Merritt, Fazekas since I brought him up a couple of days ago, Harangody--sometimes they give you something that approaches their max on Day 1.

[warthog-driver]

More namecalling.  Nice.  You wouldn't do it in public--why do you think you can get away with it here?

Name calling? Hardly. And, yes, I would say it to your face. Every single word.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Other than from a handful of posters on here and a small group of "doom and gloom" boosters, Buzz really isn't feeling much pressure at all from the MU faithful. He's feeling even less from the administration. The expectations of most MU fans also aren't as lofty as you seem to believe.

Absolutely agree.  The pressure at MU is a molecule compared to having the eyes of Texas on you.  Yes, Texas is a football state, no one denies that.  It's still a huge state, however, with huge alumni base who wants to win at all sports.  You think there are some doom and gloom people here, go check out the UT boards.