MV MU discussion

[tower912]

Looks like I found the link just in time.    I joined at 16-10 MVSU, now 29-20 MU.    19-4 runs are always good.   Like the ball movement against the zone.   So good (while I watched) that they forced them to go man.  Still weak on the d-boards.

[rocky_warrior]

Holy Crowder! 3 in a row!

[Lighthouse 84]

Jae has come to play!

[tower912]

And then blowing the freebies.   Ball movement is good, defensive rotations are a little better.

[drewm88]

Unbelievable stat on Crowder that Krause mentioned-- Going into tonight he was 9-9 on his first 3 of the game in the last 9 games, but 1-14 after that. Make it 10-10 and 3-16 now! Awesome to see him stepping up.

[chren21]

Ewill still making mental mistakes on D.  Very frustrating.

[avid1010]

Seeing some good things on offense...giving up 40 (and counting) in the first half is concerning.  If this team can put it together, both sides of the ball, both halves of the game, they'll be very competititve.  I'd say youth...but it's more DJO/Buycks/Butler I've expected better from.

[rocky_warrior]

At Half for Crowder...

16 pts, 3 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk

Not a bad line for Blue either

8 pts, 2 reb, 3 ast, 1 stl, 2 blk

Offense looks better (more passing, more assists, +paint touches).  Defense is poor so far today.  Oh, and shooting 54.5% on 3s so far.  That'll make any team look better.

[tower912]

Ewill still making mental mistakes on D.  Very frustrating.

Agreed.   And the form on that baseline J was so pure.    This is what happens when you never play man, instead playing a one man zone in HS.   His defensive instincts are poor right now.   Hope they get better

[NersEllenson]

Best thing about this game thus far is it looks like DJO is finding his shot form.  His first midrange jumper looked very good, as have all of his other shots...his only miss that I recall was a 3..but it was right on line.

Love the dump downs to Gardner..let Ox go to work..either score or kick out for an easy 3.

Perhaps as some of said the team will be best served if neither Reggie or Junior see much PT this year...

[reinko]

Noticed the back to back dump down to Ox, then a kick out for wide open shooter.  Good stuff.

[tower912]

Junior will see 15-20 mpg.   We need him

[NersEllenson]

Noticed the back to back dump down to Ox, then a kick out for wide open shooter.  Good stuff.

Definitely a nice option to have in your offensive strategies...hopefully Ox can give this team a very solid 15-18 minutes per game come Big East season and hold his own defensively.  The value he brings offensively is quite evident.

[NersEllenson]

Junior will see 15-20 mpg.   We need him

I see this going either way - Junior does show flashes of being valuable on the floor - just wonder if he isn't still a year away..and if the team is best all around without he or Reggie playing much this year.  Buycks certainly is better off the ball than at point...but the way our offense is structured..there really doesn't need to be a designated PG..just someone who can initiate the offense..get the motion started.

[chren21]

That was hilarious. And then after giving up all those off rebounds Ewill gets beat on the dribble and gives up a foul for not moving his feet.

[tower912]

No defensive instincts

[reinko]

Jae needs either to learn how to dunk, or practice more layup lines.  C'mon big fella.  Got hit those bunnies!

[National Champs]

Hopefully Rob doesn't get SoG for his rebound.

[NersEllenson]

That was hilarious. And then after giving up all those off rebounds Ewill gets beat on the dribble and gives up a foul for not moving his feet.

No defensive instincts

Think y'all are being a little harsh on Erik.  There were a few defensive possesions where he was a help man..not the primary defender...to where he was slightly out of position.  Tough responsibility to an extent when you are so concerned about giving up an offensive rebound - as I'm sure Erik is - as he likely feels rebounding is going to be what gets him on the court this year.  When you help off your man..clearly you leave your man..which opens him up for an offensive board.

Buzz has definitive principles as far as how he wants his post guys to defend - usually fronting the post if you are anyone other than Otule/Gardner..so..as you fight to get around and over your man..that also creates challenges with regard to providing help defense.

I dont write this to make excuses for Erik..but to defend him a little bit.  He's got some skills that this team can use.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What were the overall impressions?  I missed the whole thing do to a Christmas party.  Score looks good...curious to hear how everyone played.  Sounds like Crowder and DJO were very good on the offensive side tonight.

[NotAnAlum]

The Good

MU looked much better against the zone.  More inside out passing rather than just passing around the perimeter

DJO found his stroke. Life is easier when he is dropping those 3s


The Bad

MVS got inside way to easy

Far too many off rebounds given up. 

[MUfan12]

Jae was great, and deserves a lot of the attention.

But DJO was phenomenal. 19, 6, 6 and did not turn the ball over. I hope this gives him that confidence going into Vandy.

[tower912]

Ball movement, particularly against the zone was the best all year.   Still gave up too many 3's and offensive rebounds.     Crowder and DJO found their 3 pt shooting touch. 

[groove]

Difficult to make any judgements from games like this against teams this bad. It's one step above those summer league games.

[TheButlerDidIt]

Ball movement, particularly against the zone was the best all year.   Still gave up too many 3's and offensive rebounds.     Crowder and DJO found their 3 pt shooting touch. 

They don't seem to have an interest in defending threes. At the beginning of the year, I thought 3pt defense was going to be a strength because of the height and length of our guards. Guess not.

Also, for the offensive boards, alot of the times it just seems the guys are out of position, i.e. on a long three point miss, our guys are all standing under the basket.

Hopefully Jae and DJO stay assertive.

DJO has to realize that he's more than just a shooter. Just because his shot doesn't fall some nights doesn't mean he's not going to be a benefit to his team. He had some quick hands tonight and was creating with his passes.

[APieperFan3]

DJO has to realize that he's more than just a shooter. Just because his shot doesn't fall some nights doesn't mean he's not going to be a benefit to his team. He had some quick hands tonight and was creating with his passes.

+1.

Last night, he really let the game come to him...and that is when he (and 95% of players) is at his best.

 Buzz made a comment on the BW Show on Monday how DJO needs to be more confident, etc. even when things arent going in his way (as a person - which IMO is the same on the bball court). On nights where he makes his first few shots, we won't have to worry about him. But if he misses his first few, he starts to press too much - see the Becky games when he was one spin move away from corkscrewing himself into the floor.

[NersEllenson]

+1.

Last night, he really let the game come to him...and that is when he (and 95% of players) is at his best.

 Buzz made a comment on the BW Show on Monday how DJO needs to be more confident, etc. even when things arent going in his way (as a person - which IMO is the same on the bball court). On nights where he makes his first few shots, we won't have to worry about him. But if he misses his first few, he starts to press too much - see the Becky games when he was one spin move away from corkscrewing himself into the floor.

Great analysis -  it looked like they ran the first play of the game  for DJO, to get him that mid-range jumper - to get him going/off - thankfully he hit it...and like you mention in the bolded part..he's all good from that point on.

I've posted this before but if DJO played at just 85% of last seasons DJO - more than likely MU is undefeated, and ranked in the Top 10 at this point.

[Danny Noonan]

I've posted this before but if DJO played at just 85% of last seasons DJO - more than likely MU is undefeated, and ranked in the Top 10 at this point.

Whether or not DJO made a couple of more 3's or not, there is no way that MU has looked anything close to a top 10 team.

[APieperFan3]

Thanks Ners.

Not sure if we would be Top 10...but somewhere in the Top 25 for sure. It's easy to look back and say "what if" tho. Your point is valid tho...most likely ranked even if we took 2 of 3. Need a W in the worst way against Vandy.

Also, I thought DJO played perhaps his best defense of the season last night. I might be in the minority, but I believe that you can become "confident" on the defensive end too. You can get into a groove where you continuously put yourself in position to make plays with your athletic ability while not leaving your teammates out to dry on a quick ball reversal or skip pass. Another positive for DJO...especially since his defense isnt necessarily the strongest part of the game. But if he can start to find that niche (even in spurts), he has the athletic ability to make some defensive plays and hopfully that results in 4-6pts off turnovers....which in turn can be 8-10pt swing.

Also, Jae reminded me of Lazar last night trailing in the secondary break and BURYING a few threes from the top of the key. (which seems to be where he shoots it best from 3pt land)

[chren21]

I might be in the minority, but I believe that you can become "confident" on the defensive end too.

Absolutely.  Confidence is a huge part of all aspects of basketball.  I don't think that Jordan, Bird, or any other great players ego / confidence could even be measured.

[Golden Avalanche]

I've posted this before but if DJO played at just 85% of last seasons DJO - more than likely MU is undefeated, and ranked in the Top 10 at this point.

Um, wow.

[groove]

I've posted this before but if DJO played at just 85% of last seasons DJO - more than likely MU is undefeated, and ranked in the Top 10 at this point.

jocularity in the morning - starting the day with a spit-take.

[Lennys Tap]

I've posted this before but if DJO played at just 85% of last seasons DJO - more than likely MU is undefeated, and ranked in the Top 10 at this point.

I'd be a little more conservative and say that if we had last year's version of DJO we'd be 11-1 and be on the fringe of the top 25. We would still have a big problem with defensive rebounding and questions would remain about our 3 point defense and our point guard play. But certainly the doom and gloom would be at a much lower level around here.

[NersEllenson]

Whether or not DJO made a couple of more 3's or not, there is no way that MU has looked anything close to a top 10 team.

Um, wow.

jocularity in the morning - starting the day with a spit-take.

Just lumping the 3 of you together as you all see it differently which certainly is fair/fine, but I do look forward to your actual justifications as for why you see it this way.  Here are my justifications:

DJO shoots a combined 9 for 36 against Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin.  Of those he was 3 for 16 on 3 point shots.  A HUGE departure from last year's results, and those games were close enough that it is not ridiculous to think we would have won at least 2 out of the 3.
MU is ranked 9th in the country in FG%, 10th in Assists per game, 15th in Points Per Game, and believe it or not 58th in rebounds per game - all out of 345 teams. This team is very efficient offensively.

[MerrittsMustache]

Just lumping the 3 of you together as you all see it differently which certainly is fair/fine, but I do look forward to your actual justifications as for why you see it this way.  Here are my justifications:

DJO shoots a combined 9 for 36 against Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin.  Of those he was 3 for 16 on 3 point shots.  A HUGE departure from last year's results, and those games were close enough that it is not ridiculous to think we would have won at least 2 out of the 3.
MU is ranked 9th in the country in FG%, 10th in Assists per game, 15th in Points Per Game, and believe it or not 58th in rebounds per game - all out of 345 teams. This team is very efficient offensively.

While I don't agree with the notion that MU could be a top 10 team, it's amazing how much better teams look when their shots are falling. They not only look better using "the eye ball test" but it also shows up in the box score in terms of a decreased number of opponent's rebounds.

[Danny Noonan]

Just lumping the 3 of you together as you all see it differently which certainly is fair/fine, but I do look forward to your actual justifications as for why you see it this way.  Here are my justifications:

DJO shoots a combined 9 for 36 against Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin.  Of those he was 3 for 16 on 3 point shots.  A HUGE departure from last year's results, and those games were close enough that it is not ridiculous to think we would have won at least 2 out of the 3.
MU is ranked 9th in the country in FG%, 10th in Assists per game, 15th in Points Per Game, and believe it or not 58th in rebounds per game - all out of 345 teams. This team is very efficient offensively.

Ners,

In looking at your post I won’t disagree that if DJO is lighting it up from beyond the arc then MU is a much more dangerous team and it could change the outcomes of games. The 3-ball is the great equalizer in college hoops as it hides deficiencies and makes March Madness what it is today as it gives the underdogs a chance.

I will say that if DJO makes a few more 3’s then maybe we possibly beat Wisconsin, but probably not Duke or the Zags. MU was fortunate to be within shouting difference at the end of all 3 games as they were outplayed. (A Duke fan could also argue that the Blue Devils would have won by 11 if only Kyle Singler had made a few more threes as he was 2 of 7)

As far as the assists and FG % stats for MU you listed, they are nice to look at somewhat reassuring but they also came from playing a bunch of cupcakes.  To date, MU has lost all 3 games against quality opponents, our best win was against UW-M, and I have not seen anything resemble a top 10 team. 

If……………….. DJO and Crowder shoot like they did last night, Butler steps up at the end of games like last year, Gardner continues to develop, Cadougan and Buycks sure up their PG play and Fulce is able to come back and assist with defensive rebounding, then we could be a top 20 team.

[NersEllenson]

Ners,

In looking at your post I won’t disagree that if DJO is lighting it up from beyond the arc then MU is a much more dangerous team and it could change the outcomes of games. The 3-ball is the great equalizer in college hoops as it hides deficiencies and makes March Madness what it is today as it gives the underdogs a chance.

I will say that if DJO makes a few more 3’s then maybe we possibly beat Wisconsin, but probably not Duke or the Zags. MU was fortunate to be within shouting difference at the end of all 3 games as they were outplayed. (A Duke fan could also argue that the Blue Devils would have won by 11 if only Kyle Singler had made a few more threes as he was 2 of 7)

As far as the assists and FG % stats for MU you listed, they are nice to look at somewhat reassuring but they also came from playing a bunch of cupcakes.  To date, MU has lost all 3 games against quality opponents, our best win was against UW-M, and I have not seen anything resemble a top 10 team. 

If……………….. DJO and Crowder shoot like they did last night, Butler steps up at the end of games like last year, Gardner continues to develop, Cadougan and Buycks sure up their PG play and Fulce is able to come back and assist with defensive rebounding, then we could be a top 20 team.

Noonan - Think you make a lot of good points here...and basically agree.  The "if" or would, coulda, shoulda game is always a slippery slope to play - but I guess my point was that we haven't been too far away from being an 11-1 team..and it has been clear to all of ust that DJO has been struggling mightily.  The team looks so much more like a good team..when we see the DJO of last night, UWM, and last year.  Hopefully we continue to see good play from DJO and Crowder asyou mention.  Should be a fun ride the rest of the way.

[Golden Avalanche]

Just lumping the 3 of you together as you all see it differently which certainly is fair/fine, but I do look forward to your actual justifications as for why you see it this way.  Here are my justifications:

DJO shoots a combined 9 for 36 against Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin.  Of those he was 3 for 16 on 3 point shots.  A HUGE departure from last year's results, and those games were close enough that it is not ridiculous to think we would have won at least 2 out of the 3.
MU is ranked 9th in the country in FG%, 10th in Assists per game, 15th in Points Per Game, and believe it or not 58th in rebounds per game - all out of 345 teams. This team is very efficient offensively.

The only justification you seem to making backing up that assertion is that if Darius hit more shots, MU wins more games. Its never that simple.

MU was absolutely assaulted by Plumlee. Darius hitting a 3 here or a 3 there wasn't going to change that. The defeat was only five thanks to last minute charity.

The Gonzaga performance was the worst of the season. These types of games happen five times a year. Nothing would change that result.

As for Wisconsin, we got owned by two very good and experienced players. Considering Wisconsin had 98 second chance points, I'd doubt Darius alone hitting another 3 would have won the game.

Writing MU would be playing better, and competing better in their losses, if DJO was 85% of last year's DJO is one thing. Writing that they'd be undefeated and top ten along with UConn, Cuse, and Pitt is a biased thought without grounding.

[APieperFan3]

The Gonzaga performance was the worst of the season. These types of games happen five times a year. Nothing would change that result.

That's a pretty good point GA. We have been "lucky" the past few years to have some seniors/experience in order to escape some of those games. (Just because we played poorly didnt result in us taking a loss).

Gonzaga was the first of those "five bad games per year". I hope as the season goes on, that Buzz gets some guys to emerge (DJO, Crowder, Blue?) in order to help us get some of those Ws when we don't play a great game.