nice to see maymon 0-1

[wildbillsb]

 Get Jeronne away from psycho-papa, and he'd make a good marine.  Seen it before.

[warthog-driver]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

Since when is D1 basketball a life or death situation?

Since when is taking responsibility, honoring one's commitment to others, acting with courage in the face of adversity (however slight,) limited to life and death situations? I take issue with those who offer Maymon's age or his overbearing father as exempting him from demonstrating maturity and integrity. If an 18 year old ROMAD can live deep within enemy territory for weeks at a time, sleeping in rocks by day then calling in airstrikes night after night I submit Jeronne Maymon could also demonstrate a bit of courage in his life. 

[PE8983]

Exactly.  There's only one word that comes to mind - QUITTER.  Don't wish him any sort of bad luck, or hope that he fails.  But, "good riddance and don't let the door hit ya" is very appropriate.

[Henry Sugar]

Since when is taking responsibility, honoring one's commitment to others, acting with courage in the face of adversity (however slight,) limited to life and death situations? I take issue with those who offer Maymon's age or his overbearing father as exempting him from demonstrating maturity and integrity. If an 18 year old ROMAD can live deep within enemy territory for weeks at a time, sleeping in rocks by day then calling in airstrikes night after night I submit Jeronne Maymon could also demonstrate a bit of courage in his life. 

Your analogy is flawed.  In most cases, it is the situation and not the person's attributes that dictate a response.  Soldiers handle life or death adversity because that is the situation into which they are thrust.  Not just the situation, but all of the areas that surround it (platoons, leadership, culture, etc) help drive the behavior.   What responsibility is expected of a D1 basketball player?  Their entire lives are scripted for them... what/when they work out, when they study, where they eat.

Your analogy is further flawed because issues like taking responsibility, honoring commitments, or acting with courage in the face of adversity aren't required nor expected of college coaches.  If that were the case, Roseboro, Mbao, and Newbill would be on the roster.

You see 18 year-olds living with courage and honor all the time, and wonder why Jeronne cannot fulfill those same expectations.  I see two entirely separate environments, where one does not demand responsibility and is routinely filled with unmet commitments.  I refuse to equate the two.

Jeronne was not facing fire or enemies.  His situation was a choice between his family or Marquette... a Marquette that could have decided to cut ties with him at any point.  He chose his family.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since when is taking responsibility, honoring one's commitment to others, acting with courage in the face of adversity (however slight,) limited to life and death situations? I take issue with those who offer Maymon's age or his overbearing father as exempting him from demonstrating maturity and integrity. If an 18 year old ROMAD can live deep within enemy territory for weeks at a time, sleeping in rocks by day then calling in airstrikes night after night I submit Jeronne Maymon could also demonstrate a bit of courage in his life. 

Not all 18 year olds are built the same, especially if you spent 18 years with that type of father.  Not easy to just stand up for yourself and break away.  Life isn't that simple.

[Warrior]

Who is this Maymon guy you speak of?

[warthog-driver]

Your analogy is flawed.  In most cases, it is the situation and not the person's attributes that dictate a response.  Soldiers handle life or death adversity because that is the situation into which they are thrust.  Not just the situation, but all of the areas that surround it (platoons, leadership, culture, etc) help drive the behavior.   What responsibility is expected of a D1 basketball player?  Their entire lives are scripted for them... what/when they work out, when they study, where they eat.

Your analogy is further flawed because issues like taking responsibility, honoring commitments, or acting with courage in the face of adversity aren't required nor expected of college coaches.  If that were the case, Roseboro, Mbao, and Newbill would be on the roster.

You see 18 year-olds living with courage and honor all the time, and wonder why Jeronne cannot fulfill those same expectations.  I see two entirely separate environments, where one does not demand responsibility and is routinely filled with unmet commitments.  I refuse to equate the two.

Jeronne was not facing fire or enemies.  His situation was a choice between his family or Marquette... a Marquette that could have decided to cut ties with him at any point.  He chose his family.

He made a commitment to his teammates. That is something we understand very well. Jeronne Maymon broke ranks and betrayed his brotherhood. His actions were despicable.

[Josey Wales]

Good to see your back stateside Warthog.

[Hards Alumni]

Not all 18 year olds are built the same, especially if you spent 18 years with that type of father.  Not easy to just stand up for yourself and break away.  Life isn't that simple.

Sad but true.

by all accounts I have heard J-May loved it at MU.

[GGGG]

He made a commitment to his teammates. That is something we understand very well. Jeronne Maymon broke ranks and betrayed his brotherhood. His actions were despicable.

You're getting a little too liberal with the application of military phraseology onto a basketball team.  He's a basketball player who, for whatever reason, didn't feel satisfied at MU...so he transferred.  Kids transfer schools all the time.  He should be where he wants to be.

[GGGG]

Your analogy is flawed.  In most cases, it is the situation and not the person's attributes that dictate a response.  Soldiers handle life or death adversity because that is the situation into which they are thrust.  Not just the situation, but all of the areas that surround it (platoons, leadership, culture, etc) help drive the behavior.   What responsibility is expected of a D1 basketball player?  Their entire lives are scripted for them... what/when they work out, when they study, where they eat.

Your analogy is further flawed because issues like taking responsibility, honoring commitments, or acting with courage in the face of adversity aren't required nor expected of college coaches.  If that were the case, Roseboro, Mbao, and Newbill would be on the roster.

You see 18 year-olds living with courage and honor all the time, and wonder why Jeronne cannot fulfill those same expectations.  I see two entirely separate environments, where one does not demand responsibility and is routinely filled with unmet commitments.  I refuse to equate the two.

Jeronne was not facing fire or enemies.  His situation was a choice between his family or Marquette... a Marquette that could have decided to cut ties with him at any point.  He chose his family.

+1.  Well stated.

[warthog-driver]

Your analogy is flawed.  In most cases, it is the situation and not the person's attributes that dictate a response.  Soldiers handle life or death adversity because that is the situation into which they are thrust.  Not just the situation, but all of the areas that surround it (platoons, leadership, culture, etc) help drive the behavior.   What responsibility is expected of a D1 basketball player?  Their entire lives are scripted for them... what/when they work out, when they study, where they eat.

Your analogy is further flawed because issues like taking responsibility, honoring commitments, or acting with courage in the face of adversity aren't required nor expected of college coaches.  If that were the case, Roseboro, Mbao, and Newbill would be on the roster.

You see 18 year-olds living with courage and honor all the time, and wonder why Jeronne cannot fulfill those same expectations.  I see two entirely separate environments, where one does not demand responsibility and is routinely filled with unmet commitments.  I refuse to equate the two.

What in God's name is situational about taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage? This is precisely waht is wrong with western society today. I live in a world that has standards and where a man is actually held accountable. Situational ethics is bullshit. Fr Davitt would be ashamed to read the drivel you posted.

[hairy worthen]

What in God's name is situational about taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage? This is precisely waht is wrong with western society today. I live in a world that has standards and where a man is actually held accountable. Situational ethics is bullcrap. Fr Davitt would be ashamed to read the drivel you posted.

Thank you

[GGGG]

What in God's name is situational about taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage? This is precisely waht is wrong with western society today. I live in a world that has standards and where a man is actually held accountable. Situational ethics is bullcrap. Fr Davitt would be ashamed to read the drivel you posted.

As Henry pointed out, "honoring one's word" goes both ways.  If MU can cut ties with its players (Newbill, Mbao and Roseboro), than Maymon should be given the same level of responsibility.  Accountability goes both ways...there was nothing unethical about Maymon's actions IF you believe there was nothing unethical about MU's actions in regards to its players.

And let me also add, that your world's standards are set up for reasons that really aren't comperable to the rest of society.  So don't be all high and mighty because of it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Maybe I missed something. Was Jeronne at Marquette on a basketball scholarship or an ROTC scholarship?

[warthog-driver]

As Henry pointed out, "honoring one's word" goes both ways.  If MU can cut ties with its players (Newbill, Mbao and Roseboro), than Maymon should be given the same level of responsibility.  Accountability goes both ways...there was nothing unethical about Maymon's actions IF you believe there was nothing unethical about MU's actions in regards to its players.

And let me also add, that your world's standards are set up for reasons that really aren't comperable to the rest of society.  So don't be all high and mighty because of it.

Taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage don't apply to "the rest of society??" Good Lord but that is pathetic. There are a few Jesuits who visit this site. I believe they have some perspective on the need for integrity in thought and action. I have never heard that Character must be limited to certain segments of society.

[GGGG]

Taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage don't apply to "the rest of society??" Good Lord but that is pathetic. 

Again, honoring one's word goes both ways.  You have yet to address MU's actions regarding its players.  If you do believe that their actions were honorable, I don't see how you cannot feel the same about Maymon's.

[MerrittsMustache]

warthog - Have you ever left a job to take a different job at a company that you felt was better for you and your long-term career goals?

[Skatastrophy]

At 18 I'm glad that Maymon followed his heart and listened to his father.

I'm disappointed that those decisions led him away from MU and it sucks that his father is nuts... but school is just for 4 years and family is for forever.  How are you going to tell a kid that his dad is leading him astray?  At least his father is taking an interest in his life.  Better than a lot of dad's out there.

[reinko]

Taking responsibility, honoring one's word, and acting with moral courage don't apply to "the rest of society??" Good Lord but that is pathetic. There are a few Jesuits who visit this site. I believe they have some perspective on the need for integrity in thought and action. I have never heard that Character must be limited to certain segments of society.

So rather than harp on the mistake, and the absence of judgement by JM, the better use of our time is how MU works to ensure these types of things do not happen again.  I believe in the notion, "it's not the stimulus, it's the response."  How does MU respond to these situations.  What, if anything, will Buzz, the AD, whoever do, to current and future players to make them feel like they do not have to transfer, and they feel a part of something larger than themselves.  What will Jeronne do?  Will he make better decisions, grow from this.  Everyone makes mistakes, but too often in life we focus on them, and not how we respond to the adversity.

Thank you for your service, and all the sacrifices you and your family has made to this great country.

We are Marquette.

[warthog-driver]

warthog - Have you ever left a job to take a different job at a company that you felt was better for you and your long-term career goals?

Yes. After serving 6 years as an F-16 pilot, including combat service for Operation Desert Storm,  I resigned my commission. I was accepted into an Ivy League Business School where I received my MBA in Strategic Planning and Competitiveness. I worked in Strat Planning for PepsiCo then Corporate Development for GE Capital. I took a line role with GE Capital, ultimately becoming the COO for a major business in Tokyo (I speak Japanese.) When 9/11 happened I told my wife I needed to get into the fight, a decision she supported whole heartedly. I went to GE and told them I was resigning in order to return to military service. Though they offered a leave of absence I felt it was best to free up the spot for others. I have been flying A-10's ever since, including 6 combat deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan. The wife told me she would not endure another deployment and therefore ordered me to stand down, which I have now done. She is now with the Gates Foundation after many years at Microsoft so I am comfortable being a kept man for the time being.

Every time I made a transition it was with dignity and I was meticulous about ensuring every aspect of my leaving was done with precision. I never left any employer or colleague in the lurch. I have no problem with anyone making a change. Character dictates we handle such transitions with scrupulous care for the people and organization you are leaving. Did Maymon think of anyone but himself when he bolted as he did? Did Tom Crean demonstrate any consideration when he left Marquette? I am confident I can meet any former colleague or employer and receive a gracious reception. I would not allow it to be otherwise.

[hairy worthen]

served his country well

integrity, principles

Screen porch the reward

[pbiflyer]

He made a commitment to his teammates. That is something we understand very well. Jeronne Maymon broke ranks and betrayed his brotherhood. His actions were despicable.

So, any player that transfers is despicable? Or are there valid reasons?
What makes Maymon any different than any other transfer?  And, of course, you are totally aware of all the details that went on in the move, correct? Otherwise, such sweeping statements would be.....despicable.

[MerrittsMustache]

Every time I made a transition it was with dignity and I was meticulous about ensuring every aspect of my leaving was done with precision. I never left any employer or colleague in the lurch. I have no problem with anyone making a change. Character dictates we handle such transitions with scrupulous care for the people and organization you are leaving. Did Maymon think of anyone but himself when he bolted as he did? Did Tom Crean demonstrate any consideration when he left Marquette? I am confident I can meet any former colleague or employer and receive a gracious reception. I would not allow it to be otherwise.

First of all, I can't put into words how thankful I am for people like you who risk their lives to protect our freedom. Thank you.

That being said, Jeronne Maymon did not sign up for the military. He received a college scholarship to play basketball. In my mind, those two things are not comparable. The decisions that he made in his daily life and his decision to transfer did not put anyone's life at risk, nor was his life at risk when he made those decisions. Yes, he could have handled his departure in a better way but, from what I understand, it wasn't necessarily his decision to leave. That is one aspect of this situation that you appear to be overlooking. Maymon's overbearing father basically told him it was time to go and he went. If you want to question the motives and behaviors of the elder Maymon I doubt you'd get much pushback, but I don't think it's fair to blame a 19-year-old KID who took his father's advice.

I guess I question whether you think that all players who transfer are selfish people who are betraying brotherhood or if your big problem is with the way that Jeronne left. For example, do you think that Dwyane Wade's decision to leave school early for the NBA was breaking ranks because he did not honor his 4-year commitment to play at MU?

[Lennys Tap]

So, any player that transfers is despicable? Or are there valid reasons?
What makes Maymon any different than any other transfer?  And, of course, you are totally aware of all the details that went on in the move, correct? Otherwise, such sweeping statements would be.....despicable.

I don't pretend to speak for Warthog, but leaving in the middle of the season is analagous to desertion while under fire. A transfer before or after the season is much different as it gives both the player and his former team (unit) a chance to adjust and prepare.