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MU Avenue

The losses to Duke and Gonzaga could not have proved more clearly Marquette's dire need of a big man who can score, rebound, intimidate and block a shot now and again.

Opponents have no reason to worry about or fear Marquette near the basket.

Josey Wales

Agreed, gardner is at least a year away from being a real force. I'm starting to fear Otule may never be.
BEARS STILL SUCK

Hey Vikings, I like what you've done with the basement.

"Lazar Hayward. The L stands for leader, and the W stands for winner, Lazar Hayward is a winner."

Doris Burkes Thong

SUre, we could use another big man. That's no secret. However, we lost both games because we were putrid from beyond the arc and just didn't play smart basketball(i.e. Buycks and DJO not giving up the ball on fastbreaks). Our interior play was worse last year.

mu_hilltopper

Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on November 23, 2010, 09:03:51 PM
SUre, we could use another big man. That's no secret. However, we lost both games because we were putrid from beyond the arc and just didn't play smart basketball(i.e. Buycks and DJO not giving up the ball on fastbreaks). Our interior play was worse last year.

+1

Jam Chowder

Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on November 23, 2010, 09:03:51 PM
SUre, we could use another big man. That's no secret. However, we lost both games because we were putrid from beyond the arc and just didn't play smart basketball(i.e. Buycks and DJO not giving up the ball on fastbreaks). Our interior play was worse last year.

Well said.

4everwarriors

Why would you need a big man when we have so many guards?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU Avenue

#6
Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on November 23, 2010, 09:03:51 PM
SUre, we could use another big man. That's no secret. However, we lost both games because we were putrid from beyond the arc and just didn't play smart basketball(i.e. Buycks and DJO not giving up the ball on fastbreaks). Our interior play was worse last year.

Doris Burkes Thong, I agree that Marquette suffered serious shooting, free throw and rebounding problems against Duke and Gonzaga. But those deficiencies only magnified Marquette's need of a big man who would demand defenders' attention and make things happen near the hoop.

Marquette must rely so extensively on outside shooting because it has no one who can score consistently closer to the hoop. Marquette is doomed, therefore, when that outside shooting is not working.

A skilled big man would make a huge difference.

(Doris Burkes Thong: Your name means what?)

WarriorHal

Marquette must rely so extensively on outside shooting because it has no one who can score consistently closer to the hoop. Marquette is doomed, therefore, when that outside shooting is not working.

A skilled big man would make a huge difference.


True, no doubt about it. Gardner has shown the potential to be that type of inside scorer. Unfortunately, he had to play Mon. & Tue. with a sprained left shoulder against what I assume was the highest level of competition he's ever faced. I think he's going to be an excellent player for us, particularly on offense.

79Warrior

Quote from: Uff da on November 23, 2010, 09:01:09 PM
Agreed, gardner is at least a year away from being a real force. I'm starting to fear Otule may never be.

starting to feel? He is about as good as he is going to get.

His 4th foul was an unbelievably stupid foul.

PE8983

"Our interior play was worse last year."

Disagree with this completely - I would take Lazar in the middle over anyone we have this year.  Offensively, he drew bigs out of the paint, and opened up the passing lanes because nobody could play zone against us.  His defensive presence in the paint last year is something we are going to really miss this year.  If it wasn't obvious tonight, it will become evident in early January.

muhoops1

OMG.  We should recruit a center!  Someone tell Buzz!  Joe True lives!

PE8983

Hey Joe - you're hilarious.  Way to insert your own worthless crap.

Markusquette

Rebounding is a lot about getting position and boxing out.  Sure, a tall guy is going to help, but there's no excuse for allowing so many offensive rebounds.  We need to do a better job of rebounding, because it's not all about size.  We could certainly use a dominant big game, but we can definitely improve as a team now and get better at things that make up for the lack of a super-skilled big man.

El Duderino

I'll take a big man that's just a very strong rebounder and be happy.

willie warrior

Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on November 23, 2010, 09:03:51 PM
SUre, we could use another big man. That's no secret. However, we lost both games because we were putrid from beyond the arc and just didn't play smart basketball(i.e. Buycks and DJO not giving up the ball on fastbreaks). Our interior play was worse last year.
No, we lost both games because we were killed inside and on the glass.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

Markusquette

Quote from: willie warrior on November 24, 2010, 01:19:19 AM
No, we lost both games because we were killed inside and on the glass.

Yeah, couldn't stop Plumlee at all.  Needed to get those rebounds cause he got a lot of easy baskets down low and offensive boards.  Can't stop them all, but hope we can do better vs other big guys.

MU Avenue

Quote from: willie warrior on November 24, 2010, 01:19:19 AM
No, we lost both games because we were killed inside and on the glass.

I share willie warrior's opinion that Marquette lost close games to Duke and Gonzaga -- games Marquette could have won -- because Marquette was "killed inside and on the glass."

Yes, our outside and free throw shooting were problematic in each game, which helped cement the losses. But the absence of a skilled, reliable big man is what ultimately makes Marquette a team that can be defeated.

The close scores against Duke and Gonzaga are encouraging, of course. Without a big man, Marquette almost beat two of the better teams in the land.

The difference in those games: Our opponents had strong, skilled big men while Marquette had none.

GGGG

If we could only combine Otule's size with Gardner's hands.

But I will say, Sacre in particular killed us because we weren't really doing a good job boxing him out.  There were a couple times that we actually had inside position but simply failed to box him out.

willie warrior

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 24, 2010, 06:36:22 AM
If we could only combine Otule's size with Gardner's hands.

But I will say, Sacre in particular killed us because we weren't really doing a good job boxing him out.  There were a couple times that we actually had inside position but simply failed to box him out.
It wasn't only Sacre--two other of their guys really killed us on the glass.
There were numerous three offensive rebound gets on sequences by Gonzaga. Crowder is way too undersized to play post. Otule does not box out, and has terrible hands in those mixes. gardner actually played better D when he was in there.
This has been an ongoing problem, and Buzz has not solved it.

Buzz's answer last night, Otule gets third foul early in 2nd half--he stays in; Otule later gets his 4th foul--he stays in. Yet as soon as DJO gets his 2nd foul, he is jerked out of the game. What is up with that? C'mon man!
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

augoman

I had to miss the telecast but feared Sacre would kill us inside after watching him against KS.  He looked like what I expected from McMorrow a few years back.  Very disappointed reading the posts- the constant phone updates from friends almost ruined my evening, and now things are confirmed.
I agree, but so do we all, that a skilled big would be sweet.  I'll go one further and say that a 'not-so-skilled' but smart big would be the answer.  I can't help but remember Chris Grimm shutting down UW at Madison's talented big (name escapes me) allowing MU to beat one of their most successful teams ever.  If we had a guy like Chris, we could use Gardner as a 4 and really have an inside presence at both ends.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: MU Avenue on November 23, 2010, 08:52:10 PM
The losses to Duke and Gonzaga could not have proved more clearly Marquette's dire need of a big man who can score, rebound, intimidate and block a shot now and again.

Opponents have no reason to worry about or fear Marquette near the basket.

Do you think we could have won either game this past two days?

I'm firmly in the camp that not only could we have, we should have won at least one.  We can't shoot, play poor perimeter defense, and do not attack a zone very well.  Another big would be great, but those games were there to be won without another big man.

augoman

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 24, 2010, 01:10:26 PM
Do you think we could have won either game this past two days?

I'm firmly in the camp that not only could we have, we should have won at least one.  We can't shoot, play poor perimeter defense, and do not attack a zone very well.  Another big would be great, but those games were there to be won without another big man.

Well said, and although true- I still believe we have a glaring weakness.

ChicosBailBonds

We have a number of weaknesses.  It's always going to be true that we need a 5 star, top gun big man but so do 335 of the 350 DI teams out there.  Not enough supply.

In the meantime, we have weaknesses that need to be addressed with the guys we have.

ATL MU Warrior

Quote from: augoman on November 24, 2010, 01:08:00 PM
I had to miss the telecast but feared Sacre would kill us inside after watching him against KS.  He looked like what I expected from McMorrow a few years back.  Very disappointed reading the posts- the constant phone updates from friends almost ruined my evening, and now things are confirmed.
I agree, but so do we all, that a skilled big would be sweet.  I'll go one further and say that a 'not-so-skilled' but smart big would be the answer.  I can't help but remember Chris Grimm shutting down UW at Madison's talented big (name escapes me) allowing MU to beat one of their most successful teams ever.  If we had a guy like Chris, we could use Gardner as a 4 and really have an inside presence at both ends.
Great job dude...you just called our big guys totally unskilled and stupid.  The big guys on the team you supposedly root for...and you call them unskilled and stupid.  Stay classy my friend.  

Freeport Warrior

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 24, 2010, 01:10:26 PM
Do you think we could have won either game this past two days?

I'm firmly in the camp that not only could we have, we should have won at least one.  We can't shoot, play poor perimeter defense, and do not attack a zone very well.  Another big would be great, but those games were there to be won without another big man.
Agree.  A big man didn't hold us back from winning either game. Like my 10-year-old said during the game "how can they expect to get a rebound if they don't put a body on them?" Rebounding is more effort than anything, and we didn't have enough of it either day. From a big man perspective, I am psyched we have Gardner for 4 years. If he buys into Buzz's system, loses some lbs and transforms his body, he will be a very solid big man for us. You can't teach footwork and hands. I rode the hotel elevator with Tony Benford in KC and he said Gardner was pretty banged up, but the kid "is going to be something special."

It's early, but my bigger concern is the lack of shooters -- when you have Cadougan, Blue and Otule out there, you have three guys very hesitant on shooting at all. Cadougan is a solid distributor, but he has a decent shot and should look for it more. Blue plays great D, but he looks like he's playing hot potato out there -- it's like he doesn't want the ball in his hands. Hopefully, the real DJO will step up soon.





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