Impressions

[El Duderino]

Here's the official box score

Points in the Paint:
Duke 48
MU 44

http://www.gomarquette.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/mu-duke_box

Interesting that 2nd chance points were even at 16 a piece.

As is often the case in a loss, many fans see the negatives more than the positives which leads to skewed perspectives on what they saw until the actual stats come out.

No question that Plumlee really hurt MU on the offensive boards in the last 10 minutes, especially right around the time that the score got tied at 57. That said, we certainly got our share of second chance points and points in the paint which kept us in the game given that the three point shooting was so poor.

Duke presents a lot of challenges to any defense. They have multiple good perimeter shooters, they have guys who can penetrate, and Plumlee is tough to top in the paint. We did force 19 turnovers though and you won't see many other teams this year who will be able to force Duke into that many turnovers.

[DaCoach]

Plumlee was the difference maker. That and DJOs lack of 1st half offense. Crowder is tenacious but he can'st play good defense against a 6-11 big man. In the end, the team again showed much more than almost everyone expected against Duke. Enjoy the progress and expect this team to make all of us proud this year.

And for those complaining about the constant subbing by Buzz, get over it. He did a masterful job in a key game.

[caltruda]

Coach Williams had mentioned after the South Dakota game that the defense was at times "too flat" in which teams were able to a) reverse the ball with relative ease or b) be able to throw the ball into the low post with the offensive player in good position. This area of defense appears to be a work in progress, especially down low with Gardner, Otule and Crowder still learning their way through it. I know they had 11 steals, but a good portion of them were active hands down low versus jumping the passing lanes.

There will likely come a point when they, individually as defenders, will be more confident in denying at a 45-degree angle to force the entry pass to come over the top and have the help defender in the paint contribute. That is what the non-conference schedule is for, and it will be interesting to see how the trio responds against a Gonzaga team that has legit low-post options but also going forward the rest of the season.

We talk about Buzz learning his way through rotations with his substitutions, but there is also a learning period for the players themselves with those same rotations. I think this will play itself out logically, with uneven moments and gradual improvement depending on their comfort levels and grasp of the concept. I also think that all three will get it since Buzz has proven adept at having his teams gel quickly.

I thought Cadougan played a solid offensive game and is also still in the learning process defensively. He is essentially still a freshman, but this game showed him as a pure "1" with regards to running the offense. I like where his game is going. If he plays a floor general game like Carl Krauser did at Pitt, I will take that for three more years (minus the X after the made 3 of course).

At the expense of sounding like Murff, Blue looks like he has to go up more vertically with his 3-point shot. I know he made one, but it looked like he was making a 45-degree angle with his body. Again, simply an observation.

I do enjoy the fact we have two legit low-post options in Otule and Gardner, and I look forward to watching them make their games more well-rounded.

There is a lot to like about this team, and I think that we have coaches who are also teachers bodes incredibly well. I also hope to see a little of Erik Williams versus Gonzaga since I think his length can provide some quality in spot minutes.

[JPapi2525]

Anyone else think Vander's shooting form looked a little off last night? I believe he shot three 3's, (made one of them) but each time it looked very fidgety, as if he rushed his shot way too much. Might be freshman jitters, but I don't recall his shot looking like that from previous games and high school highlights.

I love the kid, I love what he brings to the table. Hopefully the coaching staff keeps working on his shot/shooting form so he can become the dynamic player we all hope he can be.

Second thought, I was surprised not to see Reggie out there as a change of pace player against Duke's quick guards. Don't get me wrong, I was ecstatic to see the performance JC put on out there, and I'm sure hoping he can soon be in the starting lineup at the point, I would just rather see Reggie handling the ball as the back up, and utilize Buycks off the ball.

The guys played tough, can't wait to see what they bring to the table tonight, as well as the rest of the season.

[GGGG]

Only had two more PF's, which I'll chalk up to ref bias as much as anything. 

There was no ref bias.  They had more PF because we were fouling them at the end of the game.

[Da 'Lanche]

Long time viewer, first time poster.  Graduated from MU in 1988....suffered helplessly through the Majerus to Dukiet transition.

Anyway, was at the game last night and just to add a couple of thoughts.   Vander Blue, while behind on offense, does make a huge difference on defense.   That is almost a luxury to have a true freshman with the athletic skills to guard just about anyone effectively...not make cheap fouls, get steals, loose balls and hound the ball.   His offense will catch up.  After the game Coach K (before heading to the showers with Dickie V) actually talked to Vander the longest...perhaps he was in on his recruitment early.

The DJO charge was a killer in the second half (and horrible call) but this game did not come down to officiating...MU looked like it took a while to get out of the Duke fear factor and once they started playing a team not a uniform they were fine.  A few knocked down open shots and it may have been different (btw, some cringe at Blue shooting...what is Crowder doing launching multiple 3s?)

The other impression is one off the court.   Buzz sat a bout 4 rows ahead of us midway through the first half of the K-State/Zags game.   Tyshawn Taylor approached him (in his full KU sweats), sought out Buzz and gave him a huge hug.  Buzz greeted him like he was a long-lost son.  They chatted for a while and I heard Buzz say something to the effect that he is proud of him.   Considering all Tyshawn has gone through at KU (although he looks good this year), I wonder if he ever thinks about "what if" in regards to being released from his scholarship.

The interaction left me impressed with how genuine the interaction and how small a world is D-1 college hoops with coaches and recruits.  Very nice scene.

[GGGG]

The other impression is one off the court.   Buzz sat a bout 4 rows ahead of us midway through the first half of the K-State/Zags game.   Tyshawn Taylor approached him (in his full KU sweats), sought out Buzz and gave him a huge hug.  Buzz greeted him like he was a long-lost son.  They chatted for a while and I heard Buzz say something to the effect that he is proud of him.   Considering all Tyshawn has gone through at KU (although he looks good this year), I wonder if he ever thinks about "what if" in regards to being released from his scholarship.

Thanks for sharing that.  Buzz has every reason to be cool toward Tyshawn, but that is clearly not in his nature.  I really, really like Buzz.

[MerrittsMustache]

My thoughts...

- Plumlee was obviously too much for MU to handle in the post but MU's inability to hit big shots was just as much of a factor in the loss. There were several times where MU was down by 5-9 points in the second half, got an open look from 3 and missed. If they hit just 1 or 2 of those shots, it's a completely different game. Not saying they would have won, but the complexion of the game definitely would have changed.

- The charge on DJO was a brutal call and a 5-point swing (assuming he'd hit the FT).

- Classic case of a team fighting, clawing and scratching their way back into a game, tying the score and then running out of gas. Anyone who has played will tell you that coming from behind takes a lot out of you physically and mentally.

- I predict that once Junior finds his way into the starting line-up, he'll stay there for the rest of the season and beyond. Wouldn't be surprised if that starts tonight. I'd be happy with 5 and 7 from him every night.

- Gardner is a beast but his D and conditioning need to improve...and they will. He showed a lot of heart playing through pain.

- Too many empty possessions. I'd like to see Butler touch the ball on every possession. I'm not saying he needs to shoot it every time but he's clearly the best, most in-control offensive player on the team. In crucial spots, I want the ball in his hands.

- Every once in a while DJO and Buycks get a little antsy, force shots and play out of control. MU can afford to give away 3-4 possessions a game against lesser teams but against Duke and the top-tier BE teams, they can't have it and expect to win.

- Tough loss. Move on. Beat Gonzaga.

[Canadian Dimes]

I thought we played relatively well last night.  Duke is skilled and really pass the ball well and can really finish.

Clearly the difference in the game was Plumlee.  Sadly, I felt we did a very very poor job putting a body on him.  Crowder is no where near the post defender that Lazar was and got abused by Plumlee.  This left Buzz to use Otule or Devante.  While Devante is supremely more talented offensively I on numerous occassions in the second half hoped Buzz would go back to Otule as Plumlee got numerous rebounds with Gardner next to him after failing to box out or put any type of body on him.  Gardner got a grand total of 0 defensive rebounds last night.  Yes he scored but he gave up more than he got. 

Now before anyone flies off the handle, I realize Devante is a Freshman playing in his 5th game... I also realize Plumlee is possibly the best 5 we will see this year.  i have watched the Plumlee kids play since they were grade schoolers.  I also realize that while Otules defensive strenght, length and positioning are better than Gardners he also had 2-3 gift wrapped rebounds go off his hands.  It is picck your poison with those two right now.  Both have a ton of potential and I think next year both could be really good. But we lost the game last night becuase we were simply abused at the 5.  Plumlee had 25 plus a number of assists and kept the ball alive a number of other times that led to baskets.     

I felt Junior played really well last night.  His defense was solid and his passing was excellent, he executes the screen and roll really really well.  Buycks needs to back up Junior, DJO, and Vander.  Buycks focus needs to be when backing up Junior to hanve the role and mindset of acker or Cubi last year ...that is just dont turn the ball over.  He had that series of atrocious decioson making that led to Dukes game winning run.  he hgave Duke the ball twice in a row near mid court for layups......


All in all a good game for MU some second half mistakes but I think after we settled down we played very well with a very very good team.  i think we should destroy Gonzaga tonite.

[Hards Alumni]

I thought we played relatively well last night.  Duke is skilled and really pass the ball well and can really finish.

Clearly the difference in the game was Plumlee.  Sadly, I felt we did a very very poor job putting a body on him.  Crowder is no where near the post defender that Lazar was and got abused by Plumlee.  This left Buzz to use Otule or Devante.  While Devante is supremely more talented offensively I on numerous occassions in the second half hoped Buzz would go back to Otule as Plumlee got numerous rebounds with Gardner next to him after failing to box out or put any type of body on him.  Gardner got a grand total of 0 defensive rebounds last night.  Yes he scored but he gave up more than he got. 

Now before anyone flies off the handle, I realize Devante is a Freshman playing in his 5th game... I also realize Plumlee is possibly the best 5 we will see this year.  i have watched the Plumlee kids play since they were grade schoolers.  I also realize that while Otules defensive strenght, length and positioning are better than Gardners he also had 2-3 gift wrapped rebounds go off his hands.  It is picck your poison with those two right now.  Both have a ton of potential and I think next year both could be really good. But we lost the game last night becuase we were simply abused at the 5.  Plumlee had 25 plus a number of assists and kept the ball alive a number of other times that led to baskets.     

I felt Junior played really well last night.  His defense was solid and his passing was excellent, he executes the screen and roll really really well.  Buycks needs to back up Junior, DJO, and Vander.  Buycks focus needs to be when backing up Junior to hanve the role and mindset of acker or Cubi last year ...that is just dont turn the ball over.  He had that series of atrocious decioson making that led to Dukes game winning run.  he hgave Duke the ball twice in a row near mid court for layups......


All in all a good game for MU some second half mistakes but I think after we settled down we played very well with a very very good team.  i think we should destroy Gonzaga tonite.

Generally, I agree with this fair assessment.

[chren21]

Was it me or did all the big men, including Butler let guys just go to the rim for layups without fouling?  We were not in that big of foul trouble at all.  Butler finished with 3 and DJO with 3 everyone else 2 or less.  I guess I can understand Butler not wanting to pick up his 4th but Crowder needs to make Plumlee earn those baskets down the stretch.  Letting him turn and just lay it in does not cut it.  Kill him and make him make 2 throws as a worst case.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Anyone else think Vander's shooting form looked a little off last night? I believe he shot three 3's, (made one of them) but each time it looked very fidgety, as if he rushed his shot way too much. Might be freshman jitters, but I don't recall his shot looking like that from previous games and high school highlights.

I thought the exact same thing. And I had the same thought that at times he looked a little nervous out there. I think that's understandable and that's why he's a freshman. I'm encouraged by him.

As to the rebounding, I don't care what the numbers were, we have up way too many offensive rebounds and, to me, they all seemed to be in crucial spots...when we were closing on them or tied.

I'm not unhappy with the performance, but I don't understand posters saying they're "happy" we kept it close. I'm not happy. I'm just not pissed off.

I thought that was one ofthe best games Jimmy Butler has played in his entire careeer. When you consider the stage, the opponent and the fact that much of the rest of our team wasn't playing great offensively, it was impressive. Happy for him as I understand there were about 4 dozen scouts at the game.

Once DJO gets going, we're going to be very good.

[T-Bone]

From http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/11/22/duke-82-marquette-77
Interesting:  "This game was statistically over in the 2nd half with 0:56 left to go."

We did better on offensive rebounding percentage than Duke.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/game_stats

We were below average on all offensive stats other than Steals - but really not too much, aside from rebounding. 
Defensive stats were kind of blah.  We didn't draw as many fouls, gave up 25% more rebounds, but Duke's 3pt % was lower than average.  And they shot 54%. 
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/game_stats

Compared to the level of previous competition, these numbers look pretty good.  (Yes, we need to improve, but better than expected.)

I'd like a second chance at these guys.  I think the young 'ens got their feet wet in a big way.  I have to believe these kids now think they can take on anyone.  Hopefully this game will be a huge confidence builder. 

I didn't see Buycks revert to his previous ways as much as some people.  It seems like a similar progression to what Jerel did a few years back.  There is a lot of playground in him still, but I think you put the two Buycks in the same game - last year's model would have been chaos and he wouldn't have been in as much. 

Otule seemed a giant bundle of nerves.  He was in position to make plays.  (I don't recall him being out of position at all really)  Being in the right spot is half the battle.  The other half is mental.  He'll get there (he's got two more years after this one [yes, we need him now, but I think he's got the time and ability to be a beast - barring injury]).

Blue seemed a little lost, but I wasn't paying close attention to his defense.  Defense doesn't get the credit it's due. 

[Lennys Tap]

Thanks for sharing that.  Buzz has every reason to be cool toward Tyshawn, but that is clearly not in his nature.  I really, really like Buzz.

Totally agree. Hope Buzz's friendliness towards Taylor isn't misconstrued by any of our posters - wouldn't want any unnecessary squirmin'.

[Canadian Dimes]

Totally agree. Hope Buzz's friendliness towards Taylor isn't misconstrued by any of our posters - wouldn't want any unnecessary squirmin'.

Anyone that would try to read anything negative into that is an agenda based loser. 

How and why would those two have any negative feelings towards each other?  Buzz recruited the kid for a year spents dozens of hours on the phone with him.  Hours upon hours meeting with him and his family and developed a close enough relationship with the young man for him to decide that he wanted to spend the next four years of his life at Maquette and that MU was inded the best place for him to further his dream of playing professional basketball.

Then a series of events occur that provide Tayshawn an opportunity to play for the defending antional champions and arguably the premier NCAA program and you think that Buzz Willimas would hold that agianst the kid?   

If you beleive that would happen then you are a pretty messed up individual. 

[SalsaMan]

Anyone that would try to read anything negative into that is an agenda based loser.  

Are there agenda-based posters here?

[muwarrior69]

Wow! Gardner is the best "big" since Robert Jackson. He is only a freshman, played hurt, and still contributed. I got a feeling we have something special, if he stays healthy.

[Pakuni]

Newbill, who had 13 points and 11 rebounds tonight.

Is "Newbill" the new "first?"

[Canadian Dimes]

I think what Newbills intitial success shows is that Buzz Willimas is a freaking recruiting and talent assessment STUD!!

Buzzs ability to go get guys that are not top 100 types and separate the cans from the cannots is remarkable.  I guess all things even out after our last coach seemed to lack any ability in that area whatso ever. 

Guys like crowder, Butler, DJO, originally were met with disdain and contempt from many on this and other boards.  I have learned to put my trust into his signings.  Guys like Otule, gardner, Smith were not top 100 guys either but look like they will be big time high major players. 

Then the guys that we had or missed that were not top 100 guys are doing well at there respective schools all over the map.  As i stated in july August and October as many were fretting over MU's recruiting, " i have no idea who we sign , but I bet they will be really good".  I have tremendous confidence that Anderson, wilson and whomever else we sign will be very good.

Long gone are the days of Bell, Berkowitz, Kinsella, Lott, and on and on and on...

[GGGG]

I thought the exact same thing. And I had the same thought that at times he looked a little nervous out there. I think that's understandable and that's why he's a freshman. I'm encouraged by him.

He is going to be just fine.  The fact that he is starting and Buzz has them out there in crunch time says to me that Buzz trusts him to do exactly what he is asking of him at this point in time.  He will come on this year, and will make great strides moving forward.  A very good basketball player.

[Henry Sugar]

One of the things that stands out for Vander is that I think his adaptation rate is very high.  IIRC, Buzz said that he only needs to tell Vander something once and he'll pick it up.

Vander started off poorly but got a lot better in the second half last night.

1H
0-2, 1 TO, 1 steal

2H
2-4, 4 Reb, 1 Assist, 1 steal, 1 PF  

One of those made FGs was a layup in the final minute of the game.  Still, he was a ton better with his contributions in the second half.  Wouldn't surprise me if he had a stronger game tonight.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Here's the official box score

Points in the Paint:
Duke 48
MU 44

http://www.gomarquette.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/mu-duke_box

Interesting that 2nd chance points were even at 16 a piece.

I like to look at PIP+FTM as a stat as it is a sign of a team taking it to the hole.  

Duke 48+6=54
MU  44+11=55

My key stat:  our poor perimeter shooting led to long rebounds for Duke break outs....fast break points were 15-8 Duke.  

[Da 'Lanche]

Totally agree. Hope Buzz's friendliness towards Taylor isn't misconstrued by any of our posters - wouldn't want any unnecessary squirmin'.

I was equally impressed that Taylor would seek out Buzz and he looked very humble and engaged.  It was a brief observation but, unless Buzz is near machiavellian in terms of phoniness, he really looks like he authentically cares about these kids and the game.  His enthusiasm is obvious...not over the top but very evident.   I am proud he is representing MU.   

Way way off topic...I did go to an early KU game this year and Taylor is a pretty talented player.   He could have been a nice fit at MU.   

[MerrittsMustache]

I was equally impressed that Taylor would seek out Buzz and he looked very humble and engaged.  It was a brief observation but, unless Buzz is near machiavellian in terms of phoniness, he really looks like he authentically cares about these kids and the game.  His enthusiasm is obvious...not over the top but very evident.   I am proud he is representing MU.   

Way way off topic...I did go to an early KU game this year and Taylor is a pretty talented player.   He could have been a nice fit at MU.   

I can't remember. Who did MU add after Taylor decommitted? Was it DJO?

[GGGG]

I can't remember. Who did MU add after Taylor decommitted? Was it DJO?

No DJO didn't commit until almost a year later.  Taylor decommited in April 2008, DJO signed in spring 2009.

After Taylor's decommit, we got verbals from McMorrow, Maymon and Cadougan within three months or so.