DeCourcy on BE- Calls out MU

[Pakuni]

The BCS hearings before Congress were met with a collective "Why are you wasting your time doing this?" when Hatch sponsored them before.  Congress will bluster, but in the end won't do anything...especially since the Pac 12 will include Utah.

But not Hatch's alma mater, BYU. Or Utah State, Harry Reid's alma mater, for that matter. Or Boise State, UNLV, Hawaii and many others with some influence in their home states.
If the BCS schools break off, they would have abandoned all pretense that their athletics departments are part of an "educational program," but rather are for-profit corporations. As for-profit operations, they very easily could (and should, IMO) be stripped of their tax-exempt status. As would the bowl games they provide them with their millions in revenue. As would any basketball tournament established to compete with the NCAA tournament. And, of course, all the TV contracts they feed them most of their money would be subject to taxation.
That's a lot of money walking out the door, quite possibly too much to make it a profitable venture.

[NotAnAlum]

Another thought.  If the BCS tried to break off and yet continue to get prefered tax treatment as an "educational" assoication wouldn't they run into issues with all the equal opportunities for women stuff that the NCAA has to deal with.  NCAA schools already have to "waste" a bunch of revenue supporting non-revenue sports just to have equal opportunties for women.  So would the BCS have to end up with Men's football + womens volleyball, softball, fencing etc etc just to make everything come out equal?

[MarquetteDano]

But not Hatch's alma mater, BYU. Or Utah State, Harry Reid's alma mater, for that matter. Or Boise State, UNLV, Hawaii and many others with some influence in their home states.
If the BCS schools break off, they would have abandoned all pretense that their athletics departments are part of an "educational program," but rather are for-profit corporations. As for-profit operations, they very easily could (and should, IMO) be stripped of their tax-exempt status. As would the bowl games they provide them with their millions in revenue. As would any basketball tournament established to compete with the NCAA tournament. And, of course, all the TV contracts they feed them most of their money would be subject to taxation.
That's a lot of money walking out the door, quite possibly too much to make it a profitable venture.

I agree 100% with Pakuni.  If the BCS ever attempted to split off there will be congressional hearings.  And they wouldn't be pretty.  Congress will make the BCS look like the oil executives or wall street (whether it was fair or not) the way smaller schools got pushed to the curb.  Media and the guy on the street would side against the BCS.  It would be a public relations catastrophe for the BCS.

[77ncaachamps]

Yes, the BCS would be portrayed as the ones who killed NCAA sports programs.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5763731

[Pakuni]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5763731

Love that these guys can't seem to offer a defense for themselves beyond the old "it's a waste of money" argument. I'm sure we could come up with hundreds of more egregious examples of government waste than investigating an antitrust claim.
Maybe the real waste of money, Bill, is failing over the years to collect potentially millions in tax revenues off your employers' business operations.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have a very soft spot in my heart for Bill.  Worked with him for two NCAA regionals at the Bradley Center...his son was later killed on the plane that crashed with the Oklahoma State basketball team.  He's a good man, but unfortunately he's been asked to be a front man for the BCS and make an argument that can't stand on the merits (and I believe he knows it).

On the other hand, I don't like it when gov't interferes into most things.

[Pakuni]

I have a very soft spot in my heart for Bill.  Worked with him for two NCAA regionals at the Bradley Center...his son was later killed on the plane that crashed with the Oklahoma State basketball team.  He's a good man, but unfortunately he's been asked to be a front man for the BCS and make an argument that can't stand on the merits (and I believe he knows it).

On the other hand, I don't like it when gov't interferes into most things.

That's fine, and I mean to attack the message more than the messenger.
Not to turn this into a political discussion, but government already interferes with college athletics by helping to fund member institutions and granting tax-exempt status for the substantial revenues athletics generate.
If they really wanted government to leave them alone and act free of oversight, then they should ask to be treated like any other business enterprise. But that's something of which they want no part.

[ChicosBailBonds]

For most institutions (vast majority), that is correct, but not all NCAA members receive federal aid.

[GGGG]

The problem I have is that clearly the bcs schools are the kings os revenue and largely drive the market. I guess I don't understand how they are anti-competitive. I mean the non-bcs schools get crappy bowl tie-ins for a reason. The utah/tcu game is on cbs college for a reason. It isn't ani-competitive. Its demand for what the market has determined to be a superior product.

[GGGG]

To follow up, what prevents say the Liberty Bowl from offering tens of millions every year to the winners of the CUSA and the WAC?  Because they can't. ESPN won't pay that much for the game. Sponsors won't step up. The marketplace doesn't want to see it. They want Alabama and Ohio State.

Honestly it could be argued that the bcs helps the likes of Boise more than it hurts them. They've gotten millions more than they would have received in the open market.

[Benny B]

For most institutions (vast majority), that is correct, but not all NCAA members receive federal aid.

Example?

[Benny B]

To follow up, what prevents say the Liberty Bowl from offering tens of millions every year to the winners of the CUSA and the WAC?  Because they can't. ESPN won't pay that much for the game. Sponsors won't step up. The marketplace doesn't want to see it. They want Alabama and Ohio State.

Honestly it could be argued that the bcs helps the likes of Boise more than it hurts them. They've gotten millions more than they would have received in the open market.

So if the marketplace wants the Yankees and Dodgers in the World Series every year, we just say to hell with the playoffs and give the viewers what's most in demand??  Personally, if I want to watch a sport where the whole thing is rigged, I'll tune into WWE.

Then again, WWE does happen to be quite popular amongst fans of both Alabama and Ohio State... coincidence?

[Pakuni]

To follow up, what prevents say the Liberty Bowl from offering tens of millions every year to the winners of the CUSA and the WAC?  Because they can't. ESPN won't pay that much for the game. Sponsors won't step up. The marketplace doesn't want to see it. They want Alabama and Ohio State.

Honestly it could be argued that the bcs helps the likes of Boise more than it hurts them. They've gotten millions more than they would have received in the open market.

But the BCS teams can't - or at least shouldn't be allowed to - argue that they're simply following the demands of the free market on one hand while expecting federal money and tax exemptions on the other. They're incompatible positions.
If those teams want to break off on their own, fine. But they should do so without the taxpayer-funded benefits they now receive. Why the heck should taxpayers help fund an exclusive club that benefits only its members?
If the BCS programs want to continue receiving the equivalent of corporate welfare - and it's dubious that they get it in the first place - then they must also accept some level of federal oversight and dictates. And I think most believe that should include a system under which more than just a select few have an opportunity to compete for national championships and elite bowls. If they want to go off on their own, then they should truly be off on their own. My guess is the majority of BCS programs - which earn less than $10 million a year in net income - wouldn't be too happy losing their tax exemption and other federal assistance.
Let's see how Texas feels about pay a 35 percent corporate tax on its $65 million football profit. Or Iowa on the $12 million it made from football last year. Or Purdue on its $5.6 million. Methinks they wouldn't be preaching about the open market then. I think they'd rather suffer the occasional BCS bowl appearance by Boise State or TCU.

[GGGG]

So if the marketplace wants the Yankees and Dodgers in the World Series every year, we just say to hell with the playoffs and give the viewers what's most in demand?? 

Anti-trust law doesn't govern the best way to dole out championships, it governs restraint of trade.  The BCS as a method of determining a champion sucks.  Everyone knows this. If MLB decided to determine its World Series participants through an online poll, it would be stupid, but it wouldn't raise the ire of the Justice Department.

[GGGG]

Pakuni, I don't think you understand one basic thing.  If you get rid of the BCS as it currently stands, and revert back to the old system with a few tie-ins and the rest being a free-for-all, Boise and their types have no chance at all to get to major bowls.  The biggest and most prestigious bowls are going to select the teams that give them the largest audience to keep their sponsors happy.  And if you decide to tax those bowls, you are just going to make it worse because they'll now need to earn even more money.

The Pre-BCS era is *loaded* with teams that got no chance at the big money bowl games...BYU in 1984 played in the Holiday Bowl, Tulane in 1998 played in the Liberty Bowl.  Both ended the season undefeated, but didn't play in the Rose, Fiesta, Sugar or any other bowl with major pay-outs.

The only reason people complain about the BCS now is because it is a sham way for determining a champion.  But don't let that cloud your thinking about how and why the Department of Justice should be investigating it for anti-trust reasons.  The BCS actually gives those teams a bigger chance now at $$$ than the old system did.

And if you want to tax intercolligiate athletics, that is a completely seperate issue.  Why you would want "federal oversight" when no federal dollars go to athletics, but basically to research and student aid, is beyond me.

[Tsnmike]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

[tower912]

Thanks for stopping by.   It is an honor.   As is the case with nearly every message board, we had some who read it one way and assumed you were trashing MU.   Others didn't and there was a decent discussion.   The way I read it, you were actually commending MU for its success in the BEast, but were questioning the original decision to invite since football dollars drive the system and the BEast now finds itself with a awkward business model.   

[GGGG]

Those who actually read the article understood your point.  Those who simply read the headline, never got it.

[NYWarrior]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

Welcome to the community, Mike.

Best,

TB

[🏀]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

Mike,

Let me reiterate tower's comments, many on this board have trouble comprehending or merely finishing an article at that. I enjoy your writing and thank you for the praise of MU Basketball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

Welcome aboard....you're one of the best (though some people here will say you are a mouthpiece for our former coach). 

[Benny B]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

Check the IP... make sure this isn't Chicos' alter ego or something.

[Benny B]

If MLB decided to determine its World Series participants through an online poll, it would be stupid, but it wouldn't raise the ire of the Justice Department.

Justice Department, probably not since an actual crime isn't being committed, but Washington would certainly get involved if two criteria were satisfied:

1) Public outrage on to which a senator or congressman (or woman) could latch...  I could name 96 senators who would love to be at the forefront (i.e. in the limelight) of this movement.

2) Any excuse - no matter how far fetched - to claim some sort of jurisdiction, oversight or control over the accused... that little "exemption" MLB receives from the gov't would be quite a stretch, but it would definitely be enough to call a hearing.

[Henry Sugar]

It's funny. Cracked Sidewalks led me to believe there was a 4-alarm fire going on over here. But it seems to me you read understood what I said.
I never said Marquette could or should be kicked out of the Big East.
No one should be kicked out of a league, and to my knowledge, no one ever has been at the highest levels.
Marquette is to be congratulated for its spectacular success since joining the Big East. The Golden Eagles certainly have made it a better league. It just seemed to me the league would have fewer headaches right now if that had not happened.
Good luck this season.
MD

Tim said "The MUScoop community is all over this one".  Welcome to the longest thread on the front page.

Marquette is a burden to the Big East.  We're doing really well, but adding us was a mistake.

Thanks for the backhanded compliments.  I think your writing is decent, but it's too bad the Sporting News isn't as good as other content providers.  See what I did there?