regardless of your political views.. MU

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ahhh did you even read my whole post? I'm not saying he wasn't smart. But a bachelors degree in nuclear physics doesn't make you an intellectual...

Nor does a law degree from Harvard.

 

My point was that there are a number of folks on a certain side of the political spectrum that love to throw around things like what rank someone was in school and what school they went to, often saying those candidates for that side are "intellectuals".  It of course comes down to how you define intellectual.

Personally, I don't give a rip if someone went to Harvard or Yale or just went to San Jose State.  There are plenty of people with pretty parchment on the walls from highly acclaimed schools that aren't worth a damn or are so grounded in theory as to know nothing of how the real word works.  Just as there are a number of awfully smart people that didn't go to the best school in the world but understand how the world works.

[Benny B]

Nor does a law degree from Harvard.

 

My point was that there are a number of folks on a certain side of the political spectrum that love to throw around things like what rank someone was in school and what school they went to, often saying those candidates for that side are "intellectuals".  It of course comes down to how you define intellectual.

Personally, I don't give a rip if someone went to Harvard or Yale or just went to San Jose State.  There are plenty of people with pretty parchment on the walls from highly acclaimed schools that aren't worth a damn or are so grounded in theory as to know nothing of how the real word works.  Just as there are a number of awfully smart people that didn't go to the best school in the world but understand how the world works.

The most effective professors I had in b-school were those who spent a decade or more in the business world.

Government itself is a business, so one would think the same would apply to politicians.  And no, "community organizer," part-owner of the Texas Rangers, law professor, movie actor, peanut farmer, cheerleader, and high school teacher do not qualify as "business" experience.  Since Kennedy and Eisenhower basically went from military to politics, that makes George HW Bush the only president we've had with real business experience since Truman.

Sad.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Too bad you weren't around  for the Founding Fathers- nobody would have qualified.  I think politicians should come from all walks of life and bring their particular experiences to the job. Career politicians who give other peoples money out to perpetuate their jobs has not worked.

[Henry Sugar]

Nor does a law business degree from Harvard.

 

My point was that there are a number of folks on a certain side of the political spectrum that love to completely ignore throw around things like what rank someone was in school and what school they went to, often saying those candidates for that side are "intellectuals".  It of course comes down to how you define intellectual.

Personally, I don't give a rip it matters if someone went to Harvard or Yale or just went to San Jose State, but that's not all that matters.  There are plenty of people with pretty parchment on the walls from highly acclaimed schools that aren't worth a damn or are so grounded in theory as to know nothing of how the real word works add a lot of value and insight.  Just as there are a number of awfully smart people that did didn't go to the best school in the world and also understand how the world works.

The other side of the coin.  Your point comes close to anti-intellectualism.  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The bottom line few successful business people would want to leave a lucrative career to work in a field that is overflowing with oddballs. These "career" politicians in Washington DC, serving for 30 and 40 years, are not doing it to "serve the people." They're doing it because the town is the world's largest fraternity row. It's all about social status and cocktail parties. Unfortuntately, most of the people in elective office are such social misfits they think they've died and gone to heaven when they're invited to a party with senators and their wives. You want to work with a guy like Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi or Rand Paul or Mark Kirk? These people are all in it for the status. Business people are in it for the money.

Frankly, MU or no MU, I find Walker to be a complete oddball. Unfortunately, that will probably help him fit right in in Madison.

[Coleman]

The bottom line few successful business people would want to leave a lucrative career to work in a field that is overflowing with oddballs. These "career" politicians in Washington DC, serving for 30 and 40 years, are not doing it to "serve the people." They're doing it because the town is the world's largest fraternity row. It's all about social status and cocktail parties. Unfortuntately, most of the people in elective office are such social misfits they think they've died and gone to heaven when they're invited to a party with senators and their wives. You want to work with a guy like Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi or Rand Paul or Mark Kirk? These people are all in it for the status. Business people are in it for the money.

Frankly, MU or no MU, I find Walker to be a complete oddball. Unfortunately, that will probably help him fit right in in Madison.

I don't disagree with this. Most of the guys who were REALLY into politics at MU...both sides of the spectrum..College Republicans and College Dems...were a little off.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't disagree with this. Most of the guys who were REALLY into politics at MU...both sides of the spectrum..College Republicans and College Dems...were a little off.

I always thought it was interesting how 18 and 19 year old kids already had their minds made up about politics.

Where did they learn? Are they just spouting out what they were taught at home? What viewpoints do they really understand and issues do they really care about? Were they reading different history books and studying elections and party politics?

I'm not saying 18 and 19 year olds can't be intelligent voters (certainly they can), but to identify solely with one political ideology at that age seems crazy to me. I didn't know sh*t when I was that age (other than how to make some sort of Skol vodka concoction with crystal light and the juice from the cafeteria).

I can't imagine carrying a flag for a specific side of the aisle at 18 and really be confident in it. Hell, I don't even know what side I'm on now.

[Ari Gold]

I used to agree with this, but I no longer do.  I'm afraid that term-limits would only give special interests and bureaucracies more power. 

We already have term limits in the constitution. They're called elections (2 years for Reps, 4 years for Pres 6 years for senate ) , and if you dont like how you're being represented than you can vote them out

[Coleman]

We already have term limits in the constitution. They're called elections (2 years for Reps, 4 years for Pres 6 years for senate ) , and if you dont like how you're being represented than you can vote them out

+1

[HoopsMalone]

The most effective professors I had in b-school were those who spent a decade or more in the business world.

I think that experience does mean something, but when I thought that my b-school professor's whose credentials were there experience in the business world tended to just tell you a series of stories about what they did in the business world.  I thought that my professors who were known for publishing and were well versed on theory were far superior in general. 

I think people can be just as elitist about their experiences (which has a lot to do with luck many times) as they can be about their book knowledge.  I think when people are not grounded in theory and don't learn how to think, then they get grounded into certain ways and don't understand when things need to change.

[ATL MU Warrior]

We already have term limits in the constitution. They're called elections (2 years for Reps, 4 years for Pres 6 years for senate ) , and if you dont like how you're being represented than you can vote them out

In my opinion the biggest problem with our government is that elected officials spend as much if not more time campaigning and raising money as actually fulfilling their function of representing the citizenry.  If there was no such thing as being re-elected, don't you think they would spend more time on what really matters and that more would be accomplished?

[Lennys Tap]

The other side of the coin.  Your point comes close to anti-intellectualism.  

William F Buckley Jr (an intellectual by any measure) on the wisdom of "government by academia"- "I would sooner entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people in the Boston phone directory than the faculty at Harvard University" - tongue in cheek, of course, but I'd agree that most of the professors I had wouldn't run things any better (in some cases not as well) as the plumbers, electricians, firemen, etc that I know.

[MUBurrow]

edited and deleted because i realized it had nothing to do with MU

[Henry Sugar]

William F Buckley Jr (an intellectual by any measure) on the wisdom of "government by academia"- "I would sooner entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people in the Boston phone directory than the faculty at Harvard University" - tongue in cheek, of course, but I'd agree that most of the professors I had wouldn't run things any better (in some cases not as well) as the plumbers, electricians, firemen, etc that I know.

Re-read what I wrote.  I'm not in favor of either extreme.  

[Lennys Tap]

Re-read what I wrote.  I'm not in favor of either extreme.  

Agreed. I should have posted the quote "stand alone" rather than as a response to your post.

[augoman]

Interestingly, Northwestern's masters in engineering management program will not accept your application unless you've worked at least two years in your field.  Maybe we should be as particular whom we elect.

[HoopsMalone]

I don't know if there is any job or degree on the planet that could fully prepare one to be POTUS.  You most certainly need to be intelligent, though.  Intelligence is the best predictor of success in almost anything.  Degrees from top schools is a way (but not the only and not sufficient) to show intellectual capacity.  Count me in the category of wanting the president to be smart.  I do not think just anyone can do it at all, and we shouldn't pretend like anyone can get off the couch and apply their mid-level management experience and run the USA. 

Winning an election is about being better than the other person and being able to raise enough money to get your message out, not about being the best person in the country to do the particular job. 

[d6]

For me, the funniest thing going is talk about the "real" world.  Having earned a Ph.D. in the liberal arts and working inside the academy, and now working well outside the academy, I am quite certain that I've been illuminated by both these experiences, as well as any other experiences I've had. Neither experience was more real than the other.  Both presented challenges and struggles to survive and thrive. Who's to say what is real and what is not?  Does somebody have to struggle for it to be real?  Do we really think that there's a big difference between being a community organizer and a small-town mayor? Is running one company the same as another?  Does coming from wealth and running a company or running a start-up change the experience?  Is one better than the other? 

The talk about the real world is bunk.  We all live in it.  Ultimately, intelligence and problem-solving is what matters-------and, from my perspective, we all tend to "recognize" intelligence and know-how when we agree with the person/politician/leader and their viewpoint.........

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm pretty sure there is a difference between being a community organizer and a Governor....fixed it for you

[d6]

Really?  There is probably little difference between being a community organizer and a small-town mayor.  And post election, there is probably little difference between being a half-term Senator and a half-term Governor. 

[HoopsMalone]

The guy did service work in his mid-20s as a community organizer.  Its not like it was his whole resume. 

[d6]

The edit about community organizer vs. Governor goes towards my point (and demonstrates how we can pick and choose what is or isn't an apt comparison): if an Obama supporter, then his work as a community organizer buttresses the rest of his resume, including his work at Harvard, U of C, and as a (short-term)Senator.   If an Obama critic, then it becomes his whole resume.  If a Palin supporter, being a small-town mayor demonstrates her ability to govern, and buttresses her experience as a Governor. Her decision to leave office becomes a smart decision to exert her influence in a larger realm.  A Palin critic could argue that being a small-town mayor of a seemingly remote Alaskan town isn't very impressive nor is her decision to leave office during the middle of her term.  Again, it is our leanings thattend to "determine" what is experience is real and legitimate and which deserve mockery and derision.  

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Well laid out D6 but one's experiences in Community Service are far short of the ever expanding duties and experiences  of a small Town Mayor and then a Governor. Success in one does not predict success in  other loftier positions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Really?  There is probably little difference between being a community organizer and a small-town mayor.  And post election, there is probably little difference between being a half-term Senator and a half-term Governor. 

The problem with Senators throughout our history is that they are not decision makers.  They are policy wonks and compromisers.  They are not CEOs, not people that GOVERN!  There is a huge difference between a governor and a senator.  HUGE.

And yes, there is a HUGE difference between the academic world and the real world. 

[HoopsMalone]

I am not sure Sarah Palin and Barack Obama is an apples to oranges comparison.  The comparison allows people to take what someone did in his mid-20s with what someone did in her professional peak.