Weather contemplation

[tower912]

With the weather in the upper midwest the last couple of days, can you imagine if the first game of the world series was being held in one of the outdoor stadiums?    Geeeeezzzzz.    Target Field, Cellular, Wrigley, Comerica........Oh, my dear sweet Lord.     THAT would have been entertainment.   

[Lighthouse 84]

With the weather in the upper midwest the last couple of days, can you imagine if the first game of the world series was being held in one of the outdoor stadiums?    Geeeeezzzzz.    Target Field, Cellular, Wrigley, Comerica........Oh, my dear sweet Lord.     THAT would have been entertainment.   

Fixed

[Sir Lawrence]

More weather contemplation.  I feel horrible for the family, but the young man tweets instead of getting the heck off the contraption in winds like the Midwest had yesterday? 

[MerrittsMustache]

More weather contemplation.  I feel horrible for the family, but the young man tweets instead of getting the heck off the contraption in winds like the Midwest had yesterday? 

He never should have been allowed to go up in the first place. It's also alarming that he knew it was dangerous even before going up, but he didn't feel like he could go tell that to someone on the coaching staff. I really feel for his family.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What happened?

[chren21]

More weather contemplation.  I feel horrible for the family, but the young man tweets instead of getting the heck off the contraption in winds like the Midwest had yesterday? 

Absoluetly insane.  Lawsuit coming for sure.  The winds were nuts yesterday.  You would think one of the coaches would have had enough sense to realize being 40 feet up in the air in a scissors lift is not a good idea.  There is a warning by the manufacturer that it should not be used in 25 mile an hour winds.

[chren21]

And it is reported that the gusts reached 51 mph in South Bend yesterday.  Chicos...  This guy was videotaping ND's football practice when the scissors lift he was in overturned.

[RJax55]

Just sheer stupidity. A major failure within the football program and athletic department.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And it is reported that the gusts reached 51 mph in South Bend yesterday.  Chicos...  This guy was videotaping ND's football practice when the scissors lift he was in overturned.

Damn.  I was flying most of yesterday and the storms down here in Atlanta had us rocking and rolling.  Is the guy hurt?  Dead?

[Henry Sugar]

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/10/ind-osha-probes-death-of-notre-dame-student.html

Also

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20101028/News01/101029385/1137

At 3:22 p.m., just before the start of practice, he posted, "Gusts of wind up to 60 mph well today will be fun at work ... I guess I've lived long enough."

At 4:06 p.m., "Holy (expletive) holy (expletive) this is terrifying."

Forty-four minutes later, the portable tower, which stands about 50 feet above the field, tipped over

[Benny B]

""The call was made immediately, and I think the first responders, in the form of Notre Dame security police, were probably there within three minutes. Coach (Brian) Kelly and I [Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick] focused on getting the athletes back into the practice area, away from the scene of the accident.""

Doesn't quite foot with:

"The football team evidently continued to practice, leaving the field roughly 20 to 30 minutes after the accident."


If the latter report is true... Swarbrick is toast and Kelly's apparent lack of concern for anything other than his football practice isn't going to be looked too highly upon by a jury when they consider whose instruction it was to send the deceased up on a scissor lift in a known windstorm.  Somebody will be going to jail.

[Hards Alumni]

""The call was made immediately, and I think the first responders, in the form of Notre Dame security police, were probably there within three minutes. Coach (Brian) Kelly and I [Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick] focused on getting the athletes back into the practice area, away from the scene of the accident.""

Doesn't quite foot with:

"The football team evidently continued to practice, leaving the field roughly 20 to 30 minutes after the accident."


If the latter report is true... Swarbrick is toast and Kelly's apparent lack of concern for anything other than his football practice isn't going to be looked too highly upon by a jury when they consider whose instruction it was to send the deceased up on a scissor lift in a known windstorm.  Somebody will be going to jail.

No one is going to jail here, are you serious?

[RJax55]

""The call was made immediately, and I think the first responders, in the form of Notre Dame security police, were probably there within three minutes. Coach (Brian) Kelly and I [Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick] focused on getting the athletes back into the practice area, away from the scene of the accident.""

Doesn't quite foot with:

"The football team evidently continued to practice, leaving the field roughly 20 to 30 minutes after the accident."

Yeah, that really doesn't jive. Shocking to believe that you had the entire football staff at practice and the AD, and nobody thought having a guy 40 feet in the air during a wind storm was a bad idea.

I too think Swarbrick is in trouble.

[Benny B]

No one is going to jail here, are you serious?

Let me rephrase... if someone instructed the deceased up into the lift in dangerous weather conditions, then that person could be charged with manslaughter or a related criminal action.  In other words, if you are responsible for placing someone into a dangerous situation, you can be held responsible for the consequences.

Even if there was no intent for harm, it's still a crime to contribute to the death of another person.  The prosecutor simply needs to show that somebody directly contributed to Declan's death.  It's a tough burden to prove, but considering that practice was moved indoors the day before because of windy conditions, everybody in the nation was aware of windstorms in the Midwest that day, and the tweets from Declan himself indicated that conditions were known prior to practice as not conducive to somebody being in a lift as high as a goal post, it's not going to be difficult to prove that whoever gave that instruction knew - or should have known - that he was putting Declan at risk of death or severe injury.

But I think we should expect some sort of cover-up here, and of course, nobody at Notre Dame ever does anything wrong, so you're right... no one is going to jail.

[Hards Alumni]

Let me rephrase... if someone instructed the deceased up into the lift in dangerous weather conditions, then that person could be charged with manslaughter or a related criminal action.  In other words, if you are responsible for placing someone into a dangerous situation, you can be held responsible for the consequences.

Even if there was no intent for harm, it's still a crime to contribute to the death of another person.  The prosecutor simply needs to show that somebody directly contributed to Declan's death.  It's a tough burden to prove, but considering that practice was moved indoors the day before because of windy conditions, everybody in the nation was aware of windstorms in the Midwest that day, and the tweets from Declan himself indicated that conditions were known prior to practice as not conducive to somebody being in a lift as high as a goal post, it's not going to be difficult to prove that whoever gave that instruction knew - or should have known - that he was putting Declan at risk of death or severe injury.

But I think we should expect some sort of cover-up here, and of course, nobody at Notre Dame ever does anything wrong, so you're right... no one is going to jail.

No, clearly you are not a lawyer.  The deceased could have said, "Hell no, I am not going up there with this wind."

This is not the military, you do not have to follow orders.  Was it a bad decision?  Yes.  Will the guy probably live with the guilt of this kid's death for the rest of his life?  Yes.  Will there be anything other than a reprimand?  I seriously doubt it.

[Benny B]

No, clearly you are not a lawyer.  The deceased could have said, "Hell no, I am not going up there with this wind."

This is not the military, you do not have to follow orders.  Was it a bad decision?  Yes.  Will the guy probably live with the guilt of this kid's death for the rest of his life?  Yes.  Will there be anything other than a reprimand?  I seriously doubt it.

Ah yes... the old "I wouldn't have punched him had he dodged my fist" defense.

Nevertheless, a simple case search of OSHA Statute 666(e) would indicate that an employer (as well as an individual) can be held criminally responsible for the death of an employee.

Will that be the case here?  As I sat watching the news in Chicago tonight... I can't help but to think the number of investigators - including OSHA, SBPD, ISP - descending upon Notre Dame coupled with Swarbrick's "cover-my-own-ass" statements that conflict with other reports seem to indicate that something more than a mere reprimand is on the table.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Whoever is found responsible for sending this kid up there will be fired...even if it's Kelly himself. It's just absolutely inexcusable and completely avoidable. To call it a tragedy is understating it. It's an outrage and Swarbrick's (sp?) comments have been embarrassing.

[chren21]

I thought his greatest lie was stating that towels that were laying around all practice long had not blown around until this magical gust of wind came up and blew over the scissors lift.  I would say that is "funny" but really it is just plain sad..

[GGGG]

Whoever is found responsible for sending this kid up there will be fired...even if it's Kelly himself. It's just absolutely inexcusable and completely avoidable. To call it a tragedy is understating it. It's an outrage and Swarbrick's (sp?) comments have been embarrassing.

It's all going to depend on what the third party witnesses say.  If a couple people come forward and say that Kelly ordered the student up there, then he will be gone.  But my guess is that there will be a sacrificial lamb of some sort...probably whomever orders the students around at practice.

I think Swarbrick's commments have been bizarre but ultimately aren't going to cost him his job.  They like him there.

Oh, let me also add that UND will get their asses sued off...and deservedly so.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sad stuff all around.

[Sheriff]

No, clearly you are not a lawyer.  The deceased could have said, "Hell no, I am not going up there with this wind."

This is not the military, you do not have to follow orders.  Was it a bad decision?  Yes.  Will the guy probably live with the guilt of this kid's death for the rest of his life?  Yes.  Will there be anything other than a reprimand?  I seriously doubt it.

Under federal labor laws and OSHA statutes/regulations, the employer has the obligation to protect employees from injury.  We have no idea what the root cause was of this unfortunate incident.  If IOSHA investigates and enforces with the rigor of and to the extent of federal OSHA, there will be a civil penalty, particularly in the case of a fatality.   If the investigation results in a citation of willful violation, the penalty could be seven figures.

Remember the Miller Park construction crane accident?

[77ncaachamps]

Rangers, especially Kinsler, could have used some gusts of wind.

[reinko]

Rangers, especially Kinsler, could have used some gusts of wind.

Dude.  Quips and jackassery are more than welcome in 99% of threads on this board.  But on this one, IMO, really not necessary.

[g0lden3agle]

Dude.  Quips and jackassery are more than welcome in 99% of threads on this board.  But on this one, IMO, really not necessary.

It's possible he didn't read the part where this thread went from baseball in the first few posts to the reports about the ND student.

[reinko]

Good call, I had forgotten that it started out with that.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

With the weather in the upper midwest the last couple of days, can you imagine if the first game of the world series was being held in one of the outdoor stadiums?    Geeeeezzzzz.    Target Field, Cellular, Wrigley, Comerica........Oh, my dear sweet Lord.     THAT would have been entertainment.   

The only park that you mentioned that could have hosted games 1 and 2 would have been Wrigley....and we know that is a more of a joke than reality.....Target Field, in Minneapolis, today and tomorrow have perfect baseball weather forecasted......perfect sunny days and clear nights in the high 40's/low 50's.  The Twins just cannot get past the first round without getting swept.

[rugbydrummer]

It's all going to depend on what the third party witnesses say.  If a couple people come forward and say that Kelly ordered the student up there, then he will be gone.  But my guess is that there will be a sacrificial lamb of some sort...probably whomever orders the students around at practice.

I think Swarbrick's commments have been bizarre but ultimately aren't going to cost him his job.  They like him there.

Oh, let me also add that UND will get their asses sued off...and deservedly so.

That young man graduated from high school with my younger sister... terrible shame.