How Could The State U. Lose Recruits To Lowly X?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hoops said that no MU fan would trade Buzz for Crean. You are an MU fan. You were sold on Crean. You're not yet sold on Buzz. Until you and others who have expressed similar opinions state otherwise, it's simple logic to conclude you would prefer TC. I'm sure if the day comes when you prefer Buzz you'll let us know.

Your logic leaves a ton to be desired.  Read what you just wrote and try again.

[Lennys Tap]

I'll probably get roasted for this comment, but I'll say it.

I prefer the Final 4 and Dwyane Wade to anything Buzz has done (yet).

/ducks and prepares for the rage

I won't roast you for your comment. I disagree, but appreciate your honesty. At this point, you would trade Buzz for Crean, something Hoops tought no MU fan would do.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I won't roast you for your comment. I disagree, but appreciate your honesty. At this point, you would trade Buzz for Crean, something Hoops tought no MU fan would do.

Not exactly what I meant.

I'm saying the idea of trading 1 for the other (although impossible and absurd) shouldn't be an absolute slam dunk like some you are implying.

I really like what Buzz has done so far, and his ceiling in coaching might be very high. He also seems like a pretty good guy, which I like as well.

But, the other guy has some pretty good stuff on his resume, so let's not discount that and act like he's Jerry Wainwright or something.

[Lennys Tap]

Your logic leaves a ton to be desired.  Read what you just wrote and try again.

I think it's logical to prefer a guy you're "sold on" (Crean in your case) to a guy about whom you have misgivings or doubts (Buzz in your case). If you find this not to be the case please explain why rather than just making dirisive or dismissive comments.

[GGGG]

I won't roast you for your comment. I disagree, but appreciate your honesty. At this point, you would trade Buzz for Crean, something Hoops tought no MU fan would do.

No...that isn't true.  To date, Crean's MU accomplishments have been better than Buzz's.  If given a choice between the two's accomplishments at MU, I would choose Crean's.

However, I think the future of MU basketball looks like it *might* be better under Buzz than it was under Crean.

So I would not make that trade.

[Lennys Tap]

Not exactly what I meant.

I'm saying the idea of trading 1 for the other (although impossible and absurd) shouldn't be an absolute slam dunk like some you are implying.

I really like what Buzz has done so far, and his ceiling in coaching might be very high. He also seems like a pretty good guy, which I like as well.

But, the other guy has some pretty good stuff on his resume, so let's not discount that and act like he's Jerry Wainwright or something.

You're taking the "trading" concept too literally. Hoops point was that all MU fans are grateful that Buzz is leading the program and are glad it's him rather than TC. I think he's right about the vast majority of MU fans but not all of them. You are one of the exceptions and that's OK.

Oh, and as one who categoricallily and unabashedly prefers Buzz, I've never dismissed TC's resume or compared him to the likes of Jerry Wainwright. That's a strawman in this discussion.

[Lennys Tap]

No...that isn't true.  To date, Crean's MU accomplishments have been better than Buzz's.  If given a choice between the two's accomplishments at MU, I would choose Crean's.

However, I think the future of MU basketball looks like it *might* be better under Buzz than it was under Crean.

So I would not make that trade.

You say that the future of MU basketball *might* be better under Buzz than it was under Crean. Of course it *might* be and of course it *might* not be. Those are both givens and amount to totally neutral statements.  If, however, you believe that the future of MU basketball *will* be better under Buzz (presumably based on what you've seen of his coaching, recruiting, character,etc) you've got yourself a reason for not making the trade.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You're taking the "trading" concept too literally. Hoops point was that all MU fans are grateful that Buzz is leading the program and are glad it's him rather than TC. I think he's right about the vast majority of MU fans but not all of them. You are one of the exceptions and that's OK.

Oh, and as one who categoricallily and unabashedly prefers Buzz, I've never dismissed TC's resume or compared him to the likes of Jerry Wainwright. That's a strawman in this discussion.

Alright, well, then I think I'm misunderstanding this discussion and retract my statement(s).

Go Buzz.

[GGGG]

You say that the future of MU basketball *might* be better under Buzz than it was under Crean. Of course it *might* be and of course it *might* not be. Those are both givens and amount to totally neutral statements.  If, however, you believe that the future of MU basketball *will* be better under Buzz (presumably based on what you've seen of his coaching, recruiting, character,etc) you've got yourself a reason for not making the trade.

If I say I *believe* the future of MU basketball *will* be better, it is a neutral statement as well.  I have no way of knowing if Buzz's future accomplishments will be better than Crean's past accomplishments.  However, if I were a betting man, I would take Buzz's future over Crean's past.

[Golden Avalanche]

You are mad that Buzz landed a 4-star top 100 recruit and is likely a finalist for Hood and Shaw still?  That is a bad summer?

I didn't write I was mad nor wrote it was a bad summer. I'm not sure why you added those qualifiers.

My point was, to make fun of others' recruiting misses when Marquette has missed some of their top targets seems stupid.

[Lennys Tap]

If I say I *believe* the future of MU basketball *will* be better, it is a neutral statement as well.  I have no way of knowing if Buzz's future accomplishments will be better than Crean's past accomplishments.  However, if I were a betting man, I would take Buzz's future over Crean's past.

Sorry to get into it over semantics, but I disagree. Believing that something will happen is anything but neutral, while acknowledging that something might happen is.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think it's logical to prefer a guy you're "sold on" (Crean in your case) to a guy about whom you have misgivings or doubts (Buzz in your case). If you find this not to be the case please explain why rather than just making dirisive or dismissive comments.

I apologize for making comments you found dirisive or dismissive, but as I've said time and again to you, I don't appreciate it when you declare someone is FOR or AGAINST someone or how they are thinking about a specific comment, person, etc.  Often times it's the language you use. 

I wouldn't say at all that I'm a fan of Crean, in fact I would categorically state that as an untruth.  I recognize what he did for MU, the conditions of the program when he started and how he left it.  He got a lot done along the way.  Buzz, in my opinion, starts off in a MUCH BETTER situation than Crean did and has yet to accomplish anything more than Crean despite that head start (Big East vs C-USA, the Al vs the Gym, NIT team vs consistent NCAA team, etc, etc). 

That doesn't mean I don't like the future.  That doesn't mean I think Buzz is less than Crean.  That doesn't mean Buzz is flawed.  The problem is that you take the conversation into that realm.  It's not an either or situation.  It is especially illlogical to say because one is a known quantity (we have his past results) that we automatically prefer those results to what may happen in the future.  This is why your logic, in my opinion, is flawed.  It is quite logical, in my opinion, to appreciate the past but be hopeful for the future and even optimistic toward the future.  Now, it seems for some posters, that requires a blood oath, secret handshake and several acts of self pleasure that we're in love with current coach in every possible way, shape and form or be forever stained and branded with some scarlet letters of TC Fan Boy on your chest. 

I'll say what I have from the beginning.  He's doing well so far.  If he can continue to win, go to the NCAA, graduate nearly all his athletes, keep us out of NCAA doghouse, etc....I'll be a fan for life.  He has to do that for a number of years, however, and two years isn't enough for me.

[4everwarriors]

Lowly X?   4ever...you been inhaling the laughing gas again at the Dental school?   



OK, fine then, Xavier is middle of the road.

[Golden Avalanche]

Lowly X?   4ever...you been inhaling the laughing gas again at the Dental school?   



OK, fine then, Xavier is middle of the road.

I know you started this whole thing to make a funny but you do realize that Xavier's success, year in and year out, over the last decade blows Marquette out of the water, right?

Just want to be sure there's some semblance of brain behind the constant humorless sarcasm. 

[Lennys Tap]

I know you started this whole thing to make a funny but you do realize that Xavier's success, year in and year out, over the last decade blows Marquette out of the water, right?

Just want to be sure there's some semblance of brain behind the constant humorless sarcasm. 

4ever humorless? I sure wouldn't want you in the front row for my debut at Zanies.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think this is a well thought out entry on the team and staff.  I'm sure not all will agree with it, but it can stand on it's own merits.


http://kevinshanley.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/2010-2011-expectations/

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tough weekend for Tommy Boy when he loses Chandler and Smith-Rivera to Xavier. While his address may be different, some things never change.

Chandler decommits from Xavier...his second decommitment this year. 

http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/11/11/chandler-decommits-from-xavier/


Considering UCONN and Providence now

[ChicosBailBonds]

The 2012 class will also likely include Yogi Ferrell, and either Gary Harris or Jeremy Hollowell.  Only one of those nine kids is going to a high school outside the state of Indiana.


2011 – Cody Zeller, Austin Etherington

2012 – Hanner Perea, Peter Jurkin, Ron Patterson

2013 – Collin Hartman, Devin Davis

2014 – Tre Lyles, James Blackmon Jr.


Kind of kills this thread and 90% of the conversation in it

[Jay Bee]

The 2012 class will also likely include Yogi Ferrell, and either Gary Harris or Jeremy Hollowell.  Only one of those nine kids is going to a high school outside the state of Indiana.


2011 – Cody Zeller, Austin Etherington

2012 – Hanner Perea, Peter Jurkin, Ron Patterson

2013 – Collin Hartman, Devin Davis

2014 – Tre Lyles, James Blackmon Jr.


Kind of kills this thread and 90% of the conversation in it

Are there any other programs which have 7 or more "commitments" for 2012 and beyond at this point in time?  Any others with 4 commits for 2013 and beyond?  If not, what does that say about I4?  Just ahead of the curve?  Unique practice?  Does it make sense? 

I'm not sure of all the reasons behind it... but the answer is probably and simply, II!!!!, II!!!!

[Steve Buscemi]

I understand the point of the title is to take a shot at Crean, but "Lowly X"??? All Xavier has done the last several years in the NCAA tourney is:
2002 Second Round
2003 Second Round
2004 Elite Eight
2006 First Round
2007 Second Round
2008 Elite Eight
2009 Sweet Sixteen
2010 Sweet Sixteen

We, and most schools, would love to have a track record like that. Far from "Lowly".

I agree completely

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are there any other programs which have 7 or more "commitments" for 2012 and beyond at this point in time?  Any others with 4 commits for 2013 and beyond?  If not, what does that say about I4?  Just ahead of the curve?  Unique practice?  Does it make sense? 

I'm not sure of all the reasons behind it... but the answer is probably and simply, II!!!!, II!!!!

Time will tell if it makes sense.  No doubt some will decide not to go there or the school will decide for them (hopefully before accepting a national letter of intent)

One advantage of the strategy is the momentum it has created.  Purdue is cramping themselves right now as most of the in state talent is verballling without them.  Question is, will they honor their commitment and vice versa a few years out

[mu-rara]

Crean does have a decent 2012 class started with one in-state guard who looks good.  He also snagged some verbals from kids who are freshman in high school.

I think he is crazy to go after 2014 kids since offering a kid based on his body of work in junior high just means that kid hit puberty before his peers most likely.  It probably pleases the fanbase to see him get players with high rankings even if they have yet to play one second of even high school basketball. 

TJ Schlundt threw in 14 points (1st game, freshman) for Oconomowoc last night.  Let's get in on that!!

[Marquette84]

You're taking the "trading" concept too literally. Hoops point was that all MU fans are grateful that Buzz is leading the program and are glad it's him rather than TC. I think he's right about the vast majority of MU fans but not all of them. You are one of the exceptions and that's OK.

Oh, and as one who categoricallily and unabashedly prefers Buzz, I've never dismissed TC's resume or compared him to the likes of Jerry Wainwright. That's a strawman in this discussion.

I would prefer we still had Crean as head coach and Buzz as his primary recruiting assistant.

1.  We wouldn't have a turnover-by-committee point guard--we would have Tyshawn Taylor, with his 7.5 apg average and a 6:1 assist to turnover ratio.

2.  Instead of a inconsistent frosh getting major minutes inside, we would have Trevor Mbakwe averaging a near double-double.

3.  Instead of wondering where in the ball is going for any shot outside the arc, we would at least have Christopherson as a zone-busting threat keeping defenses honest.  He's 68.8% on three point attempts this year.  BTW, I don't buy the theory that he's a defensive sieve--MU's 3 point defense % is 39.2.  Iowa State's is 28.6.  

Furthermore, the last two games have exposed the fallacy of "Buzz is a much better X's and O's coach".  Both Crean and Buzz have had close games against Mike Krzyszewski and Mark Few--Crean beat Few in Alaska, and was 1-1 against Duke  Buzz was 0-2 combined this week.  And keep in mind that most people think that we've significantly UPGRADED our talent over what Crean had.

Now consider that we would still had Buzz as our #1 recruiting assistant. Presumably Buzz still would have found DJO and Buycks and Crowder and Blue.

And Jamil WIlson probably would have committed to MU directly out of school rather than transferring from Oregon and sitting out this year.

So imagine this week if we had a lineup of
Taylor
DJO
Wilson
Crowder
Mbakwe

Blue as 6th man
Christopherson off the bench to bust zones
Buycks as a backup to DJO and Taylor.
Otule getting backup minutes to Mbakwe.
Deep bench of Fulce, Williams, Hazel. and Smith.

With that lineup, I could live without Butler, Jones, and Cadougan

[madtownwarrior]

great analysis - other than the tan a-hole abandoned MU for II,II making all this conjecture non-sense...

I would prefer we still had Crean as head coach and Buzz as his primary recruiting assistant.

1.  We wouldn't have a turnover-by-committee point guard--we would have Tyshawn Taylor, with his 7.5 apg average and a 6:1 assist to turnover ratio.

2.  Instead of a inconsistent frosh getting major minutes inside, we would have Trevor Mbakwe averaging a near double-double.

3.  Instead of wondering where in the ball is going for any shot outside the arc, we would at least have Christopherson as a zone-busting threat keeping defenses honest.  He's 68.8% on three point attempts this year.  BTW, I don't buy the theory that he's a defensive sieve--MU's 3 point defense % is 39.2.  Iowa State's is 28.6.  

Furthermore, the last two games have exposed the fallacy of "Buzz is a much better X's and O's coach".  Both Crean and Buzz have had close games against Mike Krzyszewski and Mark Few--Crean beat Few in Alaska, and was 1-1 against Duke  Buzz was 0-2 combined this week.  And keep in mind that most people think that we've significantly UPGRADED our talent over what Crean had.

Now consider that we would still had Buzz as our #1 recruiting assistant. Presumably Buzz still would have found DJO and Buycks and Crowder and Blue.

And Jamil WIlson probably would have committed to MU directly out of school rather than transferring from Oregon and sitting out this year.

So imagine this week if we had a lineup of
Taylor
DJO
Wilson
Crowder
Mbakwe

Blue as 6th man
Christopherson off the bench to bust zones
Buycks as a backup to DJO and Taylor.
Otule getting backup minutes to Mbakwe.
Deep bench of Fulce, Williams, Hazel. and Smith.

With that lineup, I could live without Butler, Jones, and Cadougan

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101124/SPORTS04/311240075/IU+basketball+keeps+the+commitments+rolling++adds+Yogi+Ferrell