Quincy Miller has Marquette on his list

[Jay Bee]

Word is that Cothron will not be going to Italy.

In other news...Justin Coleman will be going to Marshall as a partial qualifier.

No such thing as a partial qualifier, right?  Just a qualifier or nonqualifier in D1... non-quals can get a partial waiver that might allow for an athletic scholarship and participation in practice... with Coleman, gotta think he may be just be going to school there but not even practicing... I bet the prospect of playing with Yous was the biggest factor here.

Cothron - who knows.  Doesn't sound like playing D1 ball this year is going to be an option, whatever he ultimately decides on doing.

[GOMU1104]

No such thing as a partial qualifier, right?  Just a qualifier or nonqualifier in D1... non-quals can get a partial waiver that might allow for an athletic scholarship and participation in practice... with Coleman, gotta think he may be just be going to school there but not even practicing... I bet the prospect of playing with Yous was the biggest factor here.

Cothron - who knows.  Doesn't sound like playing D1 ball this year is going to be an option, whatever he ultimately decides on doing.

Apparently hes a "prop" according to Scout.  He is not currently eligible and cannot do on court instruction. If hes figures things out, he could be eligible.

Cothron's coach said he would be playing in college. We will see.

[Jay Bee]

Apparently hes a "prop" according to Scout.  He is not currently eligible and cannot do on court instruction. If hes figures things out, he could be eligible.

Cothron's coach said he would be playing in college. We will see.

I think ED is confused on this one.  Looks like the appropriate description is that he is a non-qualifier that has not received a partial waiver.  If true, he could not practice and could not receive an academic scholarship. 

[4everwarriors]

I'll take Bello any day. Who cares if he might be a bit of a project, we wouldn't need much from him his freshman year anyways. Watching that dunk mixtape, he reminded me of Vince Carter. His superlong arms, the confidence he has to go up with one hand (he must have huge hands), and the way he can let loose a huge vertical leap from any position are just like VC.

On another note, however slim our chances for Miller are, has a recruit this highly ranked ever looked at Marquette? It seems like we've had plenty of guys in the 20s-30s nationally give us a look, but I can't remember a consensus top-5 guy looking twice at us. (I've only been closely following recruiting for a few years though.) And a big guy no less!

If Buzz can land this guy, Marquette basketball will have arrived on a level we could only hope for, and Buzz will have taken us there faster than any of us could have imagined.

Bernard Toone

[MarkCharles]

Quincy Miller still has to play his senior year and we don't know where he is final ranking will be.  You're assuming he will not fall in the final rankings next spring.  So, we do not know for sure he is "one and done"talent."  (BTW, go see the many post by BMA725 and others that have studied these rankings and concluded they are not that precise.  "Top 5" or "Top 20" is really not a meaningful difference.)

What we know now is he is ranked after his Junior year.  That ranking is similar to what Jamil Wilson, J.P. Tokoto and Vander Blue had after their Sophomore and Junior years.

Now regarding your comment about Rivers "giving us a look" which I bolded above.  I'm going to assume that you wrote this wrong and it is not what you meant.  Tell me you know where Rivers went to college.

Haha wow, egg on my face. I'm so used to calling him Doc I completely overlooked what his real first name is. As I was reading your list, for some reason Glenn Rice came to mind when I read Glenn Rivers. Probably makes more sense now...

I disagree that the difference between top 20 and top 5 is inconsequential. There are only about 5 or 6 one-and-dones per year, not 20-30, and those are the types who have not been at MU in the last couple decades. The one and dones are usually pretty easy to predict by the time they graduate high school.

I also highly doubt Blue or Wilson were consensus top-5 nationally after their jr years by the major services, but I will stand corrected if you can prove me wrong. And Tokoto has dropped from around #10 at his peak after his freshman year to the 20s-30s by most services. None of them are the same level as Quincy Miller.
I am of course assuming Miller doesn't fall his senior year, but he has been steadily rising (now #2 on scout I believe) Miller just doesn't seem likely to fall outside the top 10, but I guess we will see.

[bilsu]

I watched all the team USA games that Vander was on. I absolutely love Quincy Miller. At 6'8" he is capable of playing guard. In the pros he probably will play the three. He is not a center and I do not see him choosing MU, if he thinks he will play center.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I watched all the team USA games that Vander was on. I absolutely love Quincy Miller. At 6'8" he is capable of playing guard. In the pros he probably will play the three. He is not a center and I do not see him choosing MU, if he thinks he will play center.

He's going to Louisville

[wildbillsb]

Bernard Toone

Would that be Bernard "Looney" Toone?  (What a piece of work he was.)

[MarkCharles]

He's going to Louisville

Do you have a reason for this, other than that they have seemed like the leader for his services for the last month or so? Until there is solid evidence, things can always change in recruiting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just my hunch

[bma725]

He's going to Louisville

Two months ago you could have said the same thing about Baylor.  Prior to that it was Duke.  Before that it was NC State. 

With Miller, things change by the minute. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Besides the Blue connection, Miller's mom is from/lives in Chicago.  Let's see if he gets out of Louisville without committing and we may have a chance--albeit slight.  Pitino has a starting five recruit all-star line-up visiting this weekend.  Will have to do some Pitinoing to clear cap space.

[Tugg Speedman]

Haha wow, egg on my face. I'm so used to calling him Doc I completely overlooked what his real first name is. As I was reading your list, for some reason Glenn Rice came to mind when I read Glenn Rivers. Probably makes more sense now...

Fair enough ... I know Glenn (sorry Doc) from my MU days.  He was on my floor (6th floor McCormick) Freshman year (1981) and he has always been "Glenn" to me and not "Doc". 

[Litehouse]

No, thats not what I'm asking at all. I said consensus top 5, not players like Blue, Wilson, or Tokoto who were over-rated by a particular service in their freshman or sophomore years, but then fell back to the 20s-40s range by the time they were more fully analyzed. I'm talking the true studs that there is no disagreement about. No question one-and-done talents.

Does Brian Butch count?  He was ranked as high as 4, and I think his RSCI ended up around 7.  It may have ultimately come down to UW and UNC for him, but he certainly gave us a look.  He obviously wasn't a one-and-done talent, and you can argue he was overrated, but his numbers were certainly in the ballpark.

[MarkCharles]

Does Brian Butch count?  He was ranked as high as 4, and I think his RSCI ended up around 7.  It may have ultimately come down to UW and UNC for him, but he certainly gave us a look.  He obviously wasn't a one-and-done talent, and you can argue he was overrated, but his numbers were certainly in the ballpark.

Yea, Butch is probably the closest example since the Al days. Its insane how highly rated he was when you consider he redshirted, stayed 4 years, and was still never even close to the best player on that team. That being said, I would have loved to have him at MU and I really respected him.

I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers. I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career.

[NersEllenson]

I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers. I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career.

It was my recollection that Bo tried to make Butch into more of a post player..when he would have been best served to fill a role like Steve Novak did at MU.  Butch was known to be a great shooter..but not a physical presence..and Bo tried to bulk him up and make him one..if I recall correctly?  

[GGGG]

It was my recollection that Bo tried to make Butch into more of a post player..when he would have been best served to fill a role like Steve Novak did at MU.  Butch was known to be a great shooter..but not a physical presence..and Bo tried to bulk him up and make him one..as I recall correctly? 

That's exactly right.  And Butch has nowhere near the bulk to bang around the inside at the next level.  He probably would have been better served playing the Novak-type role if the primary concern was his NBA future.

[MarkCharles]

Butch was not suited for the Novak role at all. They are completely different players, except for being tall white guys. Novak ran around the perimeter looking for open shots. Butch is not suited to that at all. He has a slow release, absolutely no quickness, and even less ability than Novak to create off the dribble. Plus, he's only a good shooter in the context of being a center, not a great shooter by any measure like Novak. To play the Butch role in the NBA, he would need to be a small forward, which no one will argue he could play.  He would not be suited to living only on the perimeter, as Novak is.

And Bo may have made some attempts to make Butch a post player, but the swing offense had him spending way too much time on the perimeter while guards and small forwards posted up. This hurt Butch's development as a rebounder and his post move repertoire, which he had very little of but had the requisite skills to develop.

[GGGG]

Butch was not suited for the Novak role at all. They are completely different players, except for being tall white guys. Novak ran around the perimeter looking for open shots. Butch is not suited to that at all. He has a slow release, absolutely no quickness, and even less ability than Novak to create off the dribble. Plus, he's only a good shooter in the context of being a center, not a great shooter by any measure like Novak. To play the Butch role in the NBA, he would need to be a small forward, which no one will argue he could play.  He would not be suited to living only on the perimeter, as Novak is.

Butch's role in high school was almost exactly like Novak's.  Furthermore, instead of trying to bulk him up to bang on the inside, which had the side effect of slowing him down, he could have definately developed a quickness and a better shot with the right coaching.

[MarkCharles]

Butch's role in high school was almost exactly like Novak's.  Furthermore, instead of trying to bulk him up to bang on the inside, which had the side effect of slowing him down, he could have definately developed a quickness and a better shot with the right coaching.

Whatever his role in high school was, we are debating his development/role at UW relative to looking forward to the NBA, not looking back.  And I don't really think his role at a D4 northern Wisconsin high school is indicative of his NBA prospects.

Novak bulked up considerably from hs to the NBA, but maintained his quickness. Butch didn't, if he ever had much. I saw both Novak play live multiple times in hs and Butch multiple times on TV, and Butch had a much thicker frame than Novak when they were both hs seniors. Saying their roles were almost exactly the same is misleading-Butch was a center who hit some jumpers, while Novak was a 2 in a 5's body. Not really the same. And to say a 7-footer could just develop quickness and a better shot is very optimistic. Why doesn't that happen more often then? I'm sure every college or NBA team would love a quick 7footer who can nail 3s. Its much more realistic that he develop a couple go-to post moves and better rebounding skills.

[GGGG]

Whatever his role in high school was, we are debating his development/role at UW relative to looking forward to the NBA, not looking back.  And I don't really think his role at a D4 northern Wisconsin high school is indicative of his NBA prospects.

Novak bulked up considerably from hs to the NBA, but maintained his quickness. Butch didn't, if he ever had much. I saw both Novak play live multiple times in hs and Butch multiple times on TV, and Butch had a much thicker frame than Novak when they were both hs seniors. Saying their roles were almost exactly the same is misleading-Butch was a center who hit some jumpers, while Novak was a 2 in a 5's body. Not really the same. And to say a 7-footer could just develop quickness and a better shot is very optimistic. Why doesn't that happen more often then? I'm sure every college or NBA team would love a quick 7footer who can nail 3s. Its much more realistic that he develop a couple go-to post moves and better rebounding skills.

"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?"  He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)

Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body.  To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness.  Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level. 

[LON]

"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?"  He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)

Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body.  To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness.  Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level. 

He went to West

[MarkCharles]

"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?"  He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)

Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body.  To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness.  Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level. 

Oops, my bad, got his hs confused with Stiemsma's.

Still, you say his frame can't support being an NBA big. I guess we agree to disagree. Hes 7 ft, 245. Bogut is 7 ft, 260, and plenty big for down low in the NBA. Im not sure why he can't put on 10-15 more lbs and be essentially the same size as Bogut (by the way, Bogut was only 205 lbs as a hs senior-why couldn't Butch steadily develop like him?). My point is that saying he is like  Novak is misleading, because he didn't have the speed, release, quickness that Novak had. If he had gone to MU and been employed in exactly the same way Novak was, he still wouldn't have made the NBA as a shooting sf. His size and skills mean his best position longterm in the NBA is center, where any lost quickness due to added bulk would be largely inconsequential. He simply never had enough of the skills it takes to play NBA sf. Men his size with his skill/coordination are hard to come by.  
 As you say, he played the role Bo asked very well. Thats not what  we're debating. We're debating whether the role Bo put him in was the best for his NBA prospects. At least thats what I am debating. I would never disagree that he did exactly what Bo wanted him to do.

Heres my quote that started this debate ...
"I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers. I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career."

[seakm4]

Hes 7 ft, 245. Bogut is 7 ft, 260, and plenty big for down low in the NBA. Im not sure why he can't put on 10-15 more lbs and be essentially the same size as Bogut

No because it would all go to his man titties and make him hunch over more.

[NersEllenson]

"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?"  He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)

Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body.  To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness.  Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level. 

I agree with your assessment Sultan...from what I recall UW did their damndest to bulk Butch up and turn him into a bona-fide post player.   As I recall he won the 3 point contest at the MCDonalds All-American game coming out of High School..so from that..do know that he had a very strong 3-ball coming out of High School.  Never saw he and Novak play live..but to me..their foot speed/quickness coming out of high school couldn't have been very different..Novak was SLOW upon arriving at MU..