Nick Faust....

[NersEllenson]

Saying that Buzz and Monarch had previous ties is understating their relationship.  Monarch had been one of Buzz's assistants at UNO.

Of course it is understating the relationship - as it makes Buzz look shady/reduce the merit of the Jimmy Butler signing -  which is 84's agenda   Thankfully Buzz didn't have to hire Buycks coach, DJO's coach, or Crowder's coach to land those players.

[MuMark]

One of the reasons MU might not have been on JB's radar is because they didn't have an opening until Crean left.

When Crean went to IU Taylor, Nick Williams, and Christopherson bolted which opened up a spot for Jimmy.

Based on the relationship Buzz and SM had I think its clear that he would have been hired even if Jimmy Butler had decided to go elseware.

[Marquette84]

Of course it is understating the relationship - as it makes Buzz look shady/reduce the merit of the Jimmy Butler signing -  which is 84's agenda   Thankfully Buzz didn't have to hire Buycks coach, DJO's coach, or Crowder's coach to land those players.

Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Sensitive.  I thought everyone here already KNEW that Monarch worked for Buzz at UNO.  Apparently it was news to you. 

And its funny how YOU think the package deal was shady, and how dare I remind people of it.

But let's spell out all the relationships.  Buzz has ties to Monarch had hired Monarch at UNO and worked with him for a year, but had no prior ties to  Butler, even though he had recruited Butler's teammate to three different schools. 

So Butler isn't looking at MU, but when he hire Monarch, all of a sudden he's ready to commit without even visiting the campus.

When Butler is asked about why he picked MU, he made the comment "I know that coach Monarch's going to take care of me when I get up there."
http://www.apacheathletics.com/article/458.php

And we know that the Monarch/Butler package deal was identified on the IOWA STATE board in April 2008.  Where was your outrage back then? 
http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/mens-basketball/26597-jimmy-butler.html#post439812

You accuse me of being naive, but come on . . . this was a package deal.

[cheebs09]

Monarch came in and talked to one of my coaching classes. He was asked about how people get assistant jobs and things like that and he said like recruiting it was all about relationships. That you need someone who knows your personality and can work well with you. I know UNO was not the first time Buzz and Monarch knew each other. It sounded like they had known each other for quite awhile, I forget exactly how they knew each other, possibly both coaching in the juco ranks, but I do remember him saying how they were pretty good friends and he wasn't all that surprised to get a call when Buzz became a head coach (I actually think he said he got a call as soon as Buzz found out about Crean just giving him a heads up that he could get the job and would have a job for him). I don't think Butler was going wherever Monarch went and when Buzz hired hired Monarch he got Jimmy as well. I think it was more that we needed a player and Monarch had coached a very good player in Jimmy Butler (the last two sentences are my opinion, not what Monarch said)

P.S. Monarch was a very good speaker and had a lot of interesting things to say. Like Buzz, he has quite the story about how he made it to where he is in coaching. He seemed like a real quality guy and we are lucky to have him.

[Lennys Tap]

Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Sensitive.  I thought everyone here already KNEW that Monarch worked for Buzz at UNO.  Apparently it was news to you. 

And its funny how YOU think the package deal was shady, and how dare I remind people of it.

But let's spell out all the relationships.  Buzz has ties to Monarch had hired Monarch at UNO and worked with him for a year, but had no prior ties to  Butler, even though he had recruited Butler's teammate to three different schools. 

So Butler isn't looking at MU, but when he hire Monarch, all of a sudden he's ready to commit without even visiting the campus.

When Butler is asked about why he picked MU, he made the comment "I know that coach Monarch's going to take care of me when I get up there."
http://www.apacheathletics.com/article/458.php

And we know that the Monarch/Butler package deal was identified on the IOWA STATE board in April 2008.  Where was your outrage back then? 


You state EMPHATICALLY that Ners thought Monarch and Butler coming to MU was a "shady deal". Where does he ever say that? Why do you insist on making stuff like this up? He says YOUR MISSTATEMENT makes it SEEM like a shady deal. The way you regularly twist people's words to advance your arguments is too much.

[Marquette84]

You state EMPHATICALLY that Ners thought Monarch and Butler coming to MU was a "shady deal". Where does he ever say that? Why do you insist on making stuff like this up? He says YOUR MISSTATEMENT makes it SEEM like a shady deal. The way you regularly twist people's words to advance your arguments is too much.

First, i didn't misstate anything.  I said that Monarch had ties to Buzz--which was a true statement.  As if people here didn't know the exact nature of the ties already.   

Ners exact quote was "Of course it is understating the relationship - as it makes Buzz look shady/reduce the merit of the Jimmy Butler signing"

The only way my statement could MAKE Buzz look shady is if you thought Buzz's actions were shady to begin with. 

[Lennys Tap]

First, i didn't misstate anything.  I said that Monarch had ties to Buzz--which was a true statement.  As if people here didn't know the exact nature of the ties already.   

Ners exact quote was "Of course it is understating the relationship - as it makes Buzz look shady/reduce the merit of the Jimmy Butler signing"

The only way my statement could MAKE Buzz look shady is if you thought Buzz's actions were shady to begin with. 

One more time. Ners says that you are understating the relationship between Buzz and Monarch. He says that this understatement gives the FALSE impression that something shady has occurred. You twist this into Ners acknowledging that something shady has occurred. Hence your misstatement.

[ATL MU Warrior]

One more time. Ners says that you are understating the relationship between Buzz and Monarch. He says that this understatement gives the FALSE impression that something shady has occurred. You twist this into Ners acknowledging that something shady has occurred. Hence your misstatement.

wheels turning...I smell the smoke

[Marquette84]

One more time. Ners says that you are understating the relationship between Buzz and Monarch. He says that this understatement gives the FALSE impression that something shady has occurred. You twist this into Ners acknowledging that something shady has occurred. Hence your misstatement.

Ners is wrong.  I didn't understate anything.  And the only way he could say that I made Buzz look shady is if he thinks what Buzz actually did was shady, because the only thing I did is state what Buzz did.

To prove it I'll rewrite the statement with the detail that Ners seems to think makes some difference:

In fairness to houwarrior, we hired Scott Monarch and his player Jimmy Butler committed shortly thereafter.  Not saying that this was an obvious quid pro quo, as Buzz and Monarch had previous ties (Monarch was an assistant under Buzz at UNO).  However, I don't believe we were on Butler's radar screen (even though his teammate Fulce had committed to us) until Monarch's name surfaced as a potential assistant.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8716.msg71899

There.  Now I'm not "understating" anything.   Doesn't change the meaning a bit.

The real point of the post (absent Ners agenda to accuse anything I say as being "anti-Buzz") is that we are in no position to throw stones at Memphis.  

The same rule that will stop Memphis (or Maryland or Kentucky or Kansas or ANY other school) from hiring a coach and recruiting one of his players in the same year would have ALSO prevented Buzz from hiring Monarch and recruiting Butler.   Therefore, we did the same thing.

So what Ners wants is that because Buzz knew Monarch better, well, that's okay then.  But the NCAA doesn't see it that way.  Neither does Buzz.  Read Buzz's comments in the ESPN article.  He's not saying there should be an exception for hiring previous assistants.  He said it hurts all coaches at lower levels who work hard to gain visibility to make their players off limits if they're hired.

[NersEllenson]

Ners is wrong.  I didn't understate anything.  And the only way he could say that I made Buzz look shady is if he thinks what Buzz actually did was shady, because the only thing I did is state what Buzz did.

Guess who's wrong again??? 84!!  Surprise.  It wasn't me who initially said you "understated" the relationship between Buzz and Monarch.  It was Skatastrophy.  And he is right.  He realized what you did..and you did understate the relationship - to make it seem like the ONLY reason we hired Monarch was due to his connection to Jimmy Butler...I'm sure in Memphis's case, their history of hiring an AAU coach didn't pre-date the player relationship that came as part of the package deal.  Buzz and Monarch go way back, and as a result - this wasn't the case of hiring a JUCO coach as a means to secure a player.

And no 84 - I'm not paranoid about anyone being critical of Buzz..but through your most recent offering on this topic..you continue to make it crystal clear of your latent agenda..its becoming obvious now.  To even float for a minute that Buzz hired Monarch as a means to get Jimmy Butler is ridiculous, and illustrates quite clearly your agenda.

Last question - how did Buzz manage to land Buycks, DJO and Crowder without hiring their JUCO coaches to MU??

PS Lennys - Thanks for the support.

[NersEllenson]

So Butler isn't looking at MU, but when he hire Monarch, all of a sudden he's ready to commit without even visiting the campus.

And guess what 84 - DJO wasn't even on MU's radar as far as everyone knew..and he committed to MU...WITHOUT EVEN VISITING THE CAMPUS!  Wow...where's the package deal on DJO's recruitment?  Did we hire someone to the staff from Hutchison CC that none of us are aware of?  Why would Buzz not offer DJO's coach a job..but offer's Butler's coach?

Go find a new hobby..JOANIE.  Support your husband at IU, instead of being jealous over your husband's replacement who is kicking your hubby's ass in the recruiting and coaching game - at a school one rung below, It's Indiana, It's Indiana.  Tommy made his bed in IU, and you should still sleep in it - even though he's looking less and less like the man you thought he was everyday.

[kmwtrucks]

I would say 1/2 the Juco's commit without visiting.  Crowder also did not visit. No one knows how hard Buzz was recruiting Butler or not.  Go back and look at school lists for Bulter, Their were none so who is to say MU was not looking at him and then offered as soon as they had a spot.

[Marquette84]

He realized what you did..and you did understate the relationship - to make it seem like the ONLY reason we hired Monarch was due to his connection to Jimmy Butler...I'm sure in Memphis's case, their history of hiring an AAU coach didn't pre-date the player relationship that came as part of the package deal.  Buzz and Monarch go way back, and as a result - this wasn't the case of hiring a JUCO coach as a means to secure a player.

Not only did I NOT "make it seem like the ONLY reason we hired Monarch was his connection to Butler, but I SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT WASN"T THE CASE BECAUSE THERE WAS A PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MONARCH AND BUZZ!!!  

Obviously you don't actually READ my posts--and what I actually write doesn't have any meaning to you.  You just twist whatever I say to fit your paranoid agenda.


"Not saying that this was an obvious quid pro quo, as Buzz and Monarch had previous ties (Monarch was an assistant under Buzz at UNO)."

This is par for the course with you--but taken to a new level.  I say one thing, and you try and claim I said the exact opposite in order to create an attack.

I'm sure your next paranoid rant will follow soon.  

[copious1218]

So . . . nothing new on Faust then?

[NersEllenson]

Well 84 - Just let me know when you want to stop getting owned on this topic.  When you write the below:

Obviously you don't actually READ my posts--and what I actually write doesn't have any meaning to you.  You just twist whatever I say to fit your paranoid agenda.
"Not saying that this was an obvious quid pro quo, as Buzz and Monarch had previous ties (Monarch was an assistant under Buzz at UNO)."

But then go on to say this (you completely contradict yourself - per usual.)  The reality is that Scott Monarch would still be an assistant coach at MU even if Jimmy Butler didn't sign with MU.  Buzz has proven he can land top JUCO talent without giving the player's coaches jobs.  Furthermore - why don't you rebut that we weren't on DJO's list/radar..yet he committed without ever visiting campus??  And note - I never called the Butler signing and Monarch hiring a "package deal" as you continue to belabor below.  You are the one calling it a package deal all along..yet initially trying to say there was no quid pro quo.  You make yourself look ridiculous 84..keep digging your grave if you want.  It's getting old owning you.

 

And its funny how YOU think the package deal was shady, and how dare I remind people of it.

But let's spell out all the relationships.  Buzz has ties to Monarch had hired Monarch at UNO and worked with him for a year, but had no prior ties to  Butler, even though he had recruited Butler's teammate to three different schools. 

So Butler isn't looking at MU, but when he hire Monarch, all of a sudden he's ready to commit without even visiting the campus.

When Butler is asked about why he picked MU, he made the comment "I know that coach Monarch's going to take care of me when I get up there."
http://www.apacheathletics.com/article/458.php

And we know that the Monarch/Butler package deal was identified on the IOWA STATE board in April 2008.  Where was your outrage back then? 
http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/mens-basketball/26597-jimmy-butler.html#post439812

You accuse me of being naive, but come on . . . this was a package deal.

[MerrittsMustache]

So . . . nothing new on Faust then?

Ha! I was just going to write this same thing.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

Go find a new hobby..JOANIE.  Support your husband at IU, instead of being jealous over your husband's replacement who is kicking your hubby's ass in the recruiting and coaching game - at a school one rung below, It's Indiana, It's Indiana.  Tommy made his bed in IU, and you should still sleep in it - even though he's looking less and less like the man you thought he was everyday.

The Crean's can take solace in the fact that they are also Harbaughs...

[dmjt4160]

So . . . nothing new on Faust then?

Pretty much everyone of our insiders on our (MD) boards think we have him wrapped up and that he might commit very soon. Other than that there isn't any news since the last article where Faust talked about taking visits and committing in the fall.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well 84 - Just let me know when you want to stop getting owned on this topic.  When you write the below:

Obviously you don't actually READ my posts--and what I actually write doesn't have any meaning to you.  You just twist whatever I say to fit your paranoid agenda.
"Not saying that this was an obvious quid pro quo, as Buzz and Monarch had previous ties (Monarch was an assistant under Buzz at UNO)."

But then go on to say this (you completely contradict yourself - per usual.)  The reality is that Scott Monarch would still be an assistant coach at MU even if Jimmy Butler didn't sign with MU.  Buzz has proven he can land top JUCO talent without giving the player's coaches jobs.  Furthermore - why don't you rebut that we weren't on DJO's list/radar..yet he committed without ever visiting campus??  And note - I never called the Butler signing and Monarch hiring a "package deal" as you continue to belabor below.  You are the one calling it a package deal all along..yet initially trying to say there was no quid pro quo.  You make yourself look ridiculous 84..keep digging your grave if you want.  It's getting old owning you.

Honestly guys, it seems like you are looking for reasons to fight. You've posted over the top of one another in a couple of different threads, and it's the same song and dance. Somehow it degenerates into Buzz vs Crean.

Could you take this to PM?

[Marquette84]

But then go on to say this (you completely contradict yourself - per usual.) 

No contradiction.  I've been completely consistent:  I said this was NOT an obvious quid pro quo, in my first post, and have been consistent in every post since.  You keep implying I said the opposite, and every time you do so you're wrong.

I never said or implied anything was wrong with what we did. In fact, the post was intended to get us to stop accusing other schools of malfeasance for doing so.

The reality is that Scott Monarch would still be an assistant coach at MU even if Jimmy Butler didn't sign with MU. 

I completely agree with this--never said anything to the contrary.  I also believe based on the quotes made by Butler at the time, if we had not hired Scott Monarch, Jimmy Butler would not have signed with MU. 

Buzz has proven he can land top JUCO talent without giving the player's coaches jobs. 

Sure.  I agree 100%. 

Furthermore - why don't you rebut that we weren't on DJO's list/radar..yet he committed without ever visiting campus??

I didn't want your head to explode:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/83693017.html
"Johnson-Odom actually was recruited by former MU coach Tom Crean when he was in high school. . ."

  And note - I never called the Butler signing and Monarch hiring a "package deal" as you continue to belabor below.  You are the one calling it a package deal all along..yet initially trying to say there was no quid pro quo.  You make yourself look ridiculous 84..keep digging your grave if you want.  It's getting old owning you.

I'm not belaboring anything--I'm trying to point out simple statements of fact.

Fact: Butler & Monarch had a player/coach relationship in Juco. 
Fact: We hired Monarch and signed Butler in the same year, making them a package deal.
Fact: This type of package deal would be barred under the new NCAA rules.

I'll add my opinion--we landed Butler primarily because we hired Monarch--supported by the quotes in the press made at the time. 

Furthermore, we should not accuse other programs of shady dealings when THEY hire coaches and recruit players from the same JUCO, HS or AAU team.

Honestly guys, it seems like you are looking for reasons to fight. You've posted over the top of one another in a couple of different threads, and it's the same song and dance. Somehow it degenerates into Buzz vs Crean.

Fair enough.  I felt the need to defend myself from Ners personal attacks.

[NersEllenson]

84 - So clarify for me - you state the Butler and Monarach arrival wasn't an OBVIOUS quid pro quo, but then go on to say it is an obvious "package deal," isn't that contradictory?  You write that we shouldn't scold schools who have hired AAU coaches, etc..as a means to land a player - because we have done the same thing??  Yet you state that you agree that Scott Monarch would be a coach at MU even if Jimmy Butler didn't sign?

I'm not sure where the contradictions end..but you keep spinning a vicious contradictory circle to try to fit your agenda..of making Buzz look shady.

[MerrittsMustache]

Fact: Butler & Monarch had a player/coach relationship in Juco. 
Fact: We hired Monarch and signed Butler in the same year, making them a package deal.
Fact: This type of package deal would be barred under the new NCAA rules.

#1 and #3 are both right in principle. #2 is a little fuzzy.

The new rule was put in place to keep programs from hiring empty suit assistant coaches simply so they could sign that coach's star recruit. In a way, they want to prevent players from bringing their own coaches as opposed to coaches bringing their own players. Butler came to MU because of Monarch, but Monarch was coming to MU regardless. The NCAA wants to get rid of situations where an insurance salesman/AAU basketball coach is hired by a university and all of a sudden that coach's McDonald's All-American decides to sign with that school.

[MarkCharles]

Pretty much everyone of our insiders on our (MD) boards think we have him wrapped up and that he might commit very soon. Other than that there isn't any news since the last article where Faust talked about taking visits and committing in the fall.

What are the reasons your insiders are saying this? Is it the new recruiter MD just hired?  Are these people reliable?

[dmjt4160]

What are the reasons your insiders are saying this? Is it the new recruiter MD just hired?  Are these people reliable?

Well Bino has certainly been a huge factor in Fausts recruitment. These guys are very reliable for the most part. But its bball recruiting so well see, obviously he hasn't decided quite yet.

[Aughnanure]

What are the reasons your insiders are saying this? Is it the new recruiter MD just hired?  Are these people reliable?

Yes, can we please get back to the actual topic.