King City Classic roundup...Buzz mention....Dawson lists Marquette among 4

[NersEllenson]

Im not sure why you are trying to compare Syracuse to say, UNC or UK. They arent. But they are the only school to place lottery picks in the last 2 drafts.

Lottery picks since 2000
Etan Thomas - 2000
Carmelo Anthony - 2003
Jonny Flynn - 2009
Wes Johnson - 2010

Likely lotto in future - Fab Melo

And yes, I am a pseudo Syracuse fan. If you spent 2 years living in Ithaca attending Cornell, you would be too. While it was nice that the city of Ithaca built fences along the bridges to deter students from killing themselves (highest suicide rate outside of the universities in Alaska), there still isnt anything to do other than study. Taking trips to Cuse to watch basketball was a nice (and necessary) escape.

Not sure where I ever compared Cuse to UNC or Kentucky?  But..year in, year out..CUSE gets TOp 50 talent and ultimately not much of it develops.  I've never been to Syracuse, but have heard it is pretty GRIM up there.

[goodgreatgrand]

Not sure where I ever compared Cuse to UNC or Kentucky?  But..year in, year out..CUSE gets TOp 50 talent and ultimately not much of it develops.  I've never been to Syracuse, but have heard it is pretty GRIM up there.

Top 50 signees:

2005 - Eric Devendorf (Dominic James was top 50 also)
2006 - Paul Harris (bust), Mike Jones (transfered)
2007 - Donte Greene - one and done first round pick; Jonny Flynn - two and done lottery pick
2008 - no top 50 recruits
2009 - no top 50 recruits

So, since 2005, they have sent two of their four top 50 recruits to the first round of the NBA by their sophomore years. I'd say thats pretty good, no?

Top 50 talent "year in, year out?" You sure about that?

[bilsu]

There are 60 players drafted every year. I have not counted, but probably 15 of them are foreign players. Being a top 50 high school player is no guarantee that you will play pro ball. Some of them are not big enough or athletic enough to realistically play in the NBA. I suspect if you actually scouted each top 50 player in the 2011 recruiting class you would come up with 15 locks for the pros, 15 because of size and athletic ability have no real chance. The remaining 20 are iffy.

[NickelDimer]

[goodgreatgrand]

I spent a week Ithaca this past summer at a friend's wedding (he and his wife are both Cornell alums).  We started every morning at Collegetown Bagels and spent the majority of the day hiking and exploring.  As an outdoor person I would have my summers spoken for in Ithaca... but I could see there being nothing to do besides drink like a Wisconsinite during the winter. 

Summers are one thing; the school year is another. Ithaca, from October - March, is awful. But the Finger Lakes are great.

[goodgreatgrand]

There are 60 players drafted every year. I have not counted, but probably 15 of them are foreign players. Being a top 50 high school player is no guarantee that you will play pro ball. Some of them are not big enough or athletic enough to realistically play in the NBA. I suspect if you actually scouted each top 50 player in the 2011 recruiting class you would come up with 15 locks for the pros, 15 because of size and athletic ability have no real chance. The remaining 20 are iffy.

Exactly. In the 2005 recruiting class, I counted 16 players that were drafted. While Ners doesnt make any logical points, I can only *infer* from his previous posts that he thinks Top 50 talent should go to the NBA. He apparently thinks that top 50 players jumping to the NBA is some sort of an indication as to how good a program is at developing talent. Did Greg Oden really *develop* his game during his one year at OSU? Maybe....but I wouldnt credit Matta for turning him into a lottery pick. Conversely, would I blame MU for not turning James into an NBA player despite being a top 50 player? No. If he stayed for 8 years, it wouldnt have made him any taller. 

[NersEllenson]

Exactly. In the 2005 recruiting class, I counted 16 players that were drafted. While Ners doesnt make any logical points, I can only *infer* from his previous posts that he thinks Top 50 talent should go to the NBA. He apparently thinks that top 50 players jumping to the NBA is some sort of an indication as to how good a program is at developing talent. Did Greg Oden really *develop* his game during his one year at OSU? Maybe....but I wouldnt credit Matta for turning him into a lottery pick. Conversely, would I blame MU for not turning James into an NBA player despite being a top 50 player? No. If he stayed for 8 years, it wouldnt have made him any taller. 

Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players.  Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003.  Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams.  Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20  Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players.  Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003.  Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams.  Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20  Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..

McNeal was RSCI top 100 also. 

[goodgreatgrand]

Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players.  Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003.  Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams.  Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20  Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..

After you incorrectly claimed that Syracuse gets top 50 talent "year-in, year out," you now are expanding the argument to top 100...? Alrighty then.

Additionally, you are using a sample size of 5 and comparing it to 20? Right. Based on your numbers, MU would prob have a greater *percentage* of NBA products than any other school in the country.

And I still dont understand why the NBA is your measurement for development. There have been countless great college players that didnt sniff the NBA for one reason or another. I didnt know that recruiters look at high school players and say to themselves, "Hmmm, this kid looks like he can play high D1 ball, but I question whether his physical attributes will will hinder his opportunity to play in the NBA...I'm not sure I want this kid anymore."

[NersEllenson]

After you incorrectly claimed that Syracuse gets top 50 talent "year-in, year out," you now are expanding the argument to top 100...? Alrighty then.

Additionally, you are using a sample size of 5 and comparing it to 20? Right. Based on your numbers, MU would prob have a greater *percentage* of NBA products than any other school in the country.

And I still dont understand why the NBA is your measurement for development. There have been countless great college players that didnt sniff the NBA for one reason or another. I didnt know that recruiters look at high school players and say to themselves, "Hmmm, this kid looks like he can play high D1 ball, but I question whether his physical attributes will will hinder his opportunity to play in the NBA...I'm not sure I want this kid anymore."

Well genius..since you tried to argue that it was so unlilkely or hard for Top 50 kids to make the NBA..it makes your argument even worse if we (or I) did expand it to Top 100.  Either way, since you are a Marquette fan first and foremost..and just a latent Syracuse fan - I'm sure you are quite proud of Marquettes track record for turning out NBA talent..given what it has had to work with, right?  Furthermore, you recognize MU does a better job than Syracuse in player development, right?

[goodgreatgrand]

Furthermore, you recognize MU does a better job than Syracuse in player development, right?

I dont know. You certainly didnt convince me one way or the other.

[NersEllenson]

I dont know. You certainly didnt convince me one way or the other.

Think its time for you to come out of the closet - its okay if Syracuse is your Number 1 team.  You are still welcome to post here - but just be real about it...

[Marquette84]

I don't think there's enough data to establish much of a difference.

Syracuse has had 20 RSCI top 100 players from 2000 to 2009 (Edelin, Forth, Anthony, McNamara, Nichols, Watkins, Roberts, J Wright, D. Wright, Devendorf, Maybin, Mike Jones, Harris, Green, Flynn, Jardine, Jackson, Riley, Mookie Jones & Joseph), and five have made the NBA so far (Anthony, Nichols, Watkins, Green & Flynn).   

MU has had 10 top 100 over the same interval (Merritt, Diener, Novak, James, McNeal, Matthews, Mbakwe, Cadougan, Willams & Maymon), three have made it to the NBA so far (Diener, Novak, & Matthews). 

MU has had 1 player not in the RSCI top 100 make the NBA over the last 10 years (Wade)
Syracuse has had 2 (Warrick & Johnson)

MU's McNeal and SU's Rautins & McNamara have made summer camps but not yet appeared in a league game.

[GGGG]

Think its time for you to come out of the closet - its okay if Syracuse is your Number 1 team.  You are still welcome to post here - but just be real about it...

You're too much.

"If you don't agree with my wildly optimistic statements about Marquette, you must not be a true fan!"

[NersEllenson]

You're too much.

"If you don't agree with my wildly optimistic statements about Marquette, you must not be a true fan!"

Well Sultan - Fact is..goodgreatgrand is a Syracuse fan #1...take a long look at the post history..it becomes quite clear...like I said.I have no problem with it..but just don't be in the closet about it...

[NersEllenson]

I don't think there's enough data to establish much of a difference.

Syracuse has had 20 RSCI top 100 players from 2000 to 2009 (Edelin, Forth, Anthony, McNamara, Nichols, Watkins, Roberts, J Wright, D. Wright, Devendorf, Maybin, Mike Jones, Harris, Green, Flynn, Jardine, Jackson, Riley, Mookie Jones & Joseph), and five have made the NBA so far (Anthony, Nichols, Watkins, Green & Flynn).   

MU has had 10 top 100 over the same interval (Merritt, Diener, Novak, James, McNeal, Matthews, Mbakwe, Cadougan, Willams & Maymon), three have made it to the NBA so far (Diener, Novak, & Matthews). 

MU has had 1 player not in the RSCI top 100 make the NBA over the last 10 years (Wade)
Syracuse has had 2 (Warrick & Johnson)

MU's McNeal and SU's Rautins & McNamara have made summer camps but not yet appeared in a league game.

You are a research machine..what abut Lazar Hayward...where was he ranked in the RSCI?

[DaCoach]

Zone probably also helps to recruit white shooting guards that would not be quick enough to play man to man.

As opposed to slow black guards?

[hoyasincebirth]

How do you figure?

When you get top talent, there not that far away from NBA ready...so what do you want Syracuse to do with them in just one year?

Id say Rautins was developed pretty well. Kris Joseph could very well be a lottery pick next year, he has gotten better every year.

Really? Joseph has gotten better every year? Yes he improved freshman to sophomore year, but that's as small as you can get in terms of sample size 

Oh and Syracuse is the most god for saken place on the earth. The world would be a better place if it was wiped from the face of the earth.

[Benny B]

Look at that crowd, and admire their restraint.  You just know that their collective egos are thinking about jumping Brad and kicking the crap out of him.