Latest Newbill Developments

[avid1010]

Therein lies the problem and why lives are affected when you throw 18 year olds under a bus and don't honor commitments.

Yet people here get cranky when this is pointed out and the messenger is the bad guy.  The koolaid is very strong for some.  Jim Jones is smiling in hell somewhere.

My guess is you're right, but it's just a guess, as is yours.  The problem is that you state your assumptions as if they are facts, without any mention that there's a chance you may be incorrect or not understanding the situation. 

A few weeks ago you were arguing that this is a business, and now you're arguing that we're throwing 18 year old kids under the bus.  I'm not sure you can have it both ways.

[bradforster]

Fair enough Brew City.  I also have a degree from MU and called the basketball games during my days at the school.  I haven't missed a game in years because I have the BIG East network and ESPN Full Court packages.  I would say we are both equally qualified to discuss Marquette hoops.  And yes, I too want the best for both parties.  The Newbill folks called me to tell their story.  I did not solicit information from them regarding this release request.  They felt bad I had spent a great deal of time researching, writing and editing a feature on DJ only for it not to be posted next week as planned.  

I hope DJ lands on his feet and has an outstanding career elsewhere.  As far as the application process, DJ was instructed to take his time on the essay portion.  No firm deadline had been presented to him.  As an 18 year old ready to play basketball he was preparing to join the team through strength and conditioning training and practice on the court.  When Scott called Stan to discuss the application, Stan told him they could have it ready promptly.  Again, DJ was instructed to take his time on the essay.  That is what I have been told.  From everything I have heard from Stan on this end and seen with my own eyes, I believe him.  Is it so bad to believe in someone, especially when the person provides evidentiary support?

[brewcity77]

Is it so bad to believe in someone, especially when the person provides evidentiary support?

Not in the least, and frankly, that's my main issue right now. Your pieces did help me get behind DJ as a prospect and as a future Warrior. And the story from IWB, coupled with a lot of the things we've heard from Buzz in the past makes me want to believe in him as well. I'm still guessing the answer is somewhere in the middle, but regardless of what it is, I am disappointed that people at Marquette have allowed it to play out this way.

Even if IWB's story is 100% accurate, taking DJ's signature is the exact kind of action that puts us in this position we're in today where we've got a bit of that "ick" feeling. I still feel there was probably some mishandling by those close to DJ and maybe DJ was too quick to sign with a team that wasn't completely sold on him attending, but that doesn't excuse Marquette and Buzz from putting DJ in this position. Take a verbal, tell him it stays as a verbal until he is accepted, and that way if he is really getting offers from WVU or even mid-majors he can lock up his future if that door opens itself to him.

Right now I'm going to hope that Wilson pans out for us and DJ finds a good fit for him as soon as possible. And for whatever it's worth, at least one Marquette alum is empathizing with DJ for how things turned out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We and you don't know that exactly what he was told.  What if he was told that the offer was conditional and that he could sign the LOI if he chose but that there were other developments that could affect his being actually being on the team and yet, he decided to take his chances?  Then, whose at fault?

So I should just ignore what the kid, family, and his coaches are saying? 

[MUfan12]

So I should just ignore what the kid, family, and his coaches are saying? 

The same way you're completely dismissing what IWB said? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

What I find odd in both the Roseboro and Newbill case is that Buzz had an assistant break the bad news to the kid.  Why?

In the Roseboro articles it says clearly that Buzz is not the one that called to tell them.  In the Newbill article, it says that Monarch called.


Why is the dirty work being done by the assistant coaches and not the captain of the ship?  Or, perhaps the articles are wrong and Buzz did make those calls.  Odd, though, that both articles would say that about two different players over two different years.

[Litehouse]

What exactly is the Newbill camp saying that refutes anything IWB said?  And by Newbill camp I mean not Coach Laws, since IWB's story is that he wasn't involved.  From what I've seen, they've said they're a little upset this happened and they're not happy he can't go to another Big East school now.

[avid1010]

What I find odd in both the Roseboro and Newbill case is that Buzz had an assistant break the bad news to the kid.  Why?

In the Roseboro articles it says clearly that Buzz is not the one that called to tell them.  In the Newbill article, it says that Monarch called.


Why is the dirty work being done by the assistant coaches and not the captain of the ship?  Or, perhaps the articles are wrong and Buzz did make those calls.  Odd, though, that both articles would say that about two different players over two different years.

Still grasping at straws and unwilling to admit you know nothing more than anyone else, but have decided not to reserve judgement and rather find fault.  Who knows why the assistants break the news, maybe they're also the ones to offer, but that is the least of my worries right now.  How much time do you spend trying to think this crap up?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Even if IWB's story is 100% accurate, taking DJ's signature is the exact kind of action that puts us in this position we're in today where we've got a bit of that "ick" feeling. I still feel there was probably some mishandling by those close to DJ and maybe DJ was too quick to sign with a team that wasn't completely sold on him attending, but that doesn't excuse Marquette and Buzz from putting DJ in this position. Take a verbal, tell him it stays as a verbal until he is accepted, and that way if he is really getting offers from WVU or even mid-majors he can lock up his future if that door opens itself to him.

+ 1000000000000000


Exactly on point.  Why accept a NLI if there was a significant chance you were going to blow the kid off.  There is NO REASON for MU and Buzz to have put themselves in this position. 

Brewcity states it very well and definitely what we should have done.  We either want the kid or we don't, instead we told the kid we wanted him to keep him from going elsewhere and then cast him aside when a prettier girl came along.  That is just not right and MU and Buzz have egg on their face now

THAT is what people are upset about and "ick" feeling that Brew talks of.   Well said Brew!!

[Pakuni]

I am not so sure about this. He had a valid contract. The only thing lacking was the failure to submit his application, which in my mind is a correctible error. I am not a lawyer, but what steps did MU take to see that he followed through with that part. Has MU in the past asked other recruits where their paper work was? I would think every school would normally keep on top of getting the necessary paper work done for an incoming recruit. Look at the Mbao situation last year. Buzz said they wre following up daily with the clearing house. My impression of Buzz is that he leaves no stone unturned, but they let Newbill sit on his application. As far as I see it MU's(Buzz's) only out is if they can prove they had a verbal agreement with DJ to not submit the paper work or to go to prep school, so they could use the scholarship elsewhere. If they can do that it would get them off the hook with Newbill, but quite frankly then the NCAA should be coming to MU to look at what is going on. At a minimum the NCAA needs to change their rule to make this a violation in the future. It would be a very interesting case if it went to court. Newbill would be arguing he was denied the value of an MU education and how would MU effectively degrade the value of their own educational degree to show that Newbill was not damaged. However, the most likely reason for Newbill's family getting a lawyer is to get the prohibition form signing with another Big East team lifted. As much as I love MU, the perfect justice to me would have Newbill beat MU on a last second shot. I do not like what went on here at all.

You're plainly wrong here. There was no valid contract. Read the language associated of the letter of intent. It clearly states that the deal is binding if - and only if - the school admits the student. Marquette University did not admit DJ Newbill. Heck, even if they wanted to, they couldn't have admitted DJ Newbill. Therefore, there is no binding contract.
On top of that, MU is under no obligation to admit a prospective student - athlete or not - simply because he has submitted an application. that's the point some are missing. It doesn't matter whether he submitted an application or not. Marquette has every right to deny him admission, application and all.

[Litehouse]

+ 1000000000000000


Exactly on point.  Why accept a NLI if there was a significant chance you were going to blow the kid off.  There is NO REASON for MU and Buzz to have put themselves in this position. 

Brewcity states it very well and definitely what we should have done.  We either want the kid or we don't, instead we told the kid we wanted him to keep him from going elsewhere and then cast him aside when a prettier girl came along.  That is just not right and MU and Buzz have egg on their face now

THAT is what people are upset about and "ick" feeling that Brew talks of.   Well said Brew!!

That's great, and I think everyone agrees it was a bad decision for the coaches to take the NLI when they were still looking for someone else, but that doesn't mean Newbill's camp didn't know this was a possibility.  It's a big leap between those two positions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're plainly wrong here. There was no valid contract. Read the language associated of the letter of intent. It clearly states that the deal is binding if - and only if - the school admits the student. Marquette University did not admit DJ Newbill. Heck, even if they wanted to, they couldn't have admitted DJ Newbill. Therefore, there is no binding contract.
On top of that, MU is under no obligation to admit a prospective student - athlete or not - simply because he has submitted an application. that's the point some are missing. It doesn't matter whether he submitted an application or not. Marquette has every right to deny him admission, application and all.

You are absolutely correct....that's where spirit comes into play.  That's where what is the right thing to do comes into play.   If this kid was a 5 star player, he's getting in and any nonsense about an application and an essay not quite right are not even an issue.  And we all know it.

[77ncaachamps]

Just thought of this: if newbill *was* available, do you think WVU would sign him over Noreen?

[Ready2Fly]

You're absolutely right. There wouldn't be an issue with a 5*, because a 5* wouldn't be given a contingent offer. Newbill was. Hence the difference.

[ATWizJr]

Still grasping at straws and unwilling to admit you know nothing more than anyone else, but have decided not to reserve judgement and rather find fault.  Who knows why the assistants break the news, maybe they're also the ones to offer, but that is the least of my worries right now.  How much time do you spend trying to think this crap up?

Exactly!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The same way you're completely dismissing what IWB said? 

I didn't realize IWB's words were the end all be all.  I like Jim, he's well connected and a good guy.  He also has a relationship with MU that I'm sure he would like to keep in tact, don't you think?  Maybe he only knows what they are feeding him.  Who knows.   What you seem to be saying MUfan12, is that this kid is lying, his high school coach is lying, his AAU coach is lying and his parents are lying.  Is that possible?  Yup.  Is it also possible that maybe MU was extremely vague with this kid and there was bad communications and intent?  Yup.  It is also possible that MU just flat out pulled the rug under this kid?  Yup.

All are possible.    So then I go to common sense and I ask myself, why on earth would MU accept a kid's NLI if they were going to Prep School him?  Why not just take a verbal and send him to prep school?  And then I ask myself, why on earth would a kid give up all his options and sign a NLI if there was a strong chance he was going to not be admitted which would mean almost no viable options for him come July?  And then I ask myself, if Jamil Wilson wasn't transferring into MU, would Newbill be a Marquette player (answer is yes)....which is even more bothersome since rumors are that Wilson and MU have been in contact for months, not just recently.

MU could have avoided all of this by not taking the kid's NLI. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Still grasping at straws and unwilling to admit you know nothing more than anyone else, but have decided not to reserve judgement and rather find fault.  Who knows why the assistants break the news, maybe they're also the ones to offer, but that is the least of my worries right now.  How much time do you spend trying to think this crap up?

Thanks for answering the question.  Why is it in both articles in both years, Buzz isn't the guy telling the poor kid he's out and having an assistant do it?  That isn't a fair question?  I think it is, don't know why you decided not to answer it but spent a lot time going on the attack again.

And what is there to admit...of course I don't know anything more than anyone else on this, I'm just going with the information we have.  You've come to one conclusion, I've come to another.  Other blogs, message boards, articles have come to my conclusion.  MU Kool Aid drinkers have come to your conclusion.  That's fine, they are just opinions.  The answer it probably somewhere in the middle.

I could see this scenario...."yes, MU told us there was a chance that he would have to go to Prep school, but we were told the chances were almost nil".  Under that scenario, yes, he would have been informed that Prep School was possible...but would that make the kid, family, etc think it's likely? 

Hell, there's a chance I could die on my flight tomorrow, and I've been warned.  I'm still getting on the plane and if it goes down I can guarantee you there will be lawsuits happening.  It comes down to what was said, what was offered, was interpreted.    I just wish it was Buzz who was delivering the good news and bad news, that's what leaders do, not just the good news.

[avid1010]

And what is there to admit...of course I don't know anything more than anyone else on this, I'm just going with the information we have.  You've come to one conclusion, I've come to another.  Other blogs, message boards, articles have come to my conclusion.  MU Kool Aid drinkers have come to your conclusion.  That's fine, they are just opinions.  The answer it probably somewhere in the middle.

Absolutely not...you're the one drawing conclusions, I'm the one waiting for more information before I draw mine.  Big difference.  I'm guessing Buzz has a high level of fault here, but I'm not going to bash him for it until I know it's true.  I think he deserves that.

[burger]

He never even sent his application......Please!

Are we to believe "everyone" is "so" naive?

Are you guys really Marquette graduates?

Have you guys ever moved from "one" serious job to another and moved "somewhere across the country" and have not signed all your "contracts/offer" and dotted all the "i's and crossed the t's" before you resigned your previous position?

Just a thought!

[NersEllenson]

So then I go to common sense and I ask myself, why on earth would MU accept a kid's NLI if they were going to Prep School him?  Why not just take a verbal and send him to prep school?  And then I ask myself, why on earth would a kid give up all his options and sign a NLI if there was a strong chance he was going to not be admitted which would mean almost no viable options for him come July?  And then I ask myself, if Jamil Wilson wasn't transferring into MU, would Newbill be a Marquette player (answer is yes)....which is even more bothersome since rumors are that Wilson and MU have been in contact for months, not just recently.

MU could have avoided all of this by not taking the kid's NLI. 

Not a fan of this transaction and move - however, the reason MU would take Newbill's NLI..and not just keep him at verbal status is: 1) It prevents other schools from recruiting him. 2)Which puts MU in the lead position and likely destination at the end of a year in Prep School.  My sincere belief in all of this is that Buzz wanted Newbill at MU, but not in this class - but in the 2011/2012 class.  My guess is Newbill did know this was a possiblity all along, but had his hopes up due to getting so close to getting to MU this year..and now this is a big let down...and disappointment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Absolutely not...you're the one drawing conclusions, I'm the one waiting for more information before I draw mine.  Big difference.  I'm guessing Buzz has a high level of fault here, but I'm not going to bash him for it until I know it's true.  I think he deserves that.

I am drawing conclusions, based on the stories so far....so are other people.


But at the end of the day, if IWB is 100% accurate this is still a BS way to conduct business.  We should not be signing kids to NLI's and letting them out of them in the 11th hour.  PERIOD.  It looks terrible on MU's part, even if we told the kid 24/7/365 that he could be let out of it.  There is zero reason for us to do this.  You either want him or you don't want him, this halfway crap and trying to lock him up via a NLI just in case is crap.

[Jay Bee]

I am drawing conclusions, based on the stories so far....so are other people.
trying to lock him up via a NLI just in case is crap.

What 'story so far' says that we tried 'to lock him up via a NLI just in case'?

You're full of it.  It's always funny to watch a sociopath whine about the perceived 'bad behaviors' of others, but this 'fun' should stop now.

[brewcity77]

Absolutely not...you're the one drawing conclusions, I'm the one waiting for more information before I draw mine.  Big difference.  I'm guessing Buzz has a high level of fault here, but I'm not going to bash him for it until I know it's true.  I think he deserves that.

Just curious, does anyone really honestly believe we'll get more information on the Marquette side of the story than what IWB wrote? I just can't see it. My guess is there are probably restrictions on what they can say, and any backtracking would only lend credence to Newbill's right to feel aggrieved.

I just want to move on from this. I accept that it should have been handled better on all sides, and really hope this is the last such incident we see for quite awhile. I want Marquette to win, but I don't want NCAA inquests and legitimate comparisons to the John Calipari school of recruiting. My guess is we will never get the answers we want.

Best of luck to both DJ and to Jamil Wilson, and I really hope Buzz knows that we expect better. Even if IWB's story is completely true, I know there is a better way of conducting business. If the instructors and priests at Marquette taught me nothing else, they did teach me that.

[jesmu84]

I am drawing conclusions, based on the stories so far....so are other people.


But at the end of the day, if IWB is 100% accurate this is still a BS way to conduct business.  We should not be signing kids to NLI's and letting them out of them in the 11th hour.  PERIOD.  It looks terrible on MU's part, even if we told the kid 24/7/365 that he could be let out of it.  There is zero reason for us to do this.  You either want him or you don't want him, this halfway crap and trying to lock him up via a NLI just in case is crap.

I agree with this all having an "ick" factor in the way it played out. But my BIGGEST question about the situation: If DJ wanted so badly to come to MU, why did he not have the application/essay filled out and sent in a week before he was to arrive on campus?  True, as a 5 star it may have been done for him, but that's not the point I'm questioning.  I just want someone to explain to me, if DJ really wanted to come to MU, and he really thought he was going to play here in 2010, why was his application/essay not turned in yet?

[Avenue Commons]

Boooriiiing.

This is starting to go in circles like the name change debate. It's over. People have a difference of opinion and that's it. The kid isn't coming. Good luck to him. Hopefully everyone learns from this and we are all better coaches, players, administrators and human beings. Life goes on.