Use this thread to apologize to Buzz

[CrazyEcho]

if you doubted that he was totally upfront to DJ. 

[Brewtown Andy]

Heh.

[reinko]

No.

[CrazyEcho]

No.

Come on, I know you want to.  We're a Catholic school, it'll be just like confession.  You'll feel a lot better afterward. 

[GoldenWarrior]

Did I miss a report detailing everything?

[Brewtown Andy]

Did I miss a report detailing everything?

Check the IWB thread.

[LAZER]

He has set a precedent here though hasn't he?  Typically coaches don't offer in this situation, which i'm sure happens time and time again.  I'm an unabashed Buzz supporter btw.

[GoldenWarrior]

Check the IWB thread.

Just did, thanks

[Litehouse]

I'm not sure an apology is in order.  No matter what the circumstances are, it still doesn't look good on the surface.  It might have been better to just not get the NLI from Newbill, even if he knew the situation and still wanted to sign it.

[HoopsMalone]

Buzz is year three as a head coach.  He went right to a big program.  He is not going to be perfect.  He really did not do anything technically wrong, but maybe he could have handled it with more grace.

[GoldenWarrior]

Buzz is year three as a head coach.  He went right to a big program.  He is not going to be perfect.  He really did not do anything technically wrong, but maybe he could have handled it with more grace.

Does anyone know the rules with speaking to a player signed on elsewhere?  I'm wondering if Buzz violated NCAA ragulation with Wilson... certainly seems they were in communication prior to Wilson receiving his freedom from the Ducks...

[MUBurrow]

you can be upfront and still handle things poorly. just because you are honest about poor behavior doesn't exempt you from blame for it.  LOIs are meant to carry finality, and are meant to publicly express the commitment the player and the team have to each other. thats why other teams can't recruit the player and why the NCAA takes signing LOIs so seriously and forces the team to allow players out of them when they switch coaches, rather than just the NCAA overriding the LOI.  it is the equivalent of an NCAA BB marriage, which the parties need to annul themselves.

so when Buzz allowed DJ to sign, even if he was upfront with him, he took away DJs power while preserving his own.  DJ was no longer capable of talking with other teams and was at the complete mercy of MUs ability to recruit over him.  however he was not able to develop a contingency plan. it seems to me like DJ's love and commitment to MU was used against him.  he wanted so badly to come to MU that he was allowed to sign while MU continued going to the singles bars.  just because MU came home every night and admitted they were trying to get lucky doesn't make it right when DJ is doing everything you could hope for.

[CrazyEcho]

you can be upfront and still handle things poorly. just because you are honest about poor behavior doesn't exempt you from blame for it.  LOIs are meant to carry finality, and are meant to publicly express the commitment the player and the team have to each other. thats why other teams can't recruit the player and why the NCAA takes signing LOIs so seriously and forces the team to allow players out of them when they switch coaches, rather than just the NCAA overriding the LOI.  it is the equivalent of an NCAA BB marriage, which the parties need to annul themselves.

so when Buzz allowed DJ to sign, even if he was upfront with him, he took away DJs power while preserving his own.  DJ was no longer capable of talking with other teams and was at the complete mercy of MUs ability to recruit over him.  however he was not able to develop a contingency plan. it seems to me like DJ's love and commitment to MU was used against him.  he wanted so badly to come to MU that he was allowed to sign while MU continued going to the singles bars.  just because MU came home every night and admitted they were trying to get lucky doesn't make it right when DJ is doing everything you could hope for.

What DJ got out of signing a LOI:  A chance to play at MU this year (assuming we didn't sign a 3/4/5) and a promise that he could go to prep school and be part of our next recruiting class. 

DJ had other scholarship offers.  He could have taken them.  He thought his one scholarship offer from a high major program was worth the shot.  There's nothing wrong with that. 

What MU got out of signing a LOI:  A back-up plan for this year (in case we didn't sign a 3/4/5) and a solid recruit for our next recruiting class.  Plus, knowledge that he couldn't talk to other teams. 

Since we released him from his LOI, he can now do that and sign with a team for next year late . . . or go to prep school and go elsewhere. 

He's not that highly regarded of a recruit and a year in prep school (especially with a chip on his shoulder) may end up serving him well and he may end up with offers from many great schools.

[jesmu84]

Edit: What CrazyEcho said ^^

[ChicosBailBonds]

The IWB thread has everything?  Really?

So if something comes out of the Newbill camp in a few days like it did with the Roseboro camp, it should just be ignored?

I'll ask again as it doesn't seem to get answered.  WHY did we have this kid sign a NLI if he wasn't going to be coming here? 

I have a very hard time believing we told this kid "sure, sign a NLI but if another, better prospect comes along we're going to cut you".  What recruit on earth would go for that?

[CrazyEcho]

I'll ask again as it doesn't seem to get answered.  WHY did we have this kid sign a NLI if he wasn't going to be coming here? 

I have a very hard time believing we told this kid "sure, sign a NLI but if another, better prospect comes along we're going to cut you".  What recruit on earth would go for that?

1st paragraph:  I think there were benefits to both sides (see my post above).

2nd paragraph: One who only has one high-major offer.  He decided that the chance of going to Marquette discounted by the probability that we'd find a suitable 3/4/5 was worth the risk.  Plus, we'd take him in next year's class if he goes to prep school. 

[Pakuni]

The IWB thread has everything?  Really?

So if something comes out of the Newbill camp in a few days like it did with the Roseboro camp, it should just be ignored?

I'll ask again as it doesn't seem to get answered.  WHY did we have this kid sign a NLI if he wasn't going to be coming here? 

I have a very hard time believing we told this kid "sure, sign a NLI but if another, better prospect comes along we're going to cut you".  What recruit on earth would go for that?

Perhaps you'll apologize after evaluating the situation for another three to five years.

So, given all we know at this point - including prior public statements that a member of the recruiting class would not be coming to MU this year - are you suggesting that Phillycoach is the more reliable source here than IWB?

[bilsu]

if you doubted that he was totally upfront to DJ. 

I think he was totally upfront with DJ, but he was not totally upfront with us. He should have said all along that the plans were for DJ to go to prep school to develope his game instead of implying a player is going to prep school. Buzz should have made it clear to us when Newbill signed. We been speculating for two months who had grade problems, when apparently nobody did.

[MUBurrow]

this is such a slippery slope though, and its only okay if you take a lackadaisical approach toward LOIs.  for instance, what if Buzz tells DJ he will always be recruiting over him? so if Jamil doesn't come along and next year Buzz finds someone else that is too good to pass up, is it okay if he lets DJ go then?

If you say no, because he is already on the team - the whole point of an LOI is to put a player onto the team.  Just because a bunch of time has passed and the player is seemingly entrenched doesn't make that less ethical when the signed LOI has the purpose of publicly declaring your team.

Also if you say no - are you okay with Buzz committing then to a kid he doesn't think is Big East material for four years?  The whole point of the prep school thing is to see what comes of him, not to assure him a spot next year.  DJ would have been competing with whoever Buzz finds for those schollies too.  Its also not like DJ would magically be a Big East player after sitting on our bench for a year had Jamil not come along.  But if you draw the line after a year of being on the team, that means that either a) Buzz would have locked up a four year scholarship with a non Big East player or b) Buzzcut him.  Neither are heartwarming options.

[CrazyEcho]

I think he was totally upfront with DJ, but he was not totally upfront with us. He should have said all along that the plans were for DJ to go to prep school to develope his game instead of implying a player is going to prep school. Buzz should have made it clear to us when Newbill signed. We been speculating for two months who had grade problems, when apparently nobody did.

I think you grossly over-estimate the importance of "us."  Buzz doesn't owe us anything.

[bilsu]

I think you grossly over-estimate the importance of "us."  Buzz doesn't owe us anything.

I think Buzz owes the fans everything. We are the people buying the tickets and donating to the Blue & Gold fund.

[CrazyEcho]

I think Buzz owes the fans everything. We are the people buying the tickets and donating to the Blue & Gold fund.

Well, then you can go ahead and continue to be shocked/outraged when you're not privy to inside information on recruiting and other major athletic department decisions. 

[jmayer1]

So if something comes out of the Newbill camp in a few days like it did with the Roseboro camp, it should just be ignored?

You've mentioned this several times but seem to ignore what actually came out of Roseboro's mouth when he left.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/54402887.html

Do you believe the people in his "camp" over him?  Do you think Rosiak misquoted him? Do you think Brett was just being nice?

[bilsu]

I think he left, because he felt like he was not going to play. The funny part about it is Maymon left, Otule got injured and so did Mbao. He may have actually played if he had stayed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You've mentioned this several times but seem to ignore what actually came out of Roseboro's mouth when he left.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/54402887.html

Do you believe the people in his "camp" over him?  Do you think Rosiak misquoted him? Do you think Brett was just being nice?

Let's reverse the questions.  Do you believe Roseboro's coaches were misquoted?  Do you believe Roseboro's coaches were lying?  Do you believe that Roseboro probably wanted to just put it to bed and not deal with anymore?  

http://blog.northstarbball.com/2009/08/21/major-news-brett-roseboro-leaving-marquette.aspx

http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2009-0822/busy-week-at-marquette/




By the way, remarkably similar stories if you read the quotes from Roseboro's coach and Phillycoach.