Crean Opinion

[mikem91288]

This latest Crean thread has some of the most action of any thread I've seen in a few weeks. I'm a current MU student, and I always get S**T when I am Tom Crean's only defender when me and the guys are chatting about Marquette Basketball. Most students all hate him and boo him when his picture comes up on the intro at games. I never boo him. I say to them, Crean got us Dwayne Wade - he took a chance on Wade. Sure he got  lucky as to how great DWade became, but he went to bat for a kid that had terrible grades coming in here. Students here love Dom James, Wes, and Jerel, but I've never heard them say "Wow that was a really great job by Tom Crean to get those three guys here in that class". Somehow that has been forgotten too. I mean the list goes on from Diener, Novak, Robert Jackson, you get the picture. Was the way Crean left pretty shady? Yes. Did I think he was a huge dbag when he was on ESPN saying "It's Indiana"? - Yes. But I still realize what he did for this program and do not hate him - unlike 99% of my fellow students which to me is a disappointment. Heck many students admit they first heard of Marquette when we made the Final Four under Crean. Fake tanning and diet  pepsis aside, what do you all think? Am I crazy or just telling it like it is?

[chapman]

Two years too late.  Will it never end?

[MU B2002]

You forgot to add a line about disliking the GE nickname.

[4everwarriors]

You're young, you'll learn.

[martyconlonontherun]

I agree. Broken record.

I just find it funny, the people who hate Crean the most were people that thought he was the greatest at Marquette. It's also the same people who won't let people say anything negative about Buzz. All NCAA coaches have their flaws.

[Blackhat]

I've ripped Buzz repeatedly on this site when our defense has sucked and I was one of his biggest backers to have him hired.

Not seeing the restrictions there (although I don't remember what 99% of posters say in response to my posts). 

Little hint: you can't be stopped, post away on Buzz's negatives.

[GoldenWarrior]

Can the board moderators just eliminate any thread that speaks to Crean and his tenure here automatically?  That would be nice.

[brewcity77]

I respect what Crean did for Marquette. Without him, there's likely no D-Wade, no Final Four, no Big East invitation (which is almost undoubtedly true and often left out of the discussion), no Big Three, and no Buzz Williams. That being said, he's gone and really none of my concern now. I hated him at first, but life's too damn short.

We have a great coach in Buzz, a bright future, and a bunch of kids I really like to cheer for. I'm glad TC put us back on the map, but the only time I give him any thought is when another of these threads pops up.

[Skatastrophy]

Can the board moderators just eliminate any thread that speaks to Crean and his tenure here automatically?  That would be nice.

The moderators have their price, I'm sure

[GGGG]

This latest Crean thread has some of the most action of any thread I've seen in a few weeks.

So you decided to start a new one?   

[Henry Sugar]

The moderators have their price, I'm sure

What is your price?

[Blackhat]

Tom Crean

[tower912]

Thank you, coach Crean, for your service to MU.   You have moved on.   Apparently, some here still can't.   

[Skatastrophy]

What is your price?

Will a pat on the back suffice?

[LCDutchman]

Tom Crean is a lightning rod for the new style of coaches.  He is never wrong.  His players fail because they don't buy into the program.  It's us against them.  Blah blah blah.  I sat in the front row for five years of his garbage mouth tantrums and watched twice when his best player was injured at the end of the year due to stupid pet trick practices.  Defending Tom Crean is like defending Bozo the Clown. 

[Wade for President]

Defending Tom Crean is like defending Bozo the Clown. 

I loved playing 'Bozo Buckets', but can't figure out for the life of me what that means?!?

[Canadian Dimes]

I agree. Broken record.

I just find it funny, the people who hate Crean the most were people that thought he was the greatest at Marquette. It's also the same people who won't let people say anything negative about Buzz. All NCAA coaches have their flaws.

sorry beleive what you want.  I have ripped Crean as a loser since 2005.  When we were getting smoked by 20 night in and night out in C-usa during the 5th!!! and 6th!!! years of his tenure at MU with a team consisting on Horizon league talent.  I then continued to rip him as he had 3 hard to guard guards and some shooters to spcae the floor but we pounded the ball for 30 seconds every possesion.  I screamed for a motion offnse.  Anyone with any feel for the game saw our roster set up perfectly for motion.  I screamed at Crean when he tried to make Dom James a SG and the focal part of his offense when everyone else in America could tell you that was not his strength.  I hated him from Day 1 for his swarmy disgusting lack of character.  I hated him for his coach speak and being by far the most boring wet blanket i have ever seen.  heard one interview you heard them all.   Actually heard one new coaching accepatance speach you heard them all.  i wonder if he will recycle his MU and IU speeches for Illinois carbondale or whereever he goes in the next few years.

I like buzz for being a straight shooter and having an actual feel for the game including implementing a motion offense on day 1 and watching the 3 amigoes abslutley flourish in it.

[StillAWarrior]

Tom Crean is a lightning rod for the new style of coaches.  He is never wrong.  His players fail because they don't buy into the program.

I'm quite happy with Buzz, but I've read on this board the opinion that Mbao didn't work out because he "didn't buy into the program."  I'm just saying...

[madtownwarrior]

Is it okay to appreciate Tom Crean for what he did for the program but still think he is a dbag of a person?    quite a mixed emotion...

[reinko]

I loved playing 'Bozo Buckets', but can't figure out for the life of me what that means?!?

The grand prize game was so epic.  I feel like everyone knew someone that knew someone that got on tv.

[MUUM794]

It will unfortunately take many years before everyone lets go of their silly grudge with Coach Crean. I understood the overreaction when he left. Everyone gets a pass in the immediate months following the departure, but this topic should have been dead by the end of the 08-09 season.

There are enough eduated basketball fans around the Marquette program that know better. Coaches leave for what are percieved as "bigger" opportunities. It will certianly happen again. We aren't one of the Big 6 (UNC, Duke, KU, UK, IU, UCLA)

As long as Crean is in the limelight at IU, the anger toward him will continue. My only hope is that somehow everyone comes around before that.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I'm sorry if I piss someone off, but if you are a Crean hater you have issues. Tom Crean did so much for Marquette. MU was lucky to get 300 students at a game and he build it up where student seasons-tickets are over 4,000.

Crean took MU to it's first final four since 1977.

Crean always wanted MU on TV and has the main person to bring ESPN College Gameday to Milwaukee.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Tom Crean molests collies.

[Canadian Dimes]

I'm sorry if I piss someone off, but if you are a Crean hater you have issues. Tom Crean did so much for Marquette. MU was lucky to get 300 students at a game and he build it up where student seasons-tickets are over 4,000.

Crean took MU to it's first final four since 1977.

Crean always wanted MU on TV and has the main person to bring ESPN College Gameday to Milwaukee.

MUpanther you must have read all of Creans press clippings.  Son if you really beleive that then you have no idea what you are talking about.  Kevin Oneill's teams avergaed the same as Tom creans teams.  I was Mu when Bob Dukiet was there and I had student seats in the upper deck of the Bradley.  Back then you had assigned seats with seniors getting priority, then juniors etc.  Last i knew the lower level of the bradley student section held more than 300.  you are delusional and need to do more than read tom creans bio if you want to learn about Mu history.

additionally I hald no ill will to Crean for taking the IU job.  Dont blame him at all, and while he could have possibly done a better job in the exit there is no good way to do it.  I was simply happy he left.  I hated the man years before he left.  The great pretender signed Dwade and owes his entire career to him.  he has literally done basically nothing apart from signing him a nd being a complete douchebag

[brewcity77]

Oh give it a rest. So you don't like him. Who cares? If he doesn't sign Wade, we don't make the Final Four, which was pretty awesome as I remember. And we also would still be in C-USA, with all the national attention that befits a team that gets to compete with UAB and East Carolina.

He did good things for Marquette, he left in d-bag fashion, but since his departure, both parties are better off. Him because of the paycheck and us because of Buzz. Can't that be enough?

[Mr. Nielsen]

MUpanther you must have read all of Creans press clippings.  Son if you really beleive that then you have no idea what you are talking about.  Kevin Oneill's teams avergaed the same as Tom creans teams.  I was Mu when Bob Dukiet was there and I had student seats in the upper deck of the Bradley.  Back then you had assigned seats with seniors getting priority, then juniors etc.  Last i knew the lower level of the bradley student section held more than 300.  you are delusional and need to do more than read tom creans bio if you want to learn about Mu history.

additionally I hald no ill will to Crean for taking the IU job.  Dont blame him at all, and while he could have possibly done a better job in the exit there is no good way to do it.  I was simply happy he left.  I hated the man years before he left.  The great pretender signed Dwade and owes his entire career to him.  he has literally done basically nothing apart from signing him a nd being a complete douchebag

What do I have no idea on? During the Kevin O'Neil days a big student crowd would be the lower bowl filled up. Now, for the cupcake games there are many students in the upper deck. Crean has said what the student season-tickets numbers were when he took over. 300 to 4,000

Plus, I never said at all that Kevin O'Neil didn't draw big crowds when he was coach at MU. So I don't know what your saying there. But.... O'Neil's best year in 93-94 they drew 14,347. Crean has had four season's well over 15,000.

[wojosdojo]

I agree with the post, respect what TC has done for us, and all the haters do too but him leaving made people forget what he has accomplished.

That said, I'm still waiting for some possible way to face its indiana, it'd be sweet to see MU smoke Tommy.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You guys are complete SAPS!! Attendance at Marquette has ALWAYS! been stellar. We have an unbelievablly faithful fanbase among alums. As a matter of fact, the constant chest beating by Crean about how he resurrected fan interest is what initially started to send up warning signs about what a dick he is. Unfortunately, you've bought into another one of the lies told by the absolute A-HOLE who actually believes he invented basketball at Marquette University.

Here are numbers from 1990 to 2006. I don't have the desire to look up 07 or 08.

1990      13301 (Year one of O'Neill)
1991      13433
1992      12613
1993      13443
1994      14348 (hmmm...was Crean selling tickets this year?)
1995      12814
1996      12754
1997      12247
1998      11508
1999      12145
2000      9971 (who was coaching then?)
2001      11360
2002      12680
2003      15553
2004      15291
2005      11965 (two years after the FF!!!)
2006      13998

Keep burying your faces in Crean's pale, sweaty backside, though. I said it when he was here and I'll say it again. He's basically Bill Hodges (Bird's coach at Indiana St.) with
a better collection of leadership books.

[ChicosBailBonds]

PuertoRicanNightmare link=topic=20549.msg214104#msg214104 date=1274239206

Let me fill in the void my friend.  I'll provide the desire you lack, especially since those last two years coincidentally happen to be 2 of the 3 highest attendance years in the history of Marquette basketball

Here are numbers from 1990 to 20062008. I don't have the desire to look up 07 or 08.

1990      13301 (Year one of O'Neill)
1991      13433
1992      12613
1993      13443
1994      14348 (hmmm...was Crean selling tickets this year?)
1995      12814
1996      12754
1997      12247
1998      11508
1999      12145  (talented marketing team INCREASED attendance despite a losing year and no post season   )
2000      9971 (Following the first losing season since 1991, lost talented marketing staff prior to season starting   )
2001      11360
2002      12680
2003      15553 2nd Highest in MU history
2004      15291  4th Highest in MU history
2005      11965 (two years after the FF!!!)
2006      13998
2007          15345  3rd Highest in MU history
2008          16239  Highest in MU history

So 4 of the 5 highest attended years in MU history (at the time) happened while he was coach and people are SAPS?  Or are they just looking at the facts, oh I don't know.  Keep in mind that KO's highest attended year was almost 1000 per game lower than Crean's NIT year of 2004.  That was also on the heels of the first NCAA tournament appearance for MU in a decade...do you think that might have had something to do with it?

Oh, and one more thing, during KO's era, the Wisconsin Badgers sucked some of the biggest Donkey Balls on the planet and had been doing that for 50 years.  During the Crean era, Wisconsin was well into their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances, including a FINAL FOUR.  UWM was also a two time NCAA participant....the competition for the college basketball fan in SE Wisconsin was just a wee bit fiercer during the Crean era than Kevin O'Neill's, yet somehow those teams still packed in 4 of the 5 highest attended years in Marquette history.

Those damn SAPs.

[Lennys Tap]

PuertoRicanNightmare link=topic=20549.msg214104#msg214104 date=1274239206

Let me fill in the void my friend.  I'll provide the desire you lack, especially since those last two years coincidentally happen to be 2 of the 3 highest attendance years in the history of Marquette basketball

Here are numbers from 1990 to 20062008. I don't have the desire to look up 07 or 08.

1990      13301 (Year one of O'Neill)
1991      13433
1992      12613
1993      13443
1994      14348 (hmmm...was Crean selling tickets this year?)
1995      12814
1996      12754
1997      12247
1998      11508
1999      12145  (talented marketing team INCREASED attendance despite a losing year and no post season   )
2000      9971 (Following the first losing season since 1991, lost talented marketing staff prior to season starting   )
2001      11360
2002      12680
2003      15553 2nd Highest in MU history
2004      15291  4th Highest in MU history
2005      11965 (two years after the FF!!!)
2006      13998
2007          15345  3rd Highest in MU history
2008          16239  Highest in MU history

So 4 of the 5 highest attended years in MU history happens while he was coach and people are SAPS?  Or are they just looking at the facts, oh I don't know.  Keep in mind that KO's highest attended year was almost 1000 per game lower than Crean's NIT year of 2004.  That was also on the heels of the first NCAA tournament appearance for MU in a decade...do you think that might have had something to do with it?

Oh, and one more thing, during KO's era, the Wisconsin Badgers sucked some of the biggest Donkey Balls on the planet and had been doing that for 50 years.  During the Crean era, Wisconsin was well into their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances, including a FINAL FOUR.  UWM was also a two time NCAA participant....the competition for the college basketball fan in SE Wisconsin was just a wee bit fiercer during the Crean era than Kevin O'Neill's, yet somehow those teams still packed in 4 of the 5 highest attended years in Marquette history.

Those damn SAPs.

So TC wins with an average of 13,600 to KO's 13,424. Comparing both pre-BEast and the AL(Great Midwest vs Conf USA is a MUCH closer apples to apples comparison) KO wins 13,424 to 12,768. TC has higher highs and lower lows.

The idea that MU lost attendence because of a team who is a hated rival 80 miles to the west I don't buy.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So TC wins with an average of 13,600 to KO's 13,424. Comparing both pre-BEast and the AL(Great Midwest vs Conf USA is a MUCH closer apples to apples comparison) KO wins 13,424 to 12,768. TC has higher highs and lower lows.

The idea that MU lost attendence because of a team who is a hated rival 80 miles to the west I don't buy.

Perhaps you should go to the Badger boards and quite a few will tell you they live in Milwaukee, attended MU games until Bucky got good and now they go to Bucky games....but hey, you just don't buy it.

One other important note.  The Bradley Center opened for the 1988-89 season, and as is the case with ALL NEW ARENAS and STADIUMS, there is a halo effect for attendance that lasts several years, which helped KO in his early days as well.

Let's also not forget that in Buzz's first year, averaging 16,200 with the big 3 in their Senior season and all of Milwaukee knowing they were a lock for the NCAAs before the season even started, those people would have been there if Crean was coach as well....that would be the top 5 of 5 years in attendance in MU history.

At the end of the day, that's the reality of the numbers.

[Canadian Dimes]

Cream avaeraged 160 more per game than Oneill.  Yet he had the benefit of the BE versus the MCC.  Mu has been a top 25 attendance program most years for the last 50 years.  For Crean to claim Mu had 300 student season tickets is a slap in the face.  I sat in the upper deck for Dukiet's final season which was a low point for MU hoops and pretty much a low point for attendance.  How does someone have upper deck seats wehn only 300 are sold in that year or in the years preceeding Crean when attendance was essentially the same. Only the Crean felchers would believe that one.  I am not going to sit here and say Crean never did any good things for Mu but to build himself up through lies is pathetic.  reminds me of when he said DWade would have crawled on his hands and knees to go to IU.  Class act.

[Lennys Tap]

Perhaps you should go to the Badger boards and quite a few will tell you they live in Milwaukee, attended MU games until Bucky got good and now they go to Bucky games....but hey, you just don't buy it.

One other important note.  The Bradley Center opened for the 1988-89 season, and as is the case with ALL NEW ARENAS and STADIUMS, there is a halo effect for attendance that lasts several years, which helped KO in his early days as well.

Let's also not forget that in Buzz's first year, averaging 16,200 with the big 3 in their Senior season and all of Milwaukee knowing they were a lock for the NCAAs before the season even started, those people would have been there if Crean was coach as well....that would be the top 5 of 5 years in attendance in MU history.

At the end of the day, that's the reality of the numbers.

1. A few guys saying something on a message board suggests at best a statistically insignificant number.
2. KO's numbers (unlike TC's) were remarkably consistant and show no evidence of a "halo" effect.
3.When you leave in April you aren't credited for the attendance 8-11 months later.

[mosarsour]

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Wait, Chicos only worked in the AD for 1 year?  I thought developed the entire department, hired Al, recruited Wade and made TC.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The idea that MU lost attendence because of a team who is a hated rival 80 miles to the west I don't buy.

By the way, prior to the 1998-1999 season a comprehensive survey was done for all season ticket holders of Marquette that ranged from pricing, seating assignments, game preferences for days of week, you name it.  I know because I commissioned it.

Several of the questions we asked related to where your sports entertainment dollars are going and general entertainment dollars.  In other words, where else are they spending their money, what other events are we competing against.

It was my first year in that position and some market research was important to understand what we were working with and what changes, if any, we could make to boost attendance.

You may not buy it (your words), but the answers to those questions suggest otherwise.  We did not ask specifically if they were attending Wisconsin Badgers games in Madison, but we did ask if they were attending other college basketball games and the frequency.  Now, that more than likely limited them to Madison or UW Milwaukee or potentially some Chicago schools....the response was surprisingly high.  The number was especially high for non MU alums, which of course makes sense.  They were, afterall, college hoops fans but didn't necessarily have to be only MU fans.  So you may not want to "buy it", but the data suggests you should. 

The 1990's under KO was a different competitive world than it was in the 2000's, yet despite that, attendance soared in the 2000's.  Let's also not forget that prices were more expensive in the 2000's, the points system was also implemented, further barriers to entry but were overcome nevertheless.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Again, how about the student season-ticket numbers. Crean took it from 300 to over 4,000!!!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Again, how about the student season-ticket numbers. Crean took it from 300 to over 4,000!!!!

Well, that's not exactly true....my last year there is was about 2000+, Deane's last year.  Of course we were not good that year and the following year (Crean's first) a lot of people did not sign up from what we had heard.  It wasn't until his second year that things started cooking, but I doubt seriously the number got down to 300.  Maybe showing up, but not sold.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wait, Chicos only worked in the AD for 1 year?  I thought developed the entire department, hired Al, recruited Wade and made TC.

LOL

5 years actually, but only 1 year was I responsible for attendance, ticket sales, television network, radio network, etc.  The previous 4 were spent working as an assistant in those areas and focusing on the other 16 sports we had (since then we've dropped Rifle and Wrestling).

John Dodds is actually the one responsible for starting the department, hiring Al, recruiting Bill Neary and asking Rick Majerus not to crap in a towel anymore at MU basketball camps.  As well as approving the cheerleader squad participants and the role Gail would have in shaping so many of their lives.