Gardner says...

[Litehouse]

Unlike the rest, however, that player (Newbill, it seems), won't be able to attend summer school. Not sure how that affects his summer status on campus.

Why?  If the player is qualified and is going the prep route for other reasons, couldn't they still come on campus all summer and work out with the team.  Maybe even take a few classes to get some credits in advance, then head to prep school in the fall.

[bma725]

No, I didn't forget....I just didn't mention it because in this(these) particular cases, the chances the kid(s) will be asking out of their LOI are slim and none and slim just left. This was all prearranged. A you scratch my back, I will scartch yours type of agreement.

You're assuming things can't change.  Maybe the kid gets to prep school, hates it, and gets pissed at MU for placing him there so he decides to ask for his release.  Nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to recruiting.

[Litehouse]

muguru, just to clarify, you think that a player good enough to play for Marquette would sign a LOI and then go play prep?  You think he would choose that?

I realize that it is possible, but lets be real here.  If someone as good as RS, DG, DN, et al. is good enough to be recruited to play D1 ball for multiple schools, they are going to be playing D1 ball; not dominating kids in prep school.

Maybe.  It's basically the same as red-shirting for a year, but they still get to play in games.  People have given a few examples of similar situations at other schools, like Villanova.  Maybe they liked MU that much more than any of their other alternatives.

[GGGG]

What I don't understand is, unless it is for academic reasons that they are going prep, is Newbill or Smith (making assumptions here) any better than someone Buzz could recruit as a Class of 2011 freshman?

[muguru]

You're assuming things can't change.  Maybe the kid gets to prep school, hates it, and gets pissed at MU for placing him there so he decides to ask for his release.  Nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to recruiting.

I realize things can change, but I am pretty confident they won't. These kids KNEW ahead of time what the agreement was. If they or their parents had any doubts, I don't believe they would have signed the LOI. Granted again, things can change, but I can also become President, that's not going to happen either....but it could.

[Golden Avalanche]

I realize things can change, but I am pretty confident they won't. These kids KNEW ahead of time what the agreement was. If they or their parents had any doubts, I don't believe they would have signed the LOI. Granted again, things can change, but I can also become President, that's not going to happen either....but it could.

In the history of time only one thing is known for sure with teenagers: their minds can change dramatically on a whim.

Do you really believe that schools stop recruiting even with a signed LOI? Do you really think no school would try, through a third party, to recruit a Big East talent at a prep school?

If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?

[Hards Alumni]

In the history of time only one thing is known for sure with teenagers: their minds can change dramatically on a whim.

Do you really believe that schools stop recruiting even with a signed LOI? Do you really think no school would try, through a third party, to recruit a Big East talent at a prep school?

If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?

As to the stop recruit thing, yes.  If they don't and MU or anyone catches them it is an NCAA violation, and not a minor one, IIRC.

[muguru]

If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?


Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.

[hairy worthen]

Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.[/b]

Its only hard to believe if you are desperately looking for any angle to criticize buzz or the program. Is it that much different than recruiting a player with the understanding that they will redshirt? How can you make assumptions on what was said during the recruiting process. Speaking of mind readers its seems there is a lot of mind reading going on into buzz's and recruits heads by some.

[Hards Alumni]

Its only hard to believe if you are desperately looking for any angle to criticize buzz or the program. Is it that much different than recruiting a player with the understanding that they will redshirt? How can you make assumptions on what was said during the recruiting process. Speaking of mind readers its seems there is a lot of mind reading going on into buzz's and recruits heads by some.

sort of what I was getting at.  It is possible, but not probable for this to happen.

[hairy worthen]

sort of what I was getting at.  It is possible, but not probable for this to happen.

Yes, not probable but more likley if it is a player that wants to play in a top conference, but knows he may have to sit a lot his freshman year in order to do it.

[Golden Avalanche]

Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.

It's not far-fetched at all. In fact, it further confirms everything I know. And probably confirms everything anyone who's read this board over the last weeks has picked up on. I wrote about this last week and was taken to task for it but its better to be honest about the situation. Just waiting for the announcement.

As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.

[Hards Alumni]

It's not far-fetched at all. In fact, it further confirms everything I know. And probably confirms everything anyone who's read this board over the last weeks has picked up on. I wrote about this last week and was taken to task for it but its better to be honest about the situation. Just waiting for the announcement.

As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.

How isn't it far-fetched?  Simply because you say it isn't?  Please feel free to back up your argument with examples of this happening frequently.  You deserve to be taken to task for the claim since you have nothing to back up your argument with except your own beliefs.

[bma725]

As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.

No comparison between Green and anything that is going on now.  Green was already known to not be committed to MU before he went to prep school...in fact it was known he wouldn't be here when he left Beloit after his junior year of high school to attempt to improve his grades and get away from bad home life at a HS in California(father in prison, mother on drugs).  

His going to prep was unrelated to MU and had to do with the fact that he didn't improve his grades enough to qualify for NCAA ball....and even after a year at prep school he still couldn't qualify so he spent two years at a JUCO before quitting the game entirely and heading to UW-Whitewater.

[ATWizJr]

ah...the voice of reason.  Thanks bma.

[Golden Avalanche]

How isn't it far-fetched?  Simply because you say it isn't?  Please feel free to back up your argument with examples of this happening frequently.  You deserve to be taken to task for the claim since you have nothing to back up your argument with except your own beliefs.

So it's okay to take someone to task for their beliefs? Opening the door for the political/religious fun!!! Way to jump on that third rail. 

Last week, I wrote that Newbill would go to prep to trim the roster. That has been confirmed by multiple people in private and by multiple people in public (except their words are more flowery in public). There's a little more to it then my willy-nilly nature. I was/am taken to task for writing this. Not for writing that it never and/or always happens. There's a difference.

One recent example of stashing would be the prospect Kennedy from Villanova.

[Golden Avalanche]

No comparison between Green and anything that is going on now.  Green was already known to not be committed to MU before he went to prep school...in fact it was known he wouldn't be here when he left Beloit after his junior year of high school to attempt to improve his grades and get away from bad home life at a HS in California(father in prison, mother on drugs).  

His going to prep was unrelated to MU and had to do with the fact that he didn't improve his grades enough to qualify for NCAA ball....and even after a year at prep school he still couldn't qualify so he spent two years at a JUCO before quitting the game entirely and heading to UW-Whitewater.

I don't remember the public announcement that Green was no longer committed to MU before he went to prep school. Glad you have a better memory then I on this issue.

[Hards Alumni]

So it's okay to take someone to task for their beliefs? Opening the door for the political/religious fun!!! Way to jump on that third rail.  

Last week, I wrote that Newbill would go to prep to trim the roster. That has been confirmed by multiple people in private and by multiple people in public (except their words are more flowery in public). There's a little more to it then my willy-nilly nature. I was/am taken to task for writing this. Not for writing that it never and/or always happens. There's a difference.

One recent example of stashing would be the prospect Kennedy from Villanova.

Okay so you have a bunch of unconfirmable (by anyone but you, apparently) reports that Newbill is going the prep route, not because of grades, but to trim the roster.  And we are supposed to just eat that up and pat you on the back?  I'm sorry, but I was raised, and educated better than to just accept heresay, and conjecture.  I full apologize for asking for concrete facts, my bad.

I am taking you to task for you misrepresenting (considering the lack of evidence) your BELIEFS as FACT.

This isn't difficult to understand.

Additionally, how do you KNOW that Markus Kennedy has qualified to play at Villanova?  It is too early to tell, is it not?

[bma725]

I don't remember the public announcement that Green was no longer committed to MU before he went to prep school. Glad you have a better memory then I on this issue.

Even you know that there could be no public announcement because the school could not comment on a high school junior that wasn't even eligible to sign a LOI yet.  But it was known by Green, by MU, by Green's HS coaches and family, and by pretty much everyone on the boards at that time.

[brewcity77]

The more I think about this, the more it seems like it could be Newbill, but it could well be good for both Marquette and DJ. He's a three-star prospect, and in many ways seemed to come out of nowhere. He played in a smaller league, and it's entirely possible that if he had been in the highest level of Pennsylvania basketball, he would have still won state player of the year and been a top 100 recruit, but because of the lower division status, he wasn't as heavily recruited.

As Newbill is looking at his options, he sees that he can either try to break in with a mid-major like St. Joe's or Niagara, play a year at a junior college and improve his options but lose a year of eligibility, or go to prep school for a year and have a place saved for him at a high major. Any of the above could give him a shot at personal success, but playing four years at a high major, even if he has to sacrifice a year to do so, seems like a great way to contend for NCAA tourney success, and with enough focus through televised games to get the eye of NBA scouts (if he's good enough). It's not something we've seen commonly in the past, but I hardly find it to be a far-fetched notion.

[MarkCharles]

What I don't understand is, unless it is for academic reasons that they are going prep, is Newbill or Smith (making assumptions here) any better than someone Buzz could recruit as a Class of 2011 freshman?

To me, this is the biggest overlooked issue here. If its Reggie Smith going prep, then thats my perfect scenario, as it sounds like he has the skills and athleticism to be a great pg, but just needs to hone his game. If he goes prep, he should be a top100 guy next year easily. But if its Newbill, I think Buzz has shown he can easily recruits players rated above him. And if its Gardner, which seems less likely recently, then Buzz should have no problem getting a higher ranked guy. 

[Canadian Dimes]

Maybe.  It's basically the same as red-shirting for a year, but they still get to play in games.  People have given a few examples of similar situations at other schools, like Villanova.  Maybe they liked MU that much more than any of their other alternatives.

exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach.  Very similar to a red shirt.  For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.

Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year.  How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior.  Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here.  .

I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade. 

I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine.  maybe hards stands for hard headed.
 

[Hards Alumni]

exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach.  Very similar to a red shirt.  For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.

Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year.  How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior.  Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here.  .

I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade. 

I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine.  maybe hards stands for hard headed.
 

Sorry Hayward, I'm just a realist.  This isn't a movie.

What level headed kid would postpone his life/career for a year as a favor to a program?  Considering the % of NCAA players who actually make it to the pro's, if you are asked to go to prep school for a year to 'hone your game' you probably aren't NBA material anyway.

That said, I could be wrong, and that is why I said that the idea is FAR-FETCHED, and highly IMPROBABLE, not impossible.

Additionally, Hayward, you are probably the last person who should be calling people out for being hard headed.

[KipsBayEagle]

exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach.  Very similar to a red shirt.  For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.

Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year.  How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior.  Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here.  .

I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade.  

I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine.  maybe hards stands for hard headed.
  

I am sorry, but this is immoral.  If you offer a kid a scholarship and he accepts, and he is qualified and does we has to do, end of discussion.  he is coming.  You don't tell a kid to go to prep school because you have a better kid (and whose to say this gardener kid is any better) waiting in the wings.  "Hey, sweetie, I know i invited you to junior prom, but I just asked out this hotter girl and she accepted.  Why don't you go with steve urkel, than hit the gym, maybe the treadmill, do some ab work, and stand out in the sun and get a little tan.  Then when senior prom comes around, you will be a lock no questions asked."  Buzz may be upfront and honest about him wanting to go to prep school, but just because your honest doesn't make ir right.  (side note: this is all speculation, just as most of the last 20 or so posts on this thread have been )

[Litehouse]

I am sorry, but this is immoral.  If you offer a kid a scholarship and he accepts, and he is qualified and does we has to do, end of discussion.  he is coming.  You don't tell a kid to go to prep school because you have a better kid (and whose to say this gardener kid is any better) waiting in the wings.

How do you know Buzz offered him an unconditional scholarship?  There are conditional offers all the time (we won't accept your verbal until so-and-so makes his choice).  The only difference here is that they accepted the verbal and let the player sign a NLI, basically shifting around the order of things.

None of us really know what's going on, but if Buzz tells the player what the situation is up front, and the player still agrees, why is that so wrong?  The other option is probably just not offering the kid a scholarship.  But if the kid still wants to sign in that situation, why not let him?