"Big East may look into its own TV beast"

[ChicosBailBonds]

Without viable football progamming a BEN does not get very far.

Though I don't care for this Badger fan, he is absolutely right.

[GGGG]

Agreed, which is why the league needs to not only retain football schools, but needs to expand. I think that the Big East needs to get up to 12 football schools.

I would rather be in smaller, basketball only conference than in some 20+ team conference.

And anyway, just adding more football schools isn't guaranteed to add more eyeballs to the television sets.  The problem with the BE schools, and any of the prospective schools that they are mentioning, is that they just aren't very popular on a state-wide basis.  (With the exception of West Virginia and possibly UConn.)  I mean, what kind of numbers would Memphis bring in?  Nobody goes to their games now!  Central Florida...South Florida...East Carolina...

[Benny B]

Without viable football progamming a BEN does not get very far.

While I would like to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by "viable football programming," it's irrelevant.  If a BEN can work with football, it can work without football.  The BE has already carved out a niche in college basketball, and if it could take advantage of that, football programming would be a nice complement as opposed to a necessity.

Considering that there are more BE basketball games played just in prime time during the academic year than there are total BT football games, that's a real opportunity for the BE if it plays its cards right.  Further, a BEN wouldn't need to send the BTN's $22M (the legitimacy of which I still question) to its schools to be considered a success... even if the whole thing could break even, the exposure alone would be well worth the time and effort.

Regardless, my guess is that we'll never see a stand-alone BEN... however, I could envision an ESPN-4 or ESPN-BE on my cable line-up in the next few years.  (Getting closer to the Ocho.)

[GGGG]

While I would like to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by "viable football programming," it's irrelevant.  If a BEN can work with football, it can work without football.  The BE has already carved out a niche in college basketball, and if it could take advantage of that, football programming would be a nice complement as opposed to a necessity.

Considering that there are more BE basketball games played just in prime time during the academic year than there are total BT football games, that's a real opportunity for the BE if it plays its cards right.  Further, a BEN wouldn't need to send the BTN's $22M (the legitimacy of which I still question) to its schools to be considered a success... even if the whole thing could break even, the exposure alone would be well worth the time and effort.

Regardless, my guess is that we'll never see a stand-alone BEN... however, I could envision an ESPN-4 or ESPN-BE on my cable line-up in the next few years.  (Getting closer to the Ocho.)

Football is more popular than basketball.  It brings in bigger numbers...always will.  And I have no idea why you question $22M...it is pretty well documented.

[goodgreatgrand]

The BE has already carved out a niche in college basketball, and if it could take advantage of that, football programming would be a nice complement as opposed to a necessity.

There are a couple of asumptions here: 1) That a Big East Network can deliver revenue that is at least close to that of the B10.
2) If not, the most attractive BE fball schools will still stay and that money isnt a driving force to jump conferences.
3) That the BE still has a "nice niche" in basketball when trademark schools like Pitt, Syracuse and Rutgers (maybe UConn) leave.

Whiel a network sounds like a good idea, can one really be established and contracts sorted out by December (when the B10 plans to announce the exapansion schools)? I find this hard to believe. Plus, B10 revenue, while not 'guaranteed,' is far more 'established' than anything the BENetwork can promise in its first few years of existence.

[Benny B]

Football is more popular than basketball.  It brings in bigger numbers...always will.  And I have no idea why you question $22M...it is pretty well documented.

There's a difference between "pretty well documented" and "independently audited."  Any accountant will tell you that you can make the books say anything you want (see: Enron).  While I'm not suggesting fraud, I am suggesting that perhaps some expenses and liabilities have been moved around to make the numbers look better than they actually are.

In other words, $22M is great if it stands alone.  If it's paired with a $500M liability or it's offset by $20M in expenses that were allocated elsewhere, not so much.

[GGGG]

There's a difference between "pretty well documented" and "independently audited."  Any accountant will tell you that you can make the books say anything you want (see: Enron).  While I'm not suggesting fraud, I am suggesting that perhaps some expenses and liabilities have been moved around to make the numbers look better than they actually are.

In other words, $22M is great if it stands alone.  If it's paired with a $500M liability or it's offset by $20M in expenses that were allocated elsewhere, not so much.

How can television rights be offset with expenses?  I guess you can choose to believe what you want to believe...

[goodgreatgrand]

There's a difference between "pretty well documented" and "independently audited."  Any accountant will tell you that you can make the books say anything you want (see: Enron).  While I'm not suggesting fraud, I am suggesting that perhaps some expenses and liabilities have been moved around to make the numbers look better than they actually are.

In other words, $22M is great if it stands alone.  If it's paired with a $500M liability or it's offset by $20M in expenses that were allocated elsewhere, not so much.

OR:

The 7-8 MM fulltime BE members receive is geat if it stands alone. If it's offset by 5 MM in expenses, it doesnt look so great.

I find it hard to believe BE schools are anxious to jump to the B10 just so they can lose millions of dollars....or generate a very small percentage more at the cost of leaving their rivalries and alienating their fan base.

[Benny B]

How can television rights be offset with expenses?  I guess you can choose to believe what you want to believe...

The BTN is owned by the Big Ten and Fox.  Do you think Fox is paying all the bills while the Big Ten simply collects profits?  Further, this isn't some UHF station that someone won in a poker bet... who do you think put up the money to get the BTN going?

Murdoch isn't an idiot... I'm sure the Big Ten has plenty at risk that isn't being properly reflected in the "$22M a year" figure.

[GGGG]

The BTN is owned by the Big Ten and Fox.  Do you think Fox is paying all the bills while the Big Ten simply collects profits?  Further, this isn't some UHF station that someone won in a poker bet... who do you think put up the money to get the BTN going?

Murdoch isn't an idiot... I'm sure the Big Ten has plenty at risk that isn't being properly reflected in the "$22M a year" figure.

This has been addressed multiple times.  The BTN is a legally seperate entity that generates a portion of the conference's television rights fees.  Those fees are transferred from the BTN to the conference, and from the conference to its individual institutions. 

The $22 M figure includes these transfers out of the BTN.  (As well as the rights that ABC/ESPN pay the conference.)  This is not a revenue figure...but a dividend (or some such).

[Benny B]

This has been addressed multiple times.  The BTN is a legally seperate entity that generates a portion of the conference's television rights fees.  Those fees are transferred from the BTN to the conference, and from the conference to its individual institutions. 

The $22 M figure includes these transfers out of the BTN.  (As well as the rights that ABC/ESPN pay the conference.)  This is not a revenue figure...but a dividend (or some such).

Listen, I'm not trying to turn this into a Sultan vs. Benny bi***fest, but I haven't seen any independent, third-party reports of BTN profits/dividends/etc.  Everything I've seen originates from the same three sources: the Big Ten, the schools, or the Big Ten Network, and those three entities all have an interest in seeing the BTN numbers spun as high as they can go.

It's a lesson I've taken from the financial and investment markets... publicly reported numbers from an interested party aren't always what they appear to be.

[goodgreatgrand]

Wow, such bickering. The $22M was first reported by ESPN Behind the Lines. It stated that the B10's total revenue was $242M. From there, people performed simple division and yelled out "$22M per school!" That number has caught on for some reason. However, the $242 should be divided by 12, not 11 (the conference itself (front office) gets the same amount a school gets). So, based on espn's reporting, it's more like $20.2M

[GOO]

The big east may not touch the B10 network in dollar terms, but anything that can generate more revenue is a plus.  In addition, get the gap down and make it harder for teams to leave, especially two years from now to another conference such as the ACC.  And make it more feasible for the BE to pull in a quality team or two in a couple of years, with the revenue from a network or ESPN-BE network.  It makes sense to try, even if the numbers are 1/3 of the Big 10's.  It may help a team say no to the ACC or SEC in a couple of years.