First bullet dodged

[Golden Avalanche]

Coach K is already 63.   I guess no AD should hire him over Buzz either.  

K and Ryan aren't even in the same discussion. Ever.

[Lennys Tap]

Coach K is already 63.   I guess no AD should hire him over Buzz either.  

Coach K was a lock hall of famer before Ryan even coached a D1 game. Where have all these  ADs who covet Bo been all his life? He didn't get a D1 gig til he was in his 50's and has never coached a game outside the state of Wisconsin. To think a guy with this resume and age is suddenly in demand among D1 ADs is nonsense.

[GGGG]

Coach K was a lock hall of famer before Ryan even coached a D1 game. Where have all these  ADs who covet Bo been all his life? He didn't get a D1 gig til he was in his 50's and has never coached a game outside the state of Wisconsin. To think a guy with this resume and age is suddenly in demand among D1 ADs is nonsense.

Stop shifting the goalposts.  I never said that Bo was as good as Coach K.  I was simply saying that your argument that Bo wouldn't be in demand because of his age was...well...dumb. 

[GGGG]

K and Ryan aren't even in the same discussion. Ever.

Especially when you take it out of context.

[Lennys Tap]

Stop shifting the goalposts.  I never said that Bo was as good as Coach K.  I was simply saying that your argument that Bo wouldn't be in demand because of his age was...well...dumb. 

And to say that a 62 year old coach who didn't get a sniff from an AD until he was in his 50's, has never had a gig outside of the state of Wisconsin and whose recruiting contacts are regional at best would be the choice of AD's over a young, quality coach who is full of energy and has already proven to be an outstanding national recruiter is...well...dumb.

[GGGG]

And to say that a 62 year old coach who didn't get a sniff from an AD until he was in his 50's, has never had a gig outside of the state of Wisconsin and whose recruiting contacts are regional at best would be the choice of AD's over a young, quality coach who is full of energy and has already proven to be an outstanding national recruiter is...well...dumb.

Bo Ryan got many sniffs from ADs outside of Wisconsin early on when he was at Platteville and later on at Milwaukee.  He didn't want to leave Wisconsin and made that clear from the beginning.  In fact, I remember regular stories linking him with lower level D1 programs almost every year, and the only reason he took UWM is because it was in the state.  Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, there have been a number of 60+ yo guys hired at BCS programs.  Knight at Texas Tech, Bennett at Washington State, Montgomery at Cal.  Hell, Oregon was hot after Tubby Smith and he's 59.  At the non-BCS level, Rick Majerus and Tom Davis were both 60+ when hired at their last gigs.

And as for recruiting contacts, MU hired a guy two years ago whose primary contacts are in Texas.  Gimme a break.

[Lennys Tap]

Bo Ryan got many sniffs from ADs outside of Wisconsin early on when he was at Platteville and later on at Milwaukee.  He didn't want to leave Wisconsin and made that clear from the beginning.  In fact, I remember regular stories linking him with lower level D1 programs almost every year, and the only reason he took UWM is because it was in the state.  Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, there have been a number of 60+ yo guys hired at BCS programs.  Knight at Texas Tech, Bennett at Washington State, Montgomery at Cal.  Hell, Oregon was hot after Tubby Smith and he's 59.  At the non-BCS level, Rick Majerus and Tom Davis were both 60+ when hired at their last gigs.

And as for recruiting contacts, MU hired a guy two years ago whose primary contacts are in Texas.  Gimme a break.

Bo Ryan was at UW-Platteville for 15 years before landing a D1 job at then low/mid major UWM. If the D1 BCS AD's were sniffin' around I guess they didn't like the way things smelled.

Bob Knight (60), Mike Montgomery (61) and Dick Bennett (59) were all younger than Bo is now when they took their most recent jobs. Each took a significant drop in prestige from their most recent coaching job to go back to work (Indiana to Texas Tech, the NBA to Cal and Wisconsin to Washington State). So could Bo land a D1 job if he had a falling out with the folks at UW? Probably, if he's willing to take a drop in class (ala Knight, Montgomery, Bennett and Tubby  when he got canned by Kentucky). But is he a hot commodity (who will only get hotter) like Buzz? No freakin' way.

Bo Ryan is a very capable coach, but to AD's looking to build or sustain a program he's yesterday's newspaper.

[Hards Alumni]

Bo Ryan was at UW-Platteville for 15 years before landing a D1 job at then low/mid major UWM. If the D1 BCS AD's were sniffin' around I guess they didn't like the way things smelled.

Bob Knight (60), Mike Montgomery (61) and Dick Bennett (59) were all younger than Bo is now when they took their most recent jobs. Each took a significant drop in prestige from their most recent coaching job to go back to work (Indiana to Texas Tech, the NBA to Cal and Wisconsin to Washington State). So could Bo land a D1 job if he had a falling out with the folks at UW? Probably, if he's willing to take a drop in class (ala Knight, Montgomery, Bennett and Tubby  when he got canned by Kentucky). But is he a hot commodity (who will only get hotter) like Buzz? No freakin' way.

Bo Ryan is a very capable coach, but to AD's looking to build or sustain a program he's yesterday's newspaper.

completely disagree.

[Marquette84]

IU fell off that list (appropriately) on April Fools Day, 2008.

I know you dislike Crean and all, but if you're going to make the claim that IU doesn't belong on the list, you'd at least show SOME basketball intelligence if you used the day they fired Bob Knight.

[Dawson Rental]

I know you dislike Crean and all, but if you're going to make the claim that IU doesn't belong on the list, you'd at least show SOME basketball intelligence if you used the day they fired Bob Knight.

I can't agree with you on this one.  If Indiana fell off the list of "destination" programs when Knight left then how did they get Sampson away from Oklahoma where he was doing quite well?  If IU wasn't still on the list prior to 4/01/08 why would Crean have taken it?  IU is still and for some time will be in the top five programs for number of weeks listed in the AP top 25.  The fan support won't dissipate that quickly, nor will IU's rep among Indiana's HS basketball coaches, although the program may have an occasional bump in the road over a particular coach.

[Dawson Rental]

First blank dodged.  Two more years of success for Buzz and the rumors will be real and frequent.

Buzz just had one fantastic year on the heels of a good solid year.  Last year was not as impressive because he still had the three amigos AND Lazar.  So now he has three years of head coaching experience at two different schools.  One of which he left after one year and was sued for leaving.  (BTW, I am not in any way suggesting Buzz was wrong to leave Loyola NO, I'm just pointing out how his resume looks at this point in time.)  Right now he would be attractive to any schools who would also be looking at top assistants at top programs.  Next year, if he wins the BE regular season or tourney or gets to the final 16 in the NCAA, he'll be the subject of REAL interest, not just rumors.  If he doesn't accomplish that next year then two more years like the last two will get him there too.  At that point no more rumors, he WILL be at the top of every AD's list.

[GGGG]

Bo Ryan was at UW-Platteville for 15 years before landing a D1 job at then low/mid major UWM. If the D1 BCS AD's were sniffin' around I guess they didn't like the way things smelled.

Bo Ryan is a very capable coach, but to AD's looking to build or sustain a program he's yesterday's newspaper.

Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree on the last point.

However, I am going to simply say that it is factually untrue that Bo didn't have opportunities to leave Platteville prior to going to UWM.  He had very personal reasons for wanting to stay in the UW System, and the salaries offered at the time by the low majors made it not worth leaving where he was.  In fact, he almost didn't take the UWM job.

You are just going to have to trust me on this one.

[Lennys Tap]

Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree on the last point.

However, I am going to simply say that it is factually untrue that Bo didn't have opportunities to leave Platteville prior to going to UWM.  He had very personal reasons for wanting to stay in the UW System, and the salaries offered at the time by the low majors made it not worth leaving where he was.  In fact, he almost didn't take the UWM job.

You are just going to have to trust me on this one.

You are an avid Marquette fan AND the Sultan of South Wayne. Of course I trust you.

[Marquette84]

I can't agree with you on this one.  If Indiana fell off the list of "destination" programs when Knight left then how did they get Sampson away from Oklahoma where he was doing quite well?  If IU wasn't still on the list prior to 4/01/08 why would Crean have taken it?  IU is still and for some time will be in the top five programs for number of weeks listed in the AP top 25.  The fan support won't dissipate that quickly, nor will IU's rep among Indiana's HS basketball coaches, although the program may have an occasional bump in the road over a particular coach.

Sounds like you're disagreeing with Lenny--he's the one that said IU is no longer an elite program.

I'm just saying that if one claims IU has slipped (as Lenny does), then the triggering event occurred long before 4/1/08. 

He might not like Crean, but to say Crean caused the decline of IU from elite status is simply his bias showing through. 

[Dawson Rental]

Sounds like you're disagreeing with Lenny--he's the one that said IU is no longer an elite program.

I'm just saying that if one claims IU has slipped (as Lenny does), then the triggering event occurred long before 4/1/08.  

He might not like Crean, but to say Crean caused the decline of IU from elite status is simply his bias showing through.  

I guess that to clarify my view, I believe that Indiana has been and - due to its extremely strong history - is likely to remain an elite program.  Even elite programs cycle through down times, as I believe Indiana is now doing.  I would put the timing of the current down cycle prior to 4/01/08, but just prior, like a month or so before when Sampson got the axe.  The responsibility for Indiana's current woes sits squarely with Kelvin Sampson.  If he could have confined himself to following the contact rules, he wouldn't have been banished to the NBA by the NCAA for five years or whatever, and Indiana wouldn't have had to hire a new coach while the team disintegrated.  The couple of players Crean dropped from the team had to be dropped for disciplinary reasons, and they were questionable players for Sampson to have recruited to Indiana for that reason.  So, I'm saying that Crean (gladly) walked into a mess that he wasn't responsible for.

That being said, Crean will ultimately be judged on how well he did (or didn't) reverse the trend to bring Indiana back to prominence.   As he said: "It's Indiana", so he can't deny that the task should be doable.  At this point, I think that the results have been mixed, but the most current indicators aren't encouraging.  If Crean's recruiting for 2011 an 2012 doesn't rally soon, his chances for staying on, particularly at his salary won't be good.

For the real fall guys in Indiana's recent decline, I really think that you have to look to the administration.  Knight was so successful that they let his boorish behavior go unchecked until it reached a point where the Indiana administration no longer had any realistic chance to rein it in, and so they had to let him go.  Then the decision to hire Sampson (yes, I know that Sampson wasn't hired immediately after Knight) who was on the run from a mess he had just made at Oklahoma was just asking for trouble, and they got it.

It sucks to be an Indiana fan right now, just not as bad as it sucked to be a MU fan during the Dukiet regime.