Recruiting

[willie warrior]

A majority of teams in the Big East are drawing McDonald AA's.  Problem is, it's nearly impossible to draw that kind of talent to Milwaukee, WI, and to make things more difficult, the midwest doesn't produce very many and when they do they're recruited hard by the best programs in the country.  Recruiting is a tough business.

This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannopt recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.

[GGGG]

Sultan - please explain why Chicago isn't what it used to be ?

It is my impression that the %-age of top talent isn't from Chicago like it was a generation or more ago.  I'm not saying its bad, just that the talent is more wide-spread.

There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search.  Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.

I guess I could go back and look at the top 100 for the last 20 years or so, but I don't have the time for that right now.

[MU83]

This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannot recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.

....and like it or not, we are not viewed nationally as being on the same level as UConn or Syracuse.  I understand that we don't like it or don't want to admit it, or we want to rationalize that Milwaukee is nicer than Syracuse, but until we're viewed as an elite program, we are not consistently going to get the same talent-level kids. 

Buzz and his staff will have to work doubly hard to land top talent, and even then, we won't have the depth of the elites.  We can be a final four team again, but we will not be a final four contender every year unless we do something unethical.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannopt recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.

The difference is that in Syracuse, NY they have a Hall of Fame coach.  Same for at UCONN.

When you're a talented big and you have a few years to put your skills in the spotlight to try and win the lottery and make the NBA, more than likely you're going to go and play for someone that has the history of putting that type of player into the NBA.

It becomes a cycle that's tough to break.  MU needs to get one guy that they can get to attend and put into the NBA, but I don't blame these kids for wanting to attend a school with a coach that has a long track record of doing that.  I don't think it has anything to do with Milwaukee vs Syracuse or Storrs.

[bma725]

It is my impression that the %-age of top talent isn't from Chicago like it was a generation or more ago.  I'm not saying its bad, just that the talent is more wide-spread.

There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search.  Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.

I guess I could go back and look at the top 100 for the last 20 years or so, but I don't have the time for that right now.

You don't need to do that, all those tabulations have already been done by the staff of statsheet.com:

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/recruits_by_state

Illinois, despite perhaps not being what it once was, is still 4th in terms of the # of Top 100 kids produced since 1998.  Of course that's counting the whole state, not just the Chicago area, but out of the 62 Top 100 players in the last decade and change only 7 of them aren't from Chicago.

[The Pickle]

The difference is that in Syracuse, NY they have a Hall of Fame coach.  Same for at UCONN.

When you're a talented big and you have a few years to put your skills in the spotlight to try and win the lottery and make the NBA, more than likely you're going to go and play for someone that has the history of putting that type of player into the NBA.

I know he wasn't a "big" but Wade didn't need a HOF coach to make it. In fact, he had a really sh!tty coach and STILL made it.  Shaq (LSU - Dale Brown), Tim Duncan (Wake Forest - Skip Prosser), Chris Bosh (Georgia Tech - Paul Hewitt), Yao (China), Dwight Howard (no college):  These are some of the most elite big men in the NBA and I wouldn't say any of their college coaches are "known" for producing NBA big men.  I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players?  They are pretty hard to come by...

[GOMU1104]

I know he wasn't a "big" but Wade didn't need a HOF coach to make it. In fact, he had a really sh!tty coach and STILL made it.  Shaq (LSU - Dale Brown), Tim Duncan (Wake Forest - Skip Prosser), Chris Bosh (Georgia Tech - Paul Hewitt), Yao (China), Dwight Howard (no college):  These are some of the most elite big men in the NBA and I wouldn't say any of their college coaches are "known" for producing NBA big men.  I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players?  They are pretty hard to come by...

It was actually Dave Odom that coached Tim Duncan @ Wake.

[bma725]

I think you need to look deeper into those guys histories before you can say they weren't known for producing NBA caliber big men.

Dale Brown was known for getting big men to the NBA, that's part of the reason Shaq ended up going there.  Brown had a run where 4 of his 5 starting centers were first round picks in the NBA, John Williams, Stanley Roberts, Shaq, and Geert Hammink.

Same thing for Dave Odom(he's the one that coached Duncan, not Prosser).  Darius Songaila made it to the NBA, Loren Woods made the NBA, Rodney Rodgers made the NBA, Duncan made the NBA.

Hewitt, since he's been there has put Bosh and Luke Schenscher into the NBA, and after this year he'll likely have Favors and Gani Lawal as well.

[The Pickle]

It was actually Dave Odom that coached Tim Duncan @ Wake.

No sh!t?  You are right.  Thanks.

[The Pickle]

I think you need to look deeper into those guys histories before you can say they weren't known for producing NBA caliber big men.

Dale Brown was known for getting big men to the NBA, that's part of the reason Shaq ended up going there.  Brown had a run where 4 of his 5 starting centers were first round picks in the NBA, John Williams, Stanley Roberts, Shaq, and Geert Hammink.

Same thing for Dave Odom(he's the one that coached Duncan, not Prosser).  Darius Songaila made it to the NBA, Loren Woods made the NBA, Rodney Rodgers made the NBA, Duncan made the NBA.

Hewitt, since he's been there has put Bosh and Luke Schenscher into the NBA, and after this year he'll likely have Favors and Gani Lawal as well.

Do you think all those guys made it because of the college coach's coaching or the coach's ability to recruit guys who had immense talent?

[Blackhat]

Replace Benford with Ernie Kent.  


We have no bigs for Benford to coach anyway.

[Mu92]

Syracuse has no mcdonalds all Americans this year.

[goodgreatgrand]

I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players?  They are pretty hard to come by...

How about Calhoun? Sure, some of his bigs were already solid players coming into college but not all of them. Thabeet sucked his first two years. Calhoun has had a nice run (Okafor, Boone, Thabeet, Oriakhi).

And I just learned that Boeheim has an assistant coach (Bernie Fine) that has been with him for over 30 years. His job is to develop the low post players (Seikely, Coleman, Wallace, Warrick, Etan Thomas, Onuaku, Rick Jackson, and Feb Melo (next year). So, there's two examples in the BE alone.

[buckchuckler]

There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search.  Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.

Well, right off the top of my head, Sharron Collins, Jacob Pullen, Evan Turner, John Scheyer, Demetry McCamey, Will Walker, John Shurna.  I'm sure there are more as well.

That doesn't seem like it would be a bad team, probably too short for everyone on this board, but I'd take it.

[goodgreatgrand]

Well, right off the top of my head, Sharron Collins, Jacob Pullen, Evan Turner, John Scheyer, Demetry McCamey, Will Walker, John Shurna.  I'm sure there are more as well.

That doesn't seem like it would be a bad team, probably too short for everyone on this board, but I'd take it.

Dont forget Derrick Rose.

[Maryland Warrior]

 
Billy Shakesphere pondered  on his blog  awhile back "A bag full of MacDonald All Americans does not always a Happy Meal make" Examples: UConn and North Carolina
My sense of Buzz after 2 years is he thrives on players who need to prove something because he's the type of guy who can show them how to do just that.
But,defiantly, they got to get bigger

[Marquette65]

Collins is the only one on that list from a Chicago Public School.  The big problem there. like MPS, is that the kids can't qualify for a D-1 Scholarship.

[buckchuckler]

Sorry, I didn't know that suburbs and private schools don't count

But when people talk about "recruiting Chicago" do they mean Chicago Public Schools, or the Chicago Area?

Seems pretty weak.

[bma725]

Replace Benford with Ernie Kent.   


We have no bigs for Benford to coach anyway.

Let me guess, you think Kent would do a better job of recruiting Chicago.  You do realize that his recruiting of that area is almost solely because of a connection to Worldwide Wes that no longer exists once he's out of the job at Oregon, right?  Those high profile kids are still going to go to Oregon because it's Phil Knight's baby, and Wes needs Phil to be happy.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

We're not getting the AA's,  but we are getting TALENT.  With time I think Buzz will bring in the most acclaimed guys since Al,  but the most important thing is bringing in impact players and Buzz is doing it.  The fact remains that we aren't a program that will bring in the absolute best......that's where crackerjack scouting comes in......who else was in on Jimmy and DJO???  EVERY team in the country could use them.

[DCWarriors04]

AA's don't equal success all the time, just look at North Carolina this year. Stock full of AA kids and yet their biggest problem is they can't play together. Buzz does a good job getting players that work in his system.

[GGGG]

AA's don't equal success all the time, just look at North Carolina this year. Stock full of AA kids and yet their biggest problem is they can't play together. Buzz does a good job getting players that work in his system.

I'd rather have AAs than not have them. 

[The Pickle]

I'd rather have AAs than not have them. 

Even if their being at Marquette doesn't equate to more wins?  I bet that's what all the NC fans are saying this year.  Hey, we may only be 16-16 but at least we have 8 All Americans. 

I want high character, talented players who are willing to work hard.  If they have the talent (i.e. all americans) but don't have character, are not willing to buy into the system, or are only out for themselves, let them go somewhere else.  They are not college basketball players, but look at guys like Milton Bradley and Terrell Owens, all the talent in the world but absolute cancers to their teams.

Would I like all americans?  Yes.  But only if they are high character and fit the system.  I'm off my soap box...