Barro/Burke Lesson

[HoopsMalone]

This topic has been indirectly discussed on the board, but on an off week, I have been thinking about it.

Having Burke this year and Barro last year would have been significant.  This year, we just need another body and Burke would have been nice to at least throw out there, but Barro had turned into such a solid role player that maybe we win a game or two more like Tennessee, Syracuse at home, Nova at the Garden, or Mizzou.  Probably beat USF with his added contribution.  He was athletic enough to run with any of those teams and be the difference on a rebound or putback that changes the game.

The question is what should have been done when these guys were young. Barro came in with Marcus Jackson and Chris Grimm ahead of him so there was time available, but he was so raw that I don't know if it was worth playing him.  Burke came in with Barro, Grimm, Kinsella, and Lott ahead of him.  There was no real reason to use a year of his eligibility.  A forced redshirt might have been a recruiting deterrant, but would have been best for MU.

Does Buzz use this lesson and redshirt Mboa?  Even if Mbao would play ten mins next year, is it a better long term solution for the program to redshirt him?  Maybe you just let Fulce have his minutes as a senior and save Mbao.

[NavinRJohnson]

The question is what should have been done when these guys were young.

The coach should have been recruiting their replacements.

[HoopsMalone]

The coach should have been recruiting their replacements.

That's a good point.  Mbakwe and Liam might have fixed the concern.  Nevertheless, neither of them did much in their Frosh year so maybe you let them develop.

[bilsu]

It is hard to project what is going to happen. Certainly a fifth year out of Barro and Burke would have been more valuable than what they gave us as freshmen. You could have argue that Otule should have been red shirted as a freshmen, but now with his injury he is being red shirted anyways. That being the case the a red shirt last year would have been wasted. You also run the risk of red shirting a player that never gets better. The other end of the spectrum with a bigman is that he improves so quickly he goes pro early. That is the problem I would have in red shirting Mbao. He has height and agility. Who knows what he would be like if he gained 50 lbs of muscle. You could redshirt him next year and he improves so much that he leaves before his fifth year. My gut feeling is red shirting Mbao next year would be better in the long run, but if does not improve or improves too much it would end up being a mistake.

[tower912]

If Liam had stayed healthy, we never would have been having this conversation.   He would have been starting at the 5 (this is based on Buzz' statements from October 08 as well as the players statements from February and March 09).    Otule would have been backing him up and likely Mbao would have been red-shirting, at least until Chris got hurt.     I actually admire the way Bo does it at Wiscy, as he red-shirts, gives some his recruits time to develop before running them out there as Juniors and Seniors.   I have absolutely no problem with Buzz or any coach taking a 7 footer with the intent of them being a project who may not contribute for 2-3 years, with one of them as a red-shirt.    Those are the ones you take flyers on, not 6'8 beanpoles whose only claim to fame is that he is the classmate of the JUCO you lost out on.    Hopefully, Buzz can get to that point with his recruiting.

[wadesworld]

Those are the ones you take flyers on, not 6'8 beanpoles whose only claim to fame is that he is the classmate of the JUCO you lost out on.

Jimmy Butler has been a mistake?  The only difference between him and this depiction is that we actually got the classmate as well (Fulce).

[TJ]

It is hard to project what is going to happen. Certainly a fifth year out of Barro and Burke would have been more valuable than what they gave us as freshmen. You could have argue that Otule should have been red shirted as a freshmen, but now with his injury he is being red shirted anyways. That being the case the a red shirt last year would have been wasted. You also run the risk of red shirting a player that never gets better. The other end of the spectrum with a bigman is that he improves so quickly he goes pro early. That is the problem I would have in red shirting Mbao. He has height and agility. Who knows what he would be like if he gained 50 lbs of muscle. You could redshirt him next year and he improves so much that he leaves before his fifth year. My gut feeling is red shirting Mbao next year would be better in the long run, but if does not improve or improves too much it would end up being a mistake.

Having Mbao redshirt next year and improve so much that he only plays 1 more year and then enters the draft - that's a "problem" that I would really like to have.

[bma725]

Jimmy Butler has been a mistake?  The only difference between him and this depiction is that we actually got the classmate as well (Fulce).

He's talking about Blackledge, not Butler.

We got Blackledge when we lost out on Lance Stemler who ended up at IU.

[HoopsMalone]

Having Mboa redshirt next year and improve so much that he only plays 1 more year and then enters the draft - that's a "problem" that I would really like to have.

+1

[wadesworld]

He's talking about Blackledge, not Butler.

We got Blackledge when we lost out on Lance Stemler who ended up at IU.

Yeah I know he was, but still I'm just pointing out that there are cases where that has worked out.

[Skatastrophy]

Having Mboa redshirt next year and improve so much that he only plays 1 more year and then enters the draft - that's a "problem" that I would really like to have.

A lot of people have been typing Mbao as "Mboa."  We need an auto-correct on the forum :p

[MR.HAYWARD]

it all entirely depends on who Buzz signs with the final 2 scholies.  If they are both bigs that are ready to contribute next year maybe you do redshirt MBAo.  

The whole issue of redshirting a guy is based on the fact that you actually have someone to play in place of them.  Thsi year even in a limited role we absolutely need MBao.  When BArro and Burke were Freshman we absolutely needed them.  Due to the absolute lack of bigs.  If Buzz can get to the poit of having 5 guys 6'9" or bigger then redshirting becomes an option but not before and not until.  

[Nukem2]

it all entirely depends on who Buzz signs with the final 2 scholies.  If they are both bigs that are ready to contribute next year maybe you do redshirt MBAo.  

The whole issue of redshirting a guy is based on the fact that you actually have someone to play in place of them.  Thsi year even in a limited role we absolutely need MBao.  When BArro and Burke were Freshman we absolutely needed them.  Due to the absolute lack of bigs.  If Buzz can get to the poit of having 5 guys 6'9" or bigger then redshirting becomes an option but not before and not until.  

Actually, MU really did NOT need Burke as a frosh.

[Hards Alumni]

A lot of people have been typing Mbao as "Mboa."  We need an auto-correct on the forum :p

I was going to say the same thing... Its 4 letters, get it right.

[HoopsMalone]

 When BArro and Burke were Freshman we absolutely needed them.  Due to the absolute lack of bigs.  

Barro maybe.  Barro came in with Marcus Jasckson established in the rotation and Grimm already there.  Kinsella and Amoroso came with Barro, leaving 5 guys inside.  Crean could have considered Novak and Townsend as able to play the 4 and redshirted Barro.  Who knows.


Burke came in with Grimm, Kinsella, Barro, Lott, and Amoroso all there and ready to play ahead of him.  Novak started at the 4 and played a ton of minutes.  He could easily have been redshirted.

[NotAnAlum]

I'm definitely in favor of red shirting big men because size and strength are such a big factor in their success and age has so much to do with both.  Assuming Otule gets a medical red shirt this year both he and Mbao will enter next year as sophs.  It doesn't make much sense to have them both leave the program the same year.  No decent center is going to come to MU and play 2 or 3 years behind TWO centers.  However given Otule's injury history I'd be tempted to have both play their Soph year.  Then if Otule has proved durable through next year you red shirt Mbao between his Soph and Junior year.  In that way you have a chance at bringing it another center, red shirt him and then have him backup Mbao for his final (5th) year.  If during their Soph seasons Mbao turns out to be a solid BE center (which I doubt) then you forget the red shirt and try to make your run while you have him.

[Nukem2]

I'm definitely in favor of red shirting big men because size and strength are such a big factor in their success and age has so much to do with both.  Assuming Otule gets a medical red shirt this year both he and Mbao will enter next year as sophs.  It doesn't make much sense to have them both leave the program the same year.  No decent center is going to come to MU and play 2 or 3 years behind TWO centers.  However given Otule's injury history I'd be tempted to have both play their Soph year.  Then if Otule has proved durable through next year you red shirt Mbao between his Soph and Junior year.  In that way you have a chance at bringing it another center, red shirt him and then have him backup Mbao for his final (5th) year.  If during their Soph seasons Mbao turns out to be a solid BE center (which I doubt) then you forget the red shirt and try to make your run while you have him.

If Buzz can get a couple decent "bigss"  (arguably longer 4's), I would definitely favor redshirting Yous next year to get he and Otule in different graduating classes.

[MarqBB77-03]

I think it is unrealistic to think that Mbao can put on 50 pounds during his career at MU and be effective.  It is to much weight given his frame.

I also think it is unrealistic to think we can get to bigs that will contribute immediately next year.  Where are they going to come from?

[bilsu]

Burke was listed at 6'8" 245. 50lbs would make Mbao 7'2" 265. Tough but not impossible. If McMorrow was healthy, we would not have Mbao, because he was given McMorrow's scholarship.

[tower912]

We settled for Blackledge.  Buzz WANTED Butler. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Barro maybe.  Barro came in with Marcus Jasckson established in the rotation and Grimm already there.  Kinsella and Amoroso came with Barro, leaving 5 guys inside.  Crean could have considered Novak and Townsend as able to play the 4 and redshirted Barro.  Who knows.


Burke came in with Grimm, Kinsella, Barro, Lott, and Amoroso all there and ready to play ahead of him.  Novak started at the 4 and played a ton of minutes.  He could easily have been redshirted.

hard to believe that I4 actually had a whole recruiting class of bigs at one point.

[77ncaachamps]

I think it is unrealistic to think that Mbao can put on 50 pounds during his career at MU and be effective.  It is to much weight given his frame.

In the land of dairy and beer?
The home of the brats and cheese curds?
Between butter burgers and frozen custard, I will be AMAZED if MU can't put 50 on that frame!

EDIT: I'd say the player that might have had the most impact in the front court IF he was eligible/allowed to play for MU would be Damian Saunders.

Check out his line tonight...man....
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=201001130174

[MU B2002]

EDIT: I'd say the player that might have had the most impact in the front court IF he was eligible/allowed to play for MU would be Damian Saunders.

Check out his line tonight...man....
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=201001130174

Yea, I did notice his two worst games this season are against Pitt and WVU (2/3 games with single digit boards), so he obviously can't play against BEAST competition.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

[mileskishnish72]

If they just got excited about Mbao scoring his first basket in practice (in January, no less), it doesn't really seem likely we'd need to worry about him going pro before his 5th year.