Interesting dots to connect

[tower912]

It has been widely discussed that our team looked gassed toward the end of the FSU game.    On Buzz' radio show, he said that EWill had his best practice of the year on Sunday.   So a question for those who have a little more access.....   how common are gameday practices and how intense are they?    To my ears, hearing that EWill had a really good practice indicated it was fairly intense.    If so, and if this is not all that common, it could explain the fatigue.   However, if gameday practice is common, maybe it was just FSU after all.   

[4everwarriors]

That begs the question:

Why, then, didn't he leave the pines during the game?

[nyg]

That begs the question:

Why, then, didn't he leave the pines during the game?

Excellent question, why????  Best practice of year and sits, with an 8 man gassed rotation with 2 guards under 6ft, up against a bigger team. You have to wonder if its something else then because Buzz is contridicting himself now, with his you practice well, you play thing. 

[bma725]

Excellent question, why????  Best practice of year and sits, with an 8 man gassed rotation with 2 guards under 6ft, up against a bigger team. You have to wonder if its something else then because Buzz is contridicting himself now, with his you practice well, you play thing. 

Not at all.  Everyone is assuming because Buzz said he had his best practice that he finally had figured out the things he was missing before.  That's a rather large leap to make.  When Buzz says EW had his best practice of the year, that's all relative to how he'd been earlier in the year.  Given how poor he'd been before, he could still have his best practice of the year by quite a bit and it not be near good enough to earn him playing time.

Also, if you listen to the whole interview, Buzz talked about why he didn't play him in the FSU game.

It has been widely discussed that our team looked gassed toward the end of the FSU game.    On Buzz' radio show, he said that EWill had his best practice of the year on Sunday.   So a question for those who have a little more access.....   how common are gameday practices and how intense are they?    To my ears, hearing that EWill had a really good practice indicated it was fairly intense.    If so, and if this is not all that common, it could explain the fatigue.   However, if gameday practice is common, maybe it was just FSU after all.   

There's always some sort of practice before the game, but intensity depends on all sorts of factors...what time the game is being played, whether they had to travel beforehand, whether it's a school day etc.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That begs the question:

Why, then, didn't he leave the pines during the game?

EWill was actually up a couple of times during the game to sub in.  The game situation changed (match-ups, flow and spread) and Buzz never put him in.  Buzz stayed with the rotation that he felt had the best chance to win it.  We can argue if that was the right move or not, but putting EWill in when the game tightened for his first national TV appearance, can also be debated.  Clearly, Buzz needs to go deeper into his bench upcoming.  Last year at this time he had Hazel on the backline sub rotation (JB developed later), this year Fulce, JMay, EWill, and Yous. 

[nyg]

Not at all.  Everyone is assuming because Buzz said he had his best practice that he finally had figured out the things he was missing before.  That's a rather large leap to make.  When Buzz says EW had his best practice of the year, that's all relative to how he'd been earlier in the year.  Given how poor he'd been before, he could still have his best practice of the year by quite a bit and it not be near good enough to earn him playing time.

Also, if you listen to the whole interview, Buzz talked about why he didn't play him in the FSU game.

There's always some sort of practice before the game, but intensity depends on all sorts of factors...what time the game is being played, whether they had to travel beforehand, whether it's a school day etc.

OK, but myself and I presume others are probably just getting frustrated at having this athletic, highly ranked 6ft 8in kid sitting on the bench and getting not a minute of playing time. This practice well and play thing is confusing, just put him in the game and see how he does.  He can't be THAT bad. Buzz is coach, and he and his staff know, but how terrible could have EWill's practices been in order to be in the situation he is in now. Ewill is the next to last on bench and I would just like to see how he can do.  Heck, he didn't even see the floor in some of the early blowout games. But Buzz is not going to put him in for our sake, in order that we can determine how he played in a game situation.  

[NavinRJohnson]

One does kind of have to wonder when you see Maymon playing in every game (16 Min avg), and playing as poorly as he has. Obviously his situation is a bit more out of necessity given the lack of inside players we have, but just how bad does Williams have to be in practice that he can't find the floor? Figure the fact that Butler, Buycks, and DJO are gonna be out there the majority of the time is obviously a contributing factor, but still...not one minute? I guess we just need to assume he really has no idea what he's doing out there and hope he can figure it out. Not that it means anything, but he was a Top 50-ish guy, no?

[bma725]

I don't know that I'd call EW athletic, but I understand your point.

What people have to remember is that every year there are highly ranked kids who aren't ready to play at the collegiate level and rarely get off the bench as freshman.  Look at last year's class for example...and this is only a few of them.

#25 J'Mison Morgan at UCLA only played in only 21 games, never got more than 13 minutes in a game
#37 Ty Walker at Wake Forest only played in 11 games, never more than 5 minutes
#65 Catalin Baicu at Clemson only played in 9 games, never more than 9 minutes
#66 Olek Czyz at Duke only played in 13 games, never more than 9 minutes
#69 Scott Suggs at Washington only played in 17 games, never more than 14 minutes

Every coach makes decisions on whether or not their newcomers are ready to play based upon how they practice.  That's the way it always works.

[bma725]

One does kind of have to wonder when you see Maymon playing in every game (16 Min avg), and playing as poorly as he has. Obviously his situation is a bit more out of necessity given the lack of inside players we have, but just how bad does Williams have to be in practice that he can't find the floor? Figure the fact that Butler, Buycks, and DJO are gonna be out there the majority of the time is obviously a contributing factor, but still...not one minute? I guess we just need to assume he really has no idea what he's doing out there and hope he can figure it out. Not that it means anything, but he was a Top 50-ish guy, no?

He was #67.

As for Maymon, remember that Buzz has repeatedly talked about how quickly Maymon was able to pick up the offense and what they wanted him to do, and how well he's been performing in practice.  Not only that, but while he hasn't been able to score, he's still rebounding the ball at a very good rate and playing decent defense considering he gives up several inches to most guys he's guarding.

[NotAnAlum]

There are a ton of little things that the 5 on the floor have to do to play well as a team.  Being in the right position, being on the right side of your man, recovering or giving help in the right way at the right time.  I'm amazed that the current team does this as well as they do given the short time they have played together.  If E Will doesn't have all of this completely down and completely right it could hurt what the team is trying to do and make the other 4 guys on the court look bad.  One of the things about Buzz is that he really identifies with those guys on the floor ( maybe a little too much) and he is reluctant to add in another element that he fears might not be ready to execute perfectly and as a result could hurt the other 4 on the court.  Now I think you can carry this too far, only playing your best guys, to the point that they no longer have the energy to execute.  I think Buzz probably realized this too, but it was too late in the FSU game.  You could sense this from his somewhat defensive answer to the question Monday night.  Usually when someone is defensive they know they may have made a mistake.  I think we'll see Buzz adapt.  He may lay it off to the fact that E Will has improved and that is probably true as well.  They say the team learns more from a loss than a win, I'm sure that goes for the coach as well.

[nyg]

I don't know that I'd call EW athletic, but I understand your point.

What people have to remember is that every year there are highly ranked kids who aren't ready to play at the collegiate level and rarely get off the bench as freshman.  Look at last year's class for example...and this is only a few of them.

#25 J'Mison Morgan at UCLA only played in only 21 games, never got more than 13 minutes in a game
#37 Ty Walker at Wake Forest only played in 11 games, never more than 5 minutes
#65 Catalin Baicu at Clemson only played in 9 games, never more than 9 minutes
#66 Olek Czyz at Duke only played in 13 games, never more than 9 minutes
#69 Scott Suggs at Washington only played in 17 games, never more than 14 minutes

Every coach makes decisions on whether or not their newcomers are ready to play based upon how they practice.  That's the way it always works.

See your point, and disagree that Ewill is not athletic.  Oh, I really can't make that determination because I have only seen him play for like six minutes total and not in person.  But just for kicks, last year Wake, UCLA, Clemson, Duke and Washington were all excellent teams and highly ranked.  Their rosters were nice and full. Their first eight players were probably alot better than our current eight man rotation, and with exception of Washington (PG Isiah Thomas, 5ft 8in and an All American candidate) did not have two players of the eight, under 6 ft.

If Ewill's playing time remains status quo, all of the above mentioned saw more time than him this year.  We'll see how this practice well/play thing turns out as the year progresses.  Good/pleasent argument though.

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't know that I'd call EW athletic, but I understand your point.

What people have to remember is that every year there are highly ranked kids who aren't ready to play at the collegiate level and rarely get off the bench as freshman.  Look at last year's class for example...and this is only a few of them.

#25 J'Mison Morgan at UCLA only played in only 21 games, never got more than 13 minutes in a game
#37 Ty Walker at Wake Forest only played in 11 games, never more than 5 minutes
#65 Catalin Baicu at Clemson only played in 9 games, never more than 9 minutes
#66 Olek Czyz at Duke only played in 13 games, never more than 9 minutes
#69 Scott Suggs at Washington only played in 17 games, never more than 14 minutes

Every coach makes decisions on whether or not their newcomers are ready to play based upon how they practice.  That's the way it always works.

A couple major flaws with those examples...they all played on some of the best teams in the country last year...all in or near the Top 10 much of the season. That does not exactly describe MU this year, playing a very thin bench.

Second, with the exception of Suggs, they are all C/PF post player types which most would agree typically take much longer to develop.

Tough to complain about where we are with one loss, and had we won that one game, there would be no real reason to talk about this, but given how MU ran out of gas in that game, it is just a bit surprising/disappointing a guy like Williams is not able to play.

[bilsu]

Maymon is doing good as a freshmen. He is not meeting fans expectations, who thought he was going to be an instant star. There is no way a 6-6 220 pound forward can be stopped in Wisconsin High School ball. He is too strong for everyone else. Now he has to learn to play agianst players that are as strong as he is. That will take time. In hind sight the perfect time to play Williams against Fl St. would have been to bring him in instead of Hayward in the last minute of the first half.

[bma725]

A couple major flaws with those examples...they all played on some of the best teams in the country last year...all in or near the Top 10 much of the season. That does not exactly describe MU this year, playing a very thin bench.

Second, with the exception of Suggs, they are all C/PF post player types which most would agree typically take much longer to develop.

Tough to complain about where we are with one loss, and had we won that one game, there would be no real reason to talk about this, but given how MU ran out of gas in that game, it is just a bit surprising/disappointing a guy like Williams is not able to play.

Team ranking is irrelevant to the discussion.  We're talking about Top 100 kids here, most of them are going to major schools, if not the top programs in the country, not bottom feeders.  

Not only that, but team ranking doesn't tell you anything about the strength or weakness they have at a particular position.  That's a more important factor in PT than the overall team quality.  UCLA was dying for a stud center last year, Morgan couldn't get PT because Howland didn't think he practiced well enough.  Clemson played most of the year without a center, Baicu couldn't get in the game.  Duke played small ball when Zoubek got in to trouble because Coach K didn't believe Czyz was ready.  MU on the otherhand has 4 guys that play the positions EW is capable of playing.

If you really want, I can pull the examples of kids who play similar positions to EW and didn't get any PT as freshman.  There's plenty of them as well.  Guys like Chace Stanback, Dominique Sutton, Isaiah Dahlman, Rashad Woods etc.  Just because a kid is ranked in the Top 100 doesn't mean he's automatically ready to step in and play college basketball.  For some kids it takes awhile to adjust to the demands of the game.

[GGGG]

One does kind of have to wonder when you see Maymon playing in every game (16 Min avg), and playing as poorly as he has.

Outside of the FSU game, Maymon is not playing poorly.  And in the FSU game he got injured.

[ChicosBailBonds]

One of the biggest complaints by New Orleans fans about Buzz's coaching was the limited number of players he used.  Now, that could be that he only had 5 or 6 serviceable players.

I know Buzz has said on many occasions that he wants to play 10 guys, which is terrific.  Let's hope we can get there.  What bothers me most is not seeing more bench depth when we play teams we blow out by 40 points, what better learning experience then to get real minutes.

[Marquette84]

Team ranking is irrelevant to the discussion.  We're talking about Top 100 kids here, most of them are going to major schools, if not the top programs in the country, not bottom feeders.  

Not only that, but team ranking doesn't tell you anything about the strength or weakness they have at a particular position.  That's a more important factor in PT than the overall team quality.  UCLA was dying for a stud center last year, Morgan couldn't get PT because Howland didn't think he practiced well enough.  Clemson played most of the year without a center, Baicu couldn't get in the game.  Duke played small ball when Zoubek got in to trouble because Coach K didn't believe Czyz was ready.  MU on the otherhand has 4 guys that play the positions EW is capable of playing.

If you really want, I can pull the examples of kids who play similar positions to EW and didn't get any PT as freshman.  There's plenty of them as well.  Guys like Chace Stanback, Dominique Sutton, Isaiah Dahlman, Rashad Woods etc.  Just because a kid is ranked in the Top 100 doesn't mean he's automatically ready to step in and play college basketball.  For some kids it takes awhile to adjust to the demands of the game.

You're missing the big picture.  Nobody is saying that Williams deserves 20+ minutes every game.  The situation is whether we could have won on Sunday if our best players--Butler and Hayward specifically--had played fewer minutes per game so that they would not have run out of gas.  That by necessity would require Williams to play (or Mbao or Frozena; or Fulce to average more than 7 mpg over the tournament). 

Your Duke example is not an example of Coach K and Buzz coaching the same way--it is an example of what Buzz should have done to win the tournament.

In the first game of last year's Coaches vs. Cancer pre-season tournament, Duke had nine players with at least 12 minutes each.  On top of that, Duke got another 13 minutes total from the 10/11/12 men on the roster (including Czyz).  Their starters played a total of 122 minutes.     In the championship the next night (vs. Michigan) Duke's starters put in 129 minutes, and the 10/11/12 players collectively added 10.

Compare this to MU.  Against Xavier Buzz played just 8 players.  The starters had 128 minutes.  However, Fucle started over Buycks but only played 10 minutes.  Our top 5 players in terms of minutes played totaled 153 minutes.  Against Michigan, Buzz again only played just 8 players total--and the starters put in 155 minutes.    Against FSU, again just 8 players, starters had 156 minutes.

122 minutes versus 155 minutes.  That's the stark reality of the situation.  Coach K understands it and limited his starters time so they weren't gassed.   

I understand that MU's bench is limited--two players injured hurts depth.  But you can't expect your best players to go 155 minutes a game and come back a day or two layer and perform well.  You have to find a way to use your bench.

[GOMU1104]

One of the biggest complaints by New Orleans fans about Buzz's coaching was the limited number of players he used.  Now, that could be that he only had 5 or 6 serviceable players.

I know Buzz has said on many occasions that he wants to play 10 guys, which is terrific.  Let's hope we can get there.  What bothers me most is not seeing more bench depth when we play teams we blow out by 40 points, what better learning experience then to get real minutes.

I think you are misinterpreting what Buzz said. He has stated numerous times that he "wants 10 high major players" so that he can look down at the bench at any time and be comfortable with who he is putting in.  That is different than playing 10 guys, or having a 10 man rotation.

I dont think he has ever said he wants a 10 man rotation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you are misinterpreting what Buzz said. He has stated numerous times that he "wants 10 high major players" so that he can look down at the bench at any time and be comfortable with who he is putting in.  That is different than playing 10 guys, or having a 10 man rotation.

I dont think he has ever said he wants a 10 man rotation.

That's possible, but aren't the two related?  If he wants a high major 10 person lineup but is only going to play 6 or 7, he'll have a tougher time landing 10 high majors if 3 or 4 of them never play.

[Big Papi]

I think you are misinterpreting what Buzz said. He has stated numerous times that he "wants 10 high major players" so that he can look down at the bench at any time and be comfortable with who he is putting in.  That is different than playing 10 guys, or having a 10 man rotation.

I dont think he has ever said he wants a 10 man rotation.

Buzz did say just this past MOnday that he would like a 10 man rotation.  We are not there yet.  Maybe by the end of the year we get to a solid 8-9.

[Big Papi]

I think a majority of you should listen to Buzz's radio show this past Monday, it is located at ESPN 540's website.  He specifically addresses all of these issues. Here is the jest of it:

Didn't feel his players were overly gassed or tired as all the Monday morning QBs here seem to think.
He prefers a 10 man rotation. He doesn't have 10 players right now that he is comfortable with.
He WILL play the players that give him the best chance to win TODAY as it is about results.
And just as important as the last comment, he will not put a player out on the floor in a position where there is a real good chance of failure.

One can surmise based off of his comments that a foul prone Hayward and Butler at whatever actual efficiency they had at the end of the game gave MU a better chance to win than a fresh EWill who has shown that his defense is very sub-par and his intensity lacking, a Maymon who knocked his head real good and was dizzy or a Fulce who looks like chicken with his head cut off on the court. 

Ranked or not, EWill has some major deficiencies that need to be worked on.  A Championship game against a quality opponent, especially late in the game is not the time to throw him out there.  Until he shows improvement, he won't get consistent minutes.  He knows what he has to do, he will get there as some point in time, lets all hope he gets there sooner than later.

At this point in time, I will give Buzz the benefit of the doubt.

[NotAnAlum]

Marquette84
A footnote to your Duke comments relating to the C vs C tourne Duke won both games by 25+ points so of course he could afford to play the lesser players more minutes.  Both were against teams that were vastly inferior to Top 10 ranked Duke (like us playing S. D.).  In FSU MU was playing an opponent who I would argue was more highly regarded (we were the underdog)
In a more compariable game against UCONN Duke played only 8 players and one (a freshman) played only 5 minutes.  Basically a 7 man rotation.  I watched this game and can tell you that Duke had control pretty much the whole time so Coach K certainly could have played the bench had he felt comfortable playing them.

[GOMU1104]

Buzz did say just this past MOnday that he would like a 10 man rotation.  We are not there yet.  Maybe by the end of the year we get to a solid 8-9.

Fair enough. I have yet to listen to the show.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hope he gets comfortable with more guys very soon, many bunnies coming up in the next month before the gauntlet. 

[MUCrew]

Here's the link to the practice on Sunday morning before the FSU game:

Sunday Morning Practice