OT: Superbowl

[muhoosier260]

as far as i could see no one posted anything after the superbowl, so i just wanted to be the first to say EAT IT BEARS!!!!!
GO COLTS

[spiral97]

hrm.. definitely NOT a bears fan but that was about as unclassy as you can get.  Not conduct becoming an MU fan.  I'm disappointed. 

On the other hand I was thoroughly disgusted with both teams and particularly so with the Bears.  I fully expected a lot more from their defense and at least for their QB to not shoot them in the foot while being ineffective.  IMHO the Bears lost this game more than the Colts one it.  Neither team should be particularly proud of their play.

All that said, there must be a winner and congrats to the Colts for doing just enough to come out on top.  Now let's get the next year started so my Pack and Mr. Favre can teach both teams how to play football.  8)

[muhoosier260]

oh c'mon. don't take it so seriously. its part of being a fan. i'm just having some fun being in the extreme minority on this board

[IAmMarquette]

hrm.. definitely NOT a bears fan but that was about as unclassy as you can get.  Not conduct becoming an MU fan.  I'm disappointed. 

On the other hand I was thoroughly disgusted with both teams and particularly so with the Bears.  I fully expected a lot more from their defense and at least for their QB to not shoot them in the foot while being ineffective.  IMHO the Bears lost this game more than the Colts one it.  Neither team should be particularly proud of their play.

All that said, there must be a winner and congrats to the Colts for doing just enough to come out on top.  Now let's get the next year started so my Pack and Mr. Favre can teach both teams how to play football.  8)

Spiral - make your reservations now for Arizona, first weekend in February 2008! 

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Hey Hoosier, I got your back!  Let's not call the cops over a little friendly dig.  Since justice is classy--and that's what we're all about here!--I'm standing up for you on this one. 

[maxpower773]

All I know is that Grossman is the best quarterback ever...who didn't see that game coming?

[marquette09]

Grossman deserved the MVP for the Colts, not Manning

[77ncaachamps]

I loved every minute of that postgame.

People exalted the Bears team the whole NFL season...they were nothing but a sham offense with a great defense in a weak NFC. They're lucky enough to get this far.

In the end, you have to have both.

Congrats to the Colts fans out there!

[CTWarrior]

People exalted the Bears team the whole NFL season...they were nothing but a sham offense with a great defense in a weak NFC. They're lucky enough to get this far.

The Bears were probably the fifth best team in the NFL after San Diego, Indianapolis, Baltimore and New England.  The NFC is way down now but will start to cycle back.  THat being said, if I had to bet my life on one team to reach next year's Super Bowl, I'd take the Bears. 

Key plays of the game were the back to back plays in the 3rd quarter when the Bears were driving in Colts territory and had 2nd and 1 and Grossman tripped over his own feet on second down and then fumbled the next snap on third.  Even though they had another chance when he threw that interception, after those two plays I was certain the Colts were going to win. 

[MilTown]

Come on MUHoosier, Bears fans are tough and dont cry like packers fans watching the Favre postgame interview on NYE. Ha ha, just kidding, well sort of. Anyway, I'm a Bears fan, and yes we lost and it sucks, but overall, it was a fun, exciting and entertaining season on many levels. Lots of ups and downs and drama. That's what it's all about, right??

I wish they would have played up to their capabilities in the Super Bowl, but even if they did that they still might not have won. The Colts are a superior team and they showed it. I guess the odds are against us returning to the Super Bowl next year, but I still think we have a nice core to be successful for years to come, as long as Rex is gone! In my mind I can't wait to see him leave town fast enough. I hope it happens.

[MarquetteFan94]

I guess I'd rather be "lucky" and make it to the Super Bowl while representing an awful, pathetic, pitiful, weak NFC....those comments are hilarious.  I'm sure there are a few million Packer fans that would've enjoyed representing that weak conference in Miami (or making the playoffs for that matter).  Not much you can do but play the teams in your division twice and go 11-1 in your conference....with your one loss coming after home field advantage had been secured.  I've heard the Bears have petitioned the league for a transfer to the AFC for better competition and to silence the critics.  We'll see what happens.

As far as the Grossman bashing...also ridiculous.  Does anyone remember how Favre played when he started out in Green Bay?!  Last I checked not too many QB's have led their team to the Super Bowl in their first full season.  Grossman had 7 starts coming into this year.  The bashing and criticism he's received is embarassing.

Rex Grossman's first full season:
3,193 yards/23 tds/20 ints/3 fumbles/73.9 QB rating/ 13-3 record - Super Bowl

Brett Favre's first full season:
3,303 yards/19 tds/24 ints/14 fumbles/72.2 QB rating/9-7 record

Peyton Manning's first full season:
3,739 yards/26 tds/28 ints/3 fumbles/71.2 QB rating/3-13 record

Yes, I know the Packers weren't as good in Favre's first full season and the Colts were pathetic....Grossman is in a great position with a great core in Chicago....I like the Bears chances next year and beyond.

Congrats to the Colts....clearly superior team and a classy organization.

[MilTown]

Please stop with the comparisons of Grossman to Favre, it's making me sick. Grossman should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Favre. Grossman is not an NFL caliber player for todays game, physically or mentally. You cannot have a QB in todays game that lacks scrambling ability or to move around the pocket. The D linemen and linebackers are way too fast. Peyton Manning is no Michael Vick, but the guy is crafty and can move up or back in the pocket or get outside the hashes. Grossmans mobility is just one of the many issues with his game. We could talk for hours about the rest.

[WashDCWarrior]

Last I checked not too many QB's have led their team to the Super Bowl in their first full season.

led??? I'll give you the Bears were a good team this year, but Grossman didn't lead them to the Super Bowl.  The Bears got to the Super Bowl despite Grossman.

[MarquetteFan94]

Please stop with the comparisons of Grossman to Favre, it's making me sick. Grossman should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Favre. Grossman is not an NFL caliber player for todays game, physically or mentally. You cannot have a QB in todays game that lacks scrambling ability or to move around the pocket. The D linemen and linebackers are way too fast. Peyton Manning is no Michael Vick, but the guy is crafty and can move up or back in the pocket or get outside the hashes. Grossmans mobility is just one of the many issues with his game. We could talk for hours about the rest.

I was comparing Grossman's mistakes/numbers to Favre's mistakes/numbers in their first full seasons....don't see where I compared their abilities.  Favre is a hall of famer, that started out making stupid plays and bad decisions. 

What makes me sick is how Bears "fans" crucify the guy that led our offense in all 19 games this season and led, yes led, the Bears to Super Bowl.  I'm sure most would agree that the QB is the leader of the team...good or bad.  Last year we were all screaming for him to get playing time over Orton and it finally happened....now it's not good enough.  The guy goes 13-3 as a starter and gets pummeled by the media....that's a joke.

Clearly, the defense is what drives the Bears....that's not too hard to figure out but with as many bad games as Grossman had, he had equal if not more good games.  That's what you get with a young, inexperienced quarterback.

Let me guess, you were screaming for Griese to be inserted into the game on Sunday.

On the mobility issue, I'm not sure Rothlisberger, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson set any QB rushing records...they seemed to fare pretty well in the Super Bowl.  You don't have to have Michael Vick's mobility to win a Super Bowl....Grossman can work on his foot work.

Funny how the defensive line has escaped a lot of criticism from the Super Bowl loss...giving up almost 200 yards on the ground doesn't win too many games either.

[MarquetteVol]

The Bears lost the game on defense. They couldn't get stops and let the Colts dominate the clock. Obviously, the some of the Bears 3-and-out situations hurt, but I think it falls on the defense. Grossman threw two very bad picks and the fumbles were inexcusable. But in the end, he was 20/28 for 165 yards and 1 touchdown. Not horrible numbers. The bottom line is that Bears D-line let the Colts run like...well, Colts on 'em. And, the mix-up in the secondary on the Reggie Wayne touchdown was embarrassing.

The Bears will not go another 21 years without a Super Bowl appearance....if the re-sign or franchise Lance Briggs. He's the Wilbur Marshall of this group. Look at the young talent, though: Chris Harris, Daniel Manning, Tommy Harris, Mark Anderson, Alex Brown, Nathan Vasher, Charles Tillman, Cedric Benson, Bernard Berrian, Devin Hester, and so on. If anything needs to happen, the Bears need to get younger on the offensive line. Say what you want about Rex, but he was not getting the same time to throw during the second half of the season. Peyton Manning's a great QB, but credit the Colts' line for giving him a ton of time to throw. I was cursing the Bears for not getting pressure on Manning, but there's a reason the Colts are sending a couple of lineman to the Pro Bowl.

Oh well. In the end, I can no focus my undivided attention on MU's journey to Atlanta! Now, that's something we can all agree on!

[ecompt]

I thought either of the Colts' running backs could have easily won MVP. Manning did a brilliant job with his dink passes and had tons of time to throw, thanks to a terrific offensive line. I think any one oif five AFC teams could have beaten the Bears, and I'm saying that as an NFC fan. I also came out of the game realizing that as long as Rex Grossman is in the league Eli Manning won't be the worst quarterback out there.

[Avenue Commons]

People exalted the Bears team the whole NFL season...they were nothing but a sham offense with a great defense in a weak NFC. They're lucky enough to get this far.

The Bears were probably the fifth best team in the NFL after San Diego, Indianapolis, Baltimore and New England.  The NFC is way down now but will start to cycle back.  THat being said, if I had to bet my life on one team to reach next year's Super Bowl, I'd take the Bears. 

The Bears beat Baltimore and I think the Bears team in the playoffs was better than New England. I'd agree that San Diego and the Colts were better teams. I thought San Diego was the best team in the NFL, but what's done is done.

Keep in mind, that if that INT isn't returned for a TD and the Bears score on that possession, the final score would have been Chicago 24 - Indy 22. That said, it didn't happen, and if the Bears had to lose to someone I'm glad it was Indy, which is a class team with a tremendous coach.

[MilTown]

I don't care how good the Bears defense is. In today's league, you need to score points on offense. You can't expect your defense to win the game. People say Baltimore was the exception a few years ago, but their offense wasn't as bad as people like to think. They had an all pro at running back, solid receivers and a quarterback who wasn't spectacular, but could make plays. The Bears just don't get it, and they haven't gotten it for about 15 years. I don't expect them to change now. I will not be surprised if they go all defense in the draft again this year.

[dwaderoy2004]

in today's league, the bears just reached the superbowl with their defense first strategy.  bash them all you want, but they got to where 30 other teams were trying to reach as well but couldn't...

[MarquetteFan94]

I don't care how good the Bears defense is. In today's league, you need to score points on offense. You can't expect your defense to win the game. People say Baltimore was the exception a few years ago, but their offense wasn't as bad as people like to think. They had an all pro at running back, solid receivers and a quarterback who wasn't spectacular, but could make plays. The Bears just don't get it, and they haven't gotten it for about 15 years. I don't expect them to change now. I will not be surprised if they go all defense in the draft again this year.

The Bears led the NFC in points per game at 26.7 and were 2nd in the NFL (tied with Indianapolis) to San Diego. If your special teams and defense produces some scores (like the Bears) you can win it all with a better-than-average (not great) offense.  Our Trent Dilfer wears number 18, frankly I'd rather watch Grossman than Orton lead this team.

The Bears have already discussed going younger on the offensive line with the draft and are potentially interested in Eric Steinbach from Cincy.  A team that lost by 12 in the Super Bowl doesn't have a lot to fix.  Let Grossman develop and good things will happen.

[augoman]

I'm glad the colts won for Dungey(sic) and happy for the bears great season, and know full well that they would have won had they had favre in the huddle.

[MarquetteVol]

I'm glad the colts won for Dungey(sic) and happy for the bears great season, and know full well that they would have won had they had favre in the huddle.

Which Favre? All-pro Brett Favre. Or, the over-the-hill, nutty Brett Favre of the past two seasons? Just curious.

[NavinRJohnson]

Which Favre? All-pro Brett Favre. Or, the over-the-hill, nutty Brett Favre of the past two seasons? Just curious.

Maybe both. Maybe neither. The Bears lost that game as much because their defense stunk out loud on Sunday, and for much of the past couple months, as much as because Grossman was (is?) bad. Colts were just the better team.

[NavinRJohnson]

BTW, that first full season argument is nothing but bogus, desperate rationalization/wishful thinking on the part of Bears fans. Rex Grossman just finished his fourth season in the league. What's he been doing the past three years while he was hurt, sitting on a beach somewhere? Favre's "first full season" was his 2nd year on the league when he played 15 games - 3227 yds, 18 TD's and 13 Int's, 85.3 QB rating. Peyton Manning's "first full season," was his rookie season.

[MarquetteFan94]

BTW, that first full season argument is nothing but bogus, desperate rationalization/wishful thinking on the part of Bears fans. Rex Grossman just finished his fourth season in the league. What's he been doing the past three years while he was hurt, sitting on a beach somewhere? Favre's "first full season" was his 2nd year on the league when he played 15 games - 3227 yds, 18 TD's and 13 Int's, 85.3 QB rating. Peyton Manning's "first full season," was his rookie season.

I couldn't disagree more.  There is nothing that will develop a player as much as pure playing time....in a game.  Grossman was injured and rehabilitating....not practicing.  So, by watching film and holding a clipboard for two years he should've somehow come into his own and stepped on the field as a 4th year veteran? 

Peyton's "first full season" was his rookie season because he played in every game....that's how that works....every game = full season.

[IAmMarquette]

BTW, that first full season argument is nothing but bogus, desperate rationalization/wishful thinking on the part of Bears fans. Rex Grossman just finished his fourth season in the league. What's he been doing the past three years while he was hurt, sitting on a beach somewhere? Favre's "first full season" was his 2nd year on the league when he played 15 games - 3227 yds, 18 TD's and 13 Int's, 85.3 QB rating. Peyton Manning's "first full season," was his rookie season.

I couldn't disagree more.  There is nothing that will develop a player as much as pure playing time....in a game.  Grossman was injured and rehabilitating....not practicing.  So, by watching film and holding a clipboard for two years he should've somehow come into his own and stepped on the field as a 4th year veteran? 

Tom. Brady.

[dwaderoy2004]

great example buddy.  because he is a once in a lifetime anomaly, not the rule.  rex grossman is the norm, i guy who in his first full season had some really great moments and some really poor moments, just like any other QB not named tom brady.  this qb just happened to take his team to the super bowl in his first full season...

[CWSKeith]

People exalted the Bears team the whole NFL season...they were nothing but a sham offense with a great defense in a weak NFC. They're lucky enough to get this far.

Sham offense?  If their offense is a sham, what does that say the rest of the NFC's offenses who all averaged less PPG than the Bears?  

I'm not putting the Bears up there with Indy, mind you, but it's far from inept.  The running back combo of Benson & Jones is one of the better duos in all of football, and that should improve next year with Benson getting more and more carries.  The offensive line is above average, although aging, and the wide receiver core is decent (nothing special, but good enough).  

Tom. Brady.

He's an exception, not the rule.

Mind you, I'm not 100% behind Grossman.  I don't know what to think at this point.  Grossman did some real nice things this season, but he still has a lot of weaknesses.  He locks on to one receiver way too often, his footwork and overall mechanics are poor -- this is taken to the nth degree when he's not given enough time in the pocket -- and he's very, very slow, much slower than I remember him being while at Florida (and that makes some sense, with the injuries he's had while in a Bears uni).  He throws a pretty good deep ball most of the time, but I question his decision making a lot of the time, too.  For example, there was one play during the game where Grossman got bumped around in the pocket and rolled out, but rather than running for the first down (it was a third down and he had PLENTY of room), he tried to force a ball into Desmond Clark (?), and the ball was nearly picked off.

There's nobody in the draft who could step in in six months and take over, unless the Bears were to trade up (which they won't -- Angelo loves his picks).  So an 'upgrade' would have to come through a trade (Byron Leftwich?), because I don't view Griese as much of an upgrade.

[NavinRJohnson]

So, by watching film and holding a clipboard for two years he should've somehow come into his own and stepped on the field as a 4th year veteran? 

Quite certain that's not what I said, of course game experience is the most valuable thing you can have as a player. But there is a far cry between that and this notion many are clinging too, that those early years count for nothing or that Grossman's situation is somehow similar to Favre or Peyton Manning in particular.

BTW, he did more than hold a clip board and watch film. He went through training camp and started and played actual games in each of his first three seasons - including playoffs.

Tom. Brady.

He's an exception, not the rule.

great example buddy.  because he is a once in a lifetime anomaly, not the rule.  rex grossman is the norm, i guy who in his first full season had some really great moments and some really poor moments, just like any other QB not named tom brady.

Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, Mark Bulger, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselback - all had similar experience with little or no playing time their first year or two (Grossman had three). Rex's QB rating in his "first full season" was 73.9. The average "first full season" QB rating of the others listed - 85.8. BTW, all of their individual "first full seasons" were significantly better than Peyton Manning's 71.2 passer rating, who was thrown straight into the fire from day one. Hmmmm.

I like Grossman and think he has potential to be slightly above average. I think that's about as high as his ceiling goes however.

[IAmMarquette]

great example buddy.  because he is a once in a lifetime anomaly, not the rule.  rex grossman is the norm, i guy who in his first full season had some really great moments and some really poor moments, just like any other QB not named tom brady.  this qb just happened to take his team to the super bowl in his first full season...

I think Brady took the Pats to the Super Bowl in his first full season too, right? That's an honest question. I'm trying to remember which year the Pats didn't make the Super Bowl (aside from this one). I know he took over for Bledsoe the year they beat the Rams, and kept the starting job the following season. Did they repeat that year, or was that the one season they didn't make the playoffs?

I'm simply using Brady as the most prominent example of how taking the starting job after a few years on the bench is certainly not the same as starting as a rookie, which seems to be the argument. I don't buy the "first full season" argument. Someone above listed Romo (granted, up & down, and should NOT have made the Pro Bowl...another debate), Hasselbeck, etc as other examples of guys who didn't play full seasons their first few years, but did well once they took the starting job. Grossman certainly had his ups and downs, and played very well in some games, but I don't believe that another year under center (after playing QB his entire life) will keep Rex from fumbling snaps and tripping over his own two feet while dropping back to pass. That's pretty basic stuff for any QB, especially for someone who played QB for a big-time college program and is now 3 years into his NFL career.