Buzz's Defining Moment

[Pakuni]

Let's be real, last year Buzz relied HEAVILY on his top 6 players and did very little to develop the inexperienced guys he had on his bench (even during the cupcake part of our schedule).  Supposedly, the knock on him during his one year at NO was the same thing...he didn't use his bench, he rode his stars too often.  IMO, Buzz is recruiting the type of team that SHOULD roll 10 deep every night; he now needs to develop trust in all of them and use them consistently if they're ever going to grow into real players...

Hmmm.
Last year's "inexperienced" guys probably would consist of Fulce, Otule, Butler and Hazel.

Otule and Fulce were injured early, including most of the cupcake part of the schedule, and even when they could play they had lots of catching up to do. Hard to get experience for injured players.
Butler, as I think we can all agree, developed quite nicely as the season progressed, averaged 20+ minutes per game the last two months and became a huge contributor down the stretch.
Hazel actually got solid minutes early and was given every opportunity to play and develop until, for various reasons, I suppose, Buzz pulled the plug in mid January.

So, of the four "inexperienced" guys, two were held back by injuries, a third just didn't cut it and a fourth developed significantly. Given the circumstances - not to mention the need to win - I'd suggest Buzz did what one could reasonably expect to develop these guys.

[StillAWarrior]

as an aside I love the people that say just becuase you are playing a short bench that you are not developing the other players.  Hello these kids spend approx.  20 hours a week in practice and play 1 or 2 games if you are a star that might mean you spend 70- minutes aweek playing in games.  If You have never played basketball or coached a lick of it if you think you get better by playing 5-10 minutes of game action versus the 20 hours of practice.  They are devoping the players even if they dont get the 5 minutes that coach potatoies see as so vital in their "development".  the amazing strides Otule made from last year to this are only becuase he got a few minutes in afew games right ?  other wise he couldnt make a local junior high team

This is a great point.  Players are developed in practice, not in games.  A backup might get 6 minutes of game time in a week with and only get the ball in a scoring situation a couple of times.  This doesn't even compare to the hours and repetition they get in practice.

I don't often agree with you, Hayward, but I think people should recognize that Buzz (and staff) develop these guys when we're not watching.  If a coach/staff has a good reputation for developing players, I think this says a lot more about their practice habits than their game substitution patterns.

[drewm88]

What i cannot figure out is why he is still allowed to post on here.  Please ban Chicos.

Agreed. All Chicos does is come on here frequently and weigh in on the discussions taking place! We can't let this happen. If we let Chicos share his opinions and insights picked up from working in/with various Athletic Departments and DirectTV, where does it stop? How dare he give credit to people when other people believe they don't deserve credit! This is the first step on a slippery slope, and do you know where it ends? Anarchy. Total anarchy. We can't take this risk. Chicos must be stopped.

[MU_Iceman]

This is a great point.  Players are developed in practice, not in games.  A backup might get 6 minutes of game time in a week with and only get the ball in a scoring situation a couple of times.  This doesn't even compare to the hours and repetition they get in practice.

I don't often agree with you, Hayward, but I think people should recognize that Buzz (and staff) develop these guys when we're not watching.  If a coach/staff has a good reputation for developing players, I think this says a lot more about their practice habits than their game substitution patterns.

I should probably clarify...I don't disagree with you at all.  My father played in college and coached at a high level as well.  There's no question that these boys develop more in practice than game situations.

Yes, injuries slowed fulce and o'tule's progression...NO QUESTION about it.  And you're right, Hayward...Crean left Buzz an inbalanced roster.  I'm simply stating that injuries and fatigue happen...and early in the season when we were beating up on the "little sisters of the poor", guys like Hazel, O'Tule (who was healthy by then, but "behind"), Acker and Cubi (who both regressed early last year) should have seen more than 2 minutes of mop up time so that they were prepared to step up in pressure situations when we needed them down the stretch

I'm not bad-mouthing Buzz and I agree that he was limited in what he could do last year.  But depth shouldn't be a problem for us moving forward (which I'm stoked about) and I hope he gets everyone more involved because it will only help us in the long run...

As for development in practice vs in-game...my only argument is this:  Any D1 player can knock down a free throw in practice; but in the BEast these boys need to handle the pressure, the noise, and the adrenaline...that comes with playing...

[Marquette84]

the chicken littles like you saw it as a threat as a sure turn for the worse.  I saw it as an opportunity that 90% of the coaches out there could and would do a better job in the areas of representing the university, coaching and recruitng.  And since then some littel hayseed that no one had ever heard of with no credentials and no chance has proven to you what me and others already knew.   

Wrong.  The realists like me saw the potential of a turn for the worse.  And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt that this year's backslide is going to be temporary.

Those of us who don't base our feelings on some personal animosity saw that MU had a charismatic, media-savvy coach that was well liked by the national press and kept us front and center on ESPN. 

Yeah, he promoted himself as much as his school--no different than Knight, Coach K, Olson, McGuire.  Yeah, he leveraged his success into pay increases--as if any other person in the same spot wouldn't do the same.

Those of us who have been around a while have seen MU hire six coaches in the post McGuire era, only two of which--Crean and O'Neill--could reasonable be termed successful. 

Those of us who are realists see promise in Buzz, but also accept that with that promise comes a whole lot of risk.  Buzz might surpass Crean's accomplishments someday--but he hasn't done so yet.   And no matter what you want to belive about him being "coach for life", he is a guy who has steadily worked his way up the coaching ladder, with 9 stops in 19 years. 

Trust me--I'll give Buzz just as much credit as I give Crean if he's still here in 2017, with a final four and five NCAA tournaments under his belt.  But until then, I'm going base my comments on realism--not some "Crean Bad/Buzz Good" pablum based on some personal sleight from a basketball camp.

[77ncaachamps]

Back to Vander....


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


TARIK...you're next!

 

[Daniel]

Buzz has said all along that he wants 13 quality scolie players on the team - I assume so he can use them on the court.  I think we will see a lot of players playing this year, and in the years to come.  Nothing better for a coach than to look down the bench and be able to put another kid in and not miss much of a beat.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Since Hayward brought his name up, and I'm just curious, is McMorrow still at MU & was he at MM?

[77fan88warrior]

Back to Vander....


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


TARIK...you're next!

 

Thanks for rebooting the discussion. It's amazing how a positive post turns into the usual Crean Bashing(fornever and PRN), Hayward vs. Chicos, .......

Great job Buzz! I can't wait to see Vander in a MU uniform and this year's team play. I think message boards at schools with football must have fewer sidetracks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos can and will rip otule and Mboa all he wants as not being "stud big men"  but i will respnd by simply saying ..."at least Buzz is trying!!"  

Crean would go a recruiting class or two in a row without signing any size whatsoever.  It seemed becuase we had no big men he felt he had to sign one that could star from day 1, and if he could not do that he would not sign any at all.  He signed merrit in class #1 then Ooze 5 years later,  throw in Kinsella and I beleive he only singed 3 guys in 9 years over 6'8"!!  

Buzz is not so stupid, he will recruit the best big men he can and take the best available, whether it be McMorrow, Mboa, Otule or whomever he knows if he signs one a year in a few years he will have one that is a senior and one that is ajunior and two in tutelage.  

Anyone that watched MM saw Otule's growth.  Also anyone that watched MM saw Mboa's skill and Bball IQ that kid was underecruited big time.  he is 20 pounds away from being a stud.  By his junior year he will be a houselhold name in the BE.  

Give Buzz time on the "stud " part of signing stud big men but in the mean time i give him huge kudos for at least freking signing them.  he has signed 3 players 6'10 or bigger in 3 years where Crean signed 3 in 9 years.

Chicos will alsways find something to rip on.  But in ayear or two when these guards are rolling otule and Mbao and potential a big yet to be signed will be developed enough to give these new guards something the 3 amigos never had.  

one last thing Chicos is ....  there is simply no other way to describe ...  He rips Buzz for his recruiting and says something along the lines that " steve Lavin could recruit too and look at what that got h.  steve lavin got run out of town becuase he did not immediately duplicate the success and national championships of harrick.  Instead of refernecing the hundreds of coaches that had tremendous sucess he finds one coach that he thinks did poorly in relation to his talent.  

But even his comparing Buzz to Lavin is pathetic, for here is lavin's Bio  Chicos rips Buzz and compares him to lavin as if Lavin was Bob Dukiet.  here are the real FACTS and chicos like to tell people he deals in...

 During Lavin's tenure as a head coach, he was one of only two coaches in the country, along with Duke's Mike Krzyzewski, to lead his team to five NCAA "Sweet 16s" in six years ('02, '01, '00, '98, '97). Lavin guided UCLA to six consecutive 20+ game winning seasons and to six consecutive NCAA tournaments. As head coach, his career record in the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament is 10-1.

wow if buzz is so god awful to perform as poorly as steve lavin then i am pretty damn excited.  Chicos could you not find someone else to compare buzz to?  I am sure if you look really hard you can find some other coach that failed miserably that you could comapre our coach to.  

...

edited for over the top personal attacks. 

I don't rip players, at least I try very very hard not to.  They're 18-22 year old kids and I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.  If I didn't rip the bigs we had in the last 15 years, why would I rip our current bigs?   

And yes, only someone as bright as you could defend Steve Lavin.  He's a nice guy and a good commentator, but there is a reason he was fired from UCLA.  He brought in great talent but didn't know how to coach them at all.  You see, when alums see #1 recruiting classes year in and year out but then on the court they lose to teams by 35 to 45 points, lose to Princeton in the NCAA, etc, etc....well they don't like that so much.  Not sayin, just sayin.

And you really need to use that search function more often.  I'm not ripping Buzz at all, only saying that getting top recruits is only one part of the puzzle.  So far so good with Buzz, not sure why you think that's a rip....but if I said water is wet you would bitch about it.  LOL, enjoy life there sugarplum

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wrong.  The realists like me saw the potential of a turn for the worse.  And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt that this year's backslide is going to be temporary.

Those of us who don't base our feelings on some personal animosity saw that MU had a charismatic, media-savvy coach that was well liked by the national press and kept us front and center on ESPN. 

Yeah, he promoted himself as much as his school--no different than Knight, Coach K, Olson, McGuire.  Yeah, he leveraged his success into pay increases--as if any other person in the same spot wouldn't do the same.

Those of us who have been around a while have seen MU hire six coaches in the post McGuire era, only two of which--Crean and O'Neill--could reasonable be termed successful. 

Those of us who are realists see promise in Buzz, but also accept that with that promise comes a whole lot of risk.  Buzz might surpass Crean's accomplishments someday--but he hasn't done so yet.   And no matter what you want to belive about him being "coach for life", he is a guy who has steadily worked his way up the coaching ladder, with 9 stops in 19 years. 

Trust me--I'll give Buzz just as much credit as I give Crean if he's still here in 2017, with a final four and five NCAA tournaments under his belt.  But until then, I'm going base my comments on realism--not some "Crean Bad/Buzz Good" pablum based on some personal sleight from a basketball camp.

Well stated.  My position will remain the same on this....the frustrating part for me has always been MU's constant need to take a risk each coaching hire.  I was hoping we were finally over that, but we weren't.  So far, it's worked out well and let's hope that continues.  It does amaze me, however, when you look at the MU men's basketball coaching hires over the last 40 years, not one guy came over from a high major program to be our head coach.  All were assistant coaches from elsewhere, assistant coaches promoted within, or mid major head coaches (Sienna, Belmont Abbey, St. Peter's). 

When Buzz leaves (here we go, someone will say this is me being negative....it's not, my assumption is that he will leave like every other coach in DI leaves....eventually.....hopefully that's a decade down the line) I suspect MU will do the same thing again.  It worked with O'Neill and Crean hires as well as McGuire.  It failed with Rick, Hank (some will disagree, but that's my opinion), Deane, Dukiet.  Jury out on Buzz, but so far looks like it works. 

With the amount of $$$$ we spend at MU (some publications rank us #1 in the USA on basketball expenditures) you would think we wouldn't have to take that risk each time and pray it works.  Oh well, in the meantime I'll sit back and hope this current risky hire (not just my words, Andy Katz, SI, ESPN, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, etc, etc) continues to do well.  So far, so good!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You see, when alums see #1 recruiting classes year in and year out but then on the court they lose to teams by 35 to 45 points, lose to Princeton in the NCAA, etc, etc....well they don't like that so much.  Not sayin, just sayin.

Wasn't that Jim Harrick's regime? I thought they lost to Princeton the year after the won it all under Harrick?

Also, being Steve Lavin isn't all bad. I believe he married a centerfold. And he's still rumored for job openings every year.

[redbirdwarrior]

You guys are so cool.  I can't wait to grow up and be just like each of you.  No need to continually attack, react, attack, react ad infinitum, because each of you are super.  Now that all the egos are massaged, please release the hijacked thread.

And as for getting Blue, I am currently on top of my desk doing the happy dance.  Very difficult to type while doing so...

GO WARRIORS!!!

[mosarsour]

Any sadder than your passive aggression toward anything positive that MU did between 1999 and 2008?

+1

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wasn't that Jim Harrick's regime? I thought they lost to Princeton the year after the won it all under Harrick?

Also, being Steve Lavin isn't all bad. I believe he married a centerfold. And he's still rumored for job openings every year.

You're right, Lavin's team lost to Detroit in the first round...Harrick's last year (Lavin..was the assistant was when they lost to Princeton)

Here are the Lavin's accomplishments and struggles

#1 recruiting class in USA 1998 and 2001
7 McDonald's All Americans signed
6 straight NCAA Appearances, but at UCLA they want progress in those tournaments, they didn't see it.

Where Lavin got in trouble was his results were not matching his recruiting classes and he got labeled as a bad coach.  When you continue to land top talent but don't bring home conference titles or Final Fours, you get labeled quickly....fairly or unfairly.  Lavin couldn't overcome that.  He finished 3rd in the Pac Ten 3 times, 4th one time and a dreadful 6th twice...you can't finish 6th in the Pac Ten (10 teams) when you have top recruiting classes in the country - it cost him his job.

There were also some absolute monster blowouts.  When people here get upset about MU being routed vs Kansas, well we got beat by a squad loaded with 4 and 5 star players.  UCLA was getting crushed in some games despite having tons of 4 & 5 star players on their own roster.

UCLA fans expected with their top ranked recruiting classes to not lose to Duke by 38, Cal by 45, Kentucky by 26, 29 to Cal, etc, etc. 

Rest assured, some of those same expectations will come now with Buzz.  When you bring in top classes, people expect you to win and win big.  Other coaches will be more than willing to point out to recruits if it doesn't happen, just the nature of the beast.  It's a good problem to have, however.  Let's hope he can keep it going.