Monson to Few. Crean to Williams

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's a different take since some people like to read to much into some of my comments or forget what I actually said (the search function here at Scoop is very good, please use it).

Perhaps this is ultimately going to shake out as the Gonzaga situation did.  Monson brought them to a great level, a level they hadn't been to ever and Few sustained and made it even better.

Crean brought MU out of the abyss, from a has-been program that strove for NIT births to a school that could make the Final Four again and did.  Perhaps Buzz takes MU to another level, he just did something that no coach has since Al McGuire in terms of signing talent.


What is key in both situations, someone had to set the table, someone had to bring their programs back to a level where this stuff can become possible, someone had to make the program relevant again.  This is where I get so turned off by all the anti-Crean BS over the years.  Without Crean, douche or not, none of this stuff is happening right now.  Go back further, without McGuire, I doubt Crean is ever interested in MU to begin with.   Programs are built on building blocks of success.   

My hope, as I stated 2 years ago, is that Buzz can take it even further than Crean.  Sometimes managers, bosses, coaches, CEOs, etc are great at kick starting or building things up, but they hit a ceiling.  Others are needed for a change of pace to keep things going or taken to another level.  It is still my hope that Buzz is that guy, but yes, I will wait to anoint him  as such.  But so far, so good.

[rocky_warrior]

FWIW, I'm not sure if you're in part posting this for my sake, but...

I'm fulling willing to admit that Crean was part of the "road" to where we are now.  He brought in Buzz, and also brought success to MU.

I'll leave it at that.

[avid1010]

TC's a jerk...that's my only problem with what he did at MU.  Did he hit a ceiling, probably.  Did he realize that and feel the need to move while his stock was high, probably.  Did he do so with no class, definitely.  I'm sure many people have a slanted view of what he did while at MU because of the way he left.  I surely don't care to defend him.

[Daniel]

At Midnight Madness, Buzz spoke in the beginning saying that MU basketball is where it is today beccuase of the previous players and the huge fan support.  So, in a sense, he was ackowledging the success the previous coach(es) had in gettong some great players to MU and how MU fared.

There is no doubt, that taking over a successful program is easier than taking over a desparate one in a lot of ways.  In other ways it is tougher with more expected.  I give Crean credit for all he did here.  He put Marquette back on the national map.  Buzz is doing great taking it over, and hopefully wil take MU to a higher level.

Let's GO MARQUETTE!

[77ncaachamps]

Be careful that we give early credit to Buzz for future successes not realized...

But with these recruiting classes...last year's success and the blossoming of Wes Matthews...he's making it a great ride so far!

[The Lens]

Interesting theory CBB.  As Gonzaga hit the Elite 8 with Monson and never with Few, you can argue he took them higher.  Wouldn't be surprised if that holds true with MU, as Final Fours are pretty tough to come by.

Also both programs were 2 years removed from their last NCAA appearance when each TC & Monson were hired, though Monson was an assistant at Gonzaga on their '95 NCAA team. 

Also TC was the head man for 9 years, his longevity itself creates a certain legacy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Be careful that we give early credit to Buzz for future successes not realized...

But with these recruiting classes...last year's success and the blossoming of Wes Matthews...he's making it a great ride so far!

This.

[ChicosBailBonds]

FWIW, I'm not sure if you're in part posting this for my sake, but...

I'm fulling willing to admit that Crean was part of the "road" to where we are now.  He brought in Buzz, and also brought success to MU.

I'll leave it at that.

No, not posted for you....for the IDIOTS (and I do mean IDIOTS) that actually believe Crean did nothing for MU and the success we're having now would have happened if Deane or anyone not named Crean were still around.  That's who it's intended for.

People don't realize how truly bad it was when Crean got to MU and the only people that really know were those in the trenches working it.  It was BAD!  10 years ago if you would have told me the next decade we would have gone to the Big East, built a state of the art practice center, been one of the top 4 programs in the Big East, gone to the Final Four, landed one of the top 5 players IN THE #^#$ world, set all time attendance records, etc, etc.....you would have been laughed out of the 1212 building and put into a straight jacket.

Sure, everyone believed it could get a lot better, but not this good, but there are literally some absolute morons as MU fans that believe this stuff happened in a vacuum or without the one they hate so much, but the reality is something completely different.

[PJDunn]

One can only hope that Crean enjoys a ride at Indiana that is similar to Monson's at Minnesota.

[NotAnAlum]

Chicos, I think you take the Crean haters way to seriously.   I think the way Crean left seemed to confirm all the worst suspicions everyone had of him.  He was always looking, self promoting, setting himself up for more pay or that bigger job.  So the only thing they can do is totally write him off.  I don’t think the silent majority feels that way.  Sure he used us but we used him too and the program is better off as a result.  I don’t think you have to believe Crean was bad in order to have Buzz be good.  While you’re passing around credit for bringing the program up don’t forget Cords who had the guts to fire Deane.  There were people, even some on this board, who for years claimed that was the wrong decision.  I’d say its pretty clear now that was the right decision.
One thing I will say about Crean that  I read elsewhere on this board was that Crean started out building from the ground up and living for the program but success almost came too early.  Instead of thinking “boy I got really lucky by getting D Wade” Crean seemed change his thining to “I’m great and my system is great and that is why I got D Wade and got to the Final 4”.  When Buzz first took over and kept saying “its not about me” that’s what he was saying.  He was drawing a distinction with the guy he had worked under for more than a year.  That doesn’t make Crean bad, heck with Pitino and Calhoun it all about them, no question.
I do believe that Buzz’s style relates better to the kids he is recruiting.  So far he seems to be ahead of Crean in that way.  If Buzz’s approach means his staff stays in place longer that will be good.  You can rationalize Crean’s assistant turn over anyway you want but that constant turn over was bad for the program period.  The jury is totally out on if Buzz can coach both practice and game coach.  This year will tell us a lot.  And even if he makes mistakes and they lose games they shouldn’t we can put up with that if he learns from those mistakes and seems to improve.
I always keep this in mind.  We didn’t chose to part with Crean, he left us.  It doesn't really matter whether he was good or bad, he's gone and MU had no control over it.  We’ve got to just hope that the guy we choose keeps us in the top of the Big East.  If he can do that, and its not a given by any stretch, it will be fun to be a fan.   

[NCMUFan]

People are always telling people to move on from Crean.  Maybe that applies here again.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I have yet to read anybody claim Crean did nothing. Almost all the people who dislike Crean feel the way they do because he's a complete horse's ass, self-tanning phony. He had some success, but I hated that he was the face of our program for so long. Couldn't stand it, actually. Now the face of our program seems to be our players.

[LCDutchman]

Crean was flawed like everyone else.  If you sat in the front row like I did for several years near him you saw and heard a jerk.  Could he recruit yes but like others here I would rather Crean had left after the final four.  I could have accepted that but he didn't because he said he had a different agenda.  He didn't and he doesn't.  He will not win at Indiana and when that happens he will be like Monson, a has been.