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Author Topic: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs  (Read 5991 times)

CrackedSidewalksSays

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[Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« on: October 08, 2009, 08:15:03 AM »
Media updates from around the interwebs

Written by: noreply@blogger.com (Tim Blair)

With only nine days remaining before Marquette Madness here are a few media updates:

Fox Sports' Jeff Goodman previews the BIG EAST in his latest effort.  Goodman slots MU in as the league's 12th best team but disappointingly leaves Lazar Hayward off of his first-team All-BIG EAST pre-season squad in favor of Devin Ebanks and Greg Monroe.

In case you missed our tweet on this yesterday, Wesley Matthews started and scored 16 points for the Utah Jazz in their exhibition game against the Chicago Bulls on Tuesday night.  Matthews scored 11 points in the third quarter and drew high praise from Basketball Hall of Famer Jerry Sloan.
Quote
"I think he has a great body for basketball," Sloan said. "Just trying to figure out what he's doing, what we're trying to accomplish and all that stuff will take him a little time. But I like some of the things he's done."
Many thanks to the guys at the NBE Basketball Report for including Rob's stellar JUCO analysis in their league-wide update this morning.  Among the notes in their update is the ESPN.com report that MU is now in the final three for Reggie Smith, a guard from Thornton High School, south of Chicago.  Smith is also considering USC and UCLA with the Trojans and former MU coach Kevin O'Neill considered the leader.  

Don't forget to follow CrackedSidewalks on Twitter -- click here to check it out.  We keep a running update of Tweets on the right nav bar too.

Also -- Al's Run needs your support.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/10/media-updates-from-around-interwebs.html

4everwarriors

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 08:46:14 AM »
Final 3 again? The same place we've been before. I thought said Buzz we'd be in places we'd never been before.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

g0lden3agle

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 08:56:03 AM »
Jeff Goodman seems to show no regard for MU whatsoever, not mentioning them anywhere in the "Top Storylines" (How do we recover after losing so much senior talent?) "Five Frosh to Watch" (I guess this doesn't count DJO+ Buycks, but still), and "Five non-conference games to watch" (Really? No MU v MSOE? Does this guy even watch college ball??)

bilsu

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 09:25:51 AM »
He would fit in real good at MU, he is injured.

dsfire

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 09:53:16 AM »
Jeff Goodman seems to show no regard for MU whatsoever, not mentioning them anywhere in the "Top Storylines" (How do we recover after losing so much senior talent?) "Five Frosh to Watch" (I guess this doesn't count DJO+ Buycks, but still), and "Five non-conference games to watch" (Really? No MU v MSOE? Does this guy even watch college ball??)
The "Five frosh to watch" seemed a bit odd (and not because it's actually 10 freshmen at five schools) in not mentioning MU - certainly the guys at UConn and Nova are legit, and Stephenson and Taylor are both elite recruits (plus Stephenson may be one to watch for other reasons).  The two big men from West Virginia don't seem to make an appearance in the RSCI so that's a bit puzzling.

As for the storylines, I'm sure there's one or more about every team in the league.  Given the expectations for us next year I don't think it's shocking that we're not in the top 8 or so stories.

Sidenote: isn't Monroe a center and Harangody a power forward?

hoyasincebirth

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 02:41:51 PM »
Media updates from around the interwebs

Written by: noreply@blogger.com (Tim Blair)

With only nine days remaining before Marquette Madness here are a few media updates:

Fox Sports' Jeff Goodman previews the BIG EAST in his latest effort.  Goodman slots MU in as the league's 12th best team but disappointingly leaves Lazar Hayward off of his first-team All-BIG EAST pre-season squad in favor of Devin Ebanks and Greg Monroe.

In case you missed our tweet on this yesterday, Wesley Matthews started and scored 16 points for the Utah Jazz in their exhibition game against the Chicago Bulls on Tuesday night.  Matthews scored 11 points in the third quarter and drew high praise from Basketball Hall of Famer Jerry Sloan.Many thanks to the guys at the NBE Basketball Report for including Rob's stellar JUCO analysis in their league-wide update this morning.  Among the notes in their update is the ESPN.com report that MU is now in the final three for Reggie Smith, a guard from Thornton High School, south of Chicago.  Smith is also considering USC and UCLA with the Trojans and former MU coach Kevin O'Neill considered the leader.  

Don't forget to follow CrackedSidewalks on Twitter -- click here to check it out.  We keep a running update of Tweets on the right nav bar too.

Also -- Al's Run needs your support.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/10/media-updates-from-around-interwebs.html

Are you really questioning Monroe's inclusion? He's the most versatile player in the big east.[Monroe 12.7pts, 6.5 rbds, 2.5 ast, 1.8 stl, 1.5 blk  1.57PPS; Hayward 16.3 pts, 8.6 rbs, 1.1 ast, 1.0stl, 0.3 blk, 1.31PPS]  I can see an argument for hayward over ebanks, but ebanks will be the star on a team that's much better than Marquette this year, so I assume that's why he gave ebanks the nod.

I'm fairly confident that that will be the BE first team this year.

reinko

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 03:13:01 PM »
Are you really questioning Monroe's inclusion? He's the most versatile player in the big east.[Monroe 12.7pts, 6.5 rbds, 2.5 ast, 1.8 stl, 1.5 blk  1.57PPS; Hayward 16.3 pts, 8.6 rbs, 1.1 ast, 1.0stl, 0.3 blk, 1.31PPS]  I can see an argument for hayward over ebanks, but ebanks will be the star on a team that's much better than Marquette this year, so I assume that's why he gave ebanks the nod.

I'm fairly confident that that will be the BE first team this year.

Start the pissing match.  Monroe is soft.  At 6'11" 240 he should be a force.  He reminds me of a 34 year old version of Rasheed Wallace, content playing in the high post, stepping back shooting 3's he has no business shooting.  And methinks your stats actually support Lazar over Monroe no?  My argument is that if we are judging Preseason 1st BE on the previous year performance, Lazar clearly has the edge.  If it is done on potential, that is a different story, and esentially just opinions, and they don't jack.

Monroe
Season      GP      MPG     PPG       FG%    3FG%     FT%     APG      RPG        BPG      SPG
2008-2009 31      30.903  12.677   57.2    33.3       70.0      2.548   6.548      1.452    1.839

Hayward
Season       GP     MPG      PPG      FG%     3FG%     FT%     APG      RPG        BPG      SPG
2008-2009  35     31.686   16.286  46.9     35.8       82.0     1.114    8.629     0.257    1.0





Henry Sugar

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 03:18:52 PM »
Are you really questioning Monroe's inclusion? He's the most versatile player in the big east.[Monroe 12.7pts, 6.5 rbds, 2.5 ast, 1.8 stl, 1.5 blk  1.57PPS; Hayward 16.3 pts, 8.6 rbs, 1.1 ast, 1.0stl, 0.3 blk, 1.31PPS]  I can see an argument for hayward over ebanks, but ebanks will be the star on a team that's much better than Marquette this year, so I assume that's why he gave ebanks the nod.

I'm fairly confident that that will be the BE first team this year.

Last year Lazar was more efficient (114 vs 111) with a higher usage (24 vs 23.3) than Monroe, and he was a better offensive (10.3 vs 8.8) and defensive (21.6 vs 16.7) rebounder.  Sure... Monroe has a better assist rate (7.5 vs 18.8), steal rate (1.8 vs 3.7), and block rate (0.9 vs 5.1).  Monroe was also worse at turnovers (14.0 vs 21.3).

What about any of that information makes him a slam dunk selection over Lazar?
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

hoyasincebirth

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 03:51:41 PM »
Greg does more things well then Hayward does how is that hard to see.
His versatility makes him a better selection. How do the stats I provide support Hayward. He scored a few more points and few more rebounds but was worse at every thing else. Monroe also has a better FG% than Hayward.
Greg may have more total number of turnovers, but he has a better ast/to ratio than hayward.

Greg runs the Offense for Georgetown. Everything flows through him and he had more attention on him by opposing defenses than Hayward did.

And this was all as a freshman. His pts and rebounding are practically identical to Hayward's from his sophomore year. You obviously have factor in a bit of expected improvement from year to year. Obviously Hayward's points will go up this year since he has much less help this year. Preseason rankings are all based on expectations not just on what's happened in the past. We'll see how Hayward handles being the focus of other teams defenses liek greg was and whether he looks as good with out mcneal, matthews, and james drawing attention away from him.

Don't get me wrong I think Hayward is a great player but ask any NBA scout who's the better player, and not just on potential, Greg can do things that hayward simply cannot do. Greg is a play maker. He makes everyone on his team better. Can you say the same thing about hayward? Can you provide proof?

Henry Sugar

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 04:09:11 PM »
I'm sorry... that wasn't the answer we were looking for.  We would have accepted:

*Monroe plays for my team and not yours, so of course I think he is a slam dunk choice over Hayward

or

*Monroe was a top 10 recruit with extra hype, so that impacts how he is perceived by the national media

We would have accepted either of those answers.  Because at least those would have been honest. 

My point is that you seem to believe that there is a clear cut distinction between the two players and there is not.  For the record, we know why Goodman didn't include Lazar over Monroe and Ebanks.  It was simply because he expects GU and WVU to have more success this season.

http://twitter.com/goodmanonfox

Again, not clear cut, and not based on the on-court performance.
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hoyasincebirth

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 05:21:24 PM »
Will you admit the only reason you think Hayward should be First team is because he plays for your team?

Of course I like greg and think he's better mostly because he plays for my team. All fans do that. I just think if you ask objective people they'll pick greg almost every time.  Of course you'll jsut say well that's because of the hype he had coming in. Of course that hype has to be undeserved. no player who's actually good ever gets praised.

Also goodman's reasoning is perfectly legitimate. The best players on the best teams make the all conference teams. That's their point, that's how they work. If it was purely on who scored they wouldn't need to vote on it. And you'd see mike rosario and dominique jones on there.

There is a clear cut distinction between the players and if you yourself weren't biased you'd realize that. Hayward is very good at what he does. He scores points, and he rebounds. Those things are very important. Greg does those things slightly less but also blocks shots, steals the ball, and dishes out assists.

His passing and court vision are making NBA scouts drool. He's a guaranteed lottery pick, while Hayward isn't even guaranteed to get drafted. 

I could also point out that Greg's stats came against a significantly tougher schedule than hayward's. SOS 5 vs. 45.

I'm not stupid enough to think I'm going to come onto another fan bases message board and convince them their player isn't as good as mine. I figured that the more legitimate debate was Hayward over Ebanks.  If big east teams went back to their larger format or even just added a 6th member Hayward would be the next one to be added. 

Henry Sugar

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 10:44:29 PM »
Will you admit the only reason you think Hayward should be First team is because he plays for your team?

Here's my basic point.  You are arguing that Monroe is clearly better than Lazar.  I don't think that Lazar is necessarily better than Monroe... but I also don't think he's worse.  Lazar is just as good as Greg Monroe.  That's the fundamental difference here.

Of course I like greg and think he's better mostly because he plays for my team. All fans do that. I just think if you ask objectivesubjective people they'll pick greg almost every time.  Of course you'll jsut say well that's because of the hype he had coming in. Of course that hype has to be undeserved. no player who's actually good ever gets praised.

If you asked most people, they probably would pick Monroe over Lazar.  However, the objective data does not indicate that Monroe is clearly better.

Also goodman's reasoning is perfectly legitimate. The best players on the best teams make the all conference teams. That's their point, that's how they work. If it was purely on who scored they wouldn't need to vote on it. And you'd see mike rosario and dominique jones on there.

I almost agree, and really have no issues with Goodman's reasoning.  Lazar is almost certainly going to be on a worse team than Ebanks and Monroe.  But you lost me on your "on the best teams" part.  7-11 in conference last year... and no Summers this year.

There is a clear cut distinction between the players and if you yourself weren't biased you'd realize that. Hayward is very good at what he does. He scores points, and he rebounds. Those things are very important. Greg does those things slightly less but also blocks shots, steals the ball, and dishes out assists.

His passing and court vision are making NBA scouts drool. He's a guaranteed lottery pick, while Hayward isn't even guaranteed to get drafted. 

So except for the fact that he's a more efficient offensive player, better rebounder, and commits less turnovers, Lazar is clearly worse?  I could come up with several well reasoned arguments to justify a position that Hayward is better than Monroe, but that's not the point.  Again, the point is that there is a strong enough case to be made that Lazar is at least as good as Monroe.

Monroe has the better long term future.  We are definitely comparing a freshman with a junior.  But potential matters for exactly zero when it comes to production on the court.

I could also point out that Greg's stats came against a significantly tougher schedule than hayward's. SOS 5 vs. 45.

and on a team that finished just barely above 0.500, and 7-11 in conference.

I'm not stupid enough to think I'm going to come onto another fan bases message board and convince them their player isn't as good as mine.

Then what exactly was your intent?  To be patronizing with a perspective of "Hayward isn't as good as Monroe, but he was probably better than Ebanks"? 

Well... Hayward is as good as Monroe.  Deal with it.
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

hoyasincebirth

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2009, 09:50:46 AM »
Not going to debate Monroe vs. Hayward anymore. Just going to express my difference of opinion on several of your points.
1) Everyone and everything is subjective technically so you can never really look at anything objectively
2)Georgetown was not one of the best teams last year, but this award is about next year, where we will be one of the best teams. Georgetown will finish in the top 4. Last year we were young and didn't have any experience playing together for the most part. You were one of the best teams last year, and this year will be one of the worst.( 10-15)
3)He was barely more efficient 3pts, not exactly a slam dunk. Not even sure how that's calculated because greg had a better FG% and a beter Ast/TO ratio. I assume it's cause Hayward is a better 3pt shooter and did better at the line.
4) Greg committed more total turnovers but he has a better ast/to ratio the point is you can't look at total TOs because greg had more opppertunity to pick them up since he played point forward. For example Player A over a season has 30 ast and 10 TO that's a 3:1 ratio player B has 5 ast and 8 TOs yeah player A has more turnovers but to point that out as a negative is stupid when player B turned the ball over more than he made an assist.  
5) how does how well we did against the tougher schedule disprove my point. It's easier to put up better stats against weaker teams.
6) picking preseason All Conference teams has everything to do with potential as well as past production. That's why Kemba Walker is on the team, his production last year wasn't All big east worthy, but it's assumed that with an extra year and more playing time with out price that his stats will imporve and he'll be an all big east player.
7) We're basically comparing apples and oranges, but my point has been that Greg has more skills is good at more things and that more skills is better than just being good at 2 things.
8) I was never trying to say Greg is light years better than Hayward, just that most people would agree he is better. Hayward is very good at what he does. Greg is very good at what he does. What greg does is just more than what Hayward does.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 11:52:37 AM by hoyasincebirth »

Henry Sugar

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2009, 10:20:01 AM »
I'm not stupid enough to think I'm going to come onto another fan bases message board and convince them their player isn't as good as mine.

Hayward is just as good as Monroe.
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Skatastrophy

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2009, 10:25:40 AM »
He was barely more efficient 3pts, not exactly a slam dunk. Not even sure how that's calculated because greg had a better FG% and a beter Ast/TO ratio.

Edited:  I was way off base on my explanation.  I'll sit back and eat my popcorn for the remainder of the thread  :P
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 10:57:19 AM by Skatastrophy »

mugrad99

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I see Hoya fan slept on it and decided to come back for more beatdown
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 10:37:13 AM »
Hoya states: 7) We're basically carrying apples and oranges, but my point has been that Greg has more skills is good at more things and that more skills is better than just being good at 2 things

Of course, those two things that Hayward is better at is Scoring and Rebounding

Then he states: 2)Georgetown was not one of the best teams last year, but this award is about next year, where we will be one of the best teams. Georgetown will finish in the top 4. Last year we were young and didn't have any experience playing together for the most part. You were one of the best teams last year, and this year will be one of the worst.( 10-15)

Pure conjecture. I thought this was an objective argument.

LON

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 10:51:24 AM »
Not going to debate Monroe vs. Hayward anymore. Just going to express my difference of opinion on several of your points.
1) Everyone and everything is subjective technically so you can never really look at anything objectively
2)Georgetown was not one of the best teams last year, but this award is about next year, where we will be one of the best teams. Georgetown will finish in the top 4. Last year we were young and didn't have any experience playing together for the most part. You were one of the best teams last year, and this year will be one of the worst.( 10-15)
3)He was barely more efficient 3pts, not exactly a slam dunk. Not even sure how that's calculated because greg had a better FG% and a beter Ast/TO ratio. I assume it's cause Hayward is a better 3pt shooter and did better at the line.
4) Greg committed more total turnovers but he has a better ast/to ratio the point is you can't look at total TOs because greg had more opppertunity to pick them up since he played point forward. For example Player A over a season has 30 ast and 10 TO that's a 3:1 ratio player B has 5 ast and 8 TOs yeah player A has more turnovers but to point that out as a negative is stupid when player B turned the ball over more than he made an assist. 
5) how does how well we did against the tougher schedule disprove my point. It's easier to put up better stats against weaker teams.
6) picking preseason All Conference teams has everything to do with potential as well as past production. That's why Kemba Walker is on the team, his production last year wasn't All big east worthy, but it's assumed that with an extra year and more playing time with out price that his stats will imporve and he'll be an all big east player.
7) We're basically carrying apples and oranges, but my point has been that Greg has more skills is good at more things and that more skills is better than just being good at 2 things.
8) I was never trying to say Greg is light years better than Hayward, just that most people would agree he is better. Hayward is very good at what he does. Greg is very good at what he does. What greg does is just more than what Hayward does.


If I'm not mistaken, weren't you picked to be one of the better teams last year?  What makes you so confident?

Henry Sugar

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Re: I see Hoya fan slept on it and decided to come back for more beatdown
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 11:05:18 AM »
Hoya states: 7) We're basically carrying apples and oranges, but my point has been that Greg has more skills is good at more things and that more skills is better than just being good at 2 three things

Of course, those two three things that Hayward is better at are Scoring, Rebounding, and not Turning the ball over.


But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

hoyasincebirth

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 12:12:40 PM »
I talked about the turning the ball over. Hayward is really not better at not turning over the ball.
TOs are really only imporatant as a part of Ast/TO ratio. Greg's is positive(barely 79/77). Hayward's is substantially negative(39/65). Hayward turns the ball over more than he helps his team.

You're entitled to your opinion, so i'm going to let this go.

But we are Comparing apples to oranges, they're different types of players. It's a subjective argument which player is better. I Just happen to have every single basketball expert  and NBA scout my side.

Georgetown will be much improved this year, because we have experience this year that we were sorely lacking.We had the talent last year, but we made bad decisions and didn't have the on the court chemistry necessary for our offense to focus. Coach and experts beleive we have put those issues behind us.  Enjoy switching places with us this year.

Henry Sugar

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 12:30:58 PM »
I'm not stupid enough to think I'm going to come onto another fan bases message board and convince them their player isn't as good as mine.

re: turnovers... bullsh*t they're only important in an assist/turnover ratio.  A turnover ends a possession.  Period.  Hayward handles the ball more often that Monroe and turns it over to the opponent less. 

Hayward is just as good as Monroe this year. 

Feel free to take your patronizing elsewhere.
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4everwarriors

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 12:37:22 PM »
My money is on Rob to pee longer and stronger than the hoya dude.
Go wizzer, go.
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IAmMarquette

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Media updates from around the interwebs
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2009, 01:38:11 PM »
I talked about the turning the ball over. Hayward is really not better at not turning over the ball.
TOs are really only imporatant as a part of Ast/TO ratio. Greg's is positive(barely 79/77). Hayward's is substantially negative(39/65). Hayward turns the ball over more than he helps his team.

You're entitled to your opinion, so i'm going to let this go.

But we are Comparing apples to oranges, they're different types of players. It's a subjective argument which player is better. I Just happen to have every single basketball expert  and NBA scout my side.

Georgetown will be much improved this year, because we have experience this year that we were sorely lacking.We had the talent last year, but we made bad decisions and didn't have the on the court chemistry necessary for our offense to focus. Coach and experts beleive we have put those issues behind us.  Enjoy switching places with us this year.




Jay Bee, is that you?!?!