Kevin O'Neill hired at USC

[mviale]

Can you document these personal flaws of Crean's you refer to?  I keep hearing about these numerous "personal flaws" that Crean supposedly has.  Yet nobody ever seems to state what they are.  

Oh, we hear about his tan quite a bit.  And that he was a "self-promoter."  And the rumored altercation with a Louisville fan (as reported by UL fans, but accepted as fact). Let's not leave out and Hayward's trumped up summer camp story (a charge rendered meaningless by the fact that he sent his kids anyway).

Nobody's ever been able to cite anything terribly damaging with any specifics--certainly nothing as damaging to Marquette as O'Neill's departure for a 2nd rate Tennessee program and then the verbal shot he took at MU as he left.
 

Please document KO's flaws too?  Is this one?  Poor Indiana.
During his tenure as the Northwestern coach O'Neill is most notably remembered for a game with Indiana where the rowdy Northwestern faithful chanted "Who's your Daddy?" at opposing coach Bob Knight. Of course this did not sit well with Knight as he and O'Neill got into it during the contest. However all was settled under a practice gym basket well after the game as ESPN camera crews caught the coaches talking their issues out.

[4everwarriors]

KO was brutally honest. Always opinionated and and is not in it to win a popularity contest. No hidden agenda. He's also a very good defensive coach. Crean, the dickhead on the other hand, is as phony as a 3 dollar bill. He's never believable and uses people for his own personal gain. He thinks he's fooling people, but really not smart enough to pull it off.

[Lennys Tap]

If Shakespeare wrote it KO would be the tragically flawed hero (Othello) and TC would be the small, meddlesome, self-centered villian (Iago). No doubt that KO's lack of self control has caused damage in both his personal and professional life. TC, on the other hand, is a master of self control. He is as consistant in fostering relationships with those who can prove useful as he is in belittling those he deems inconsequential.

KO made you shake your head and wonder what might have been, but you always knew who he was. TC was a master of the con, but eventually you found out who he was too.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So for TC wins, graduation rates and players avoiding the police blotter are all that matters. His "personal flaws" are immaterial when discussing his legacy. But for KO his "personal flaws" are tantamount and define his tenure. Interesting.

Please tell me you are joking....the difference between the two's behavior off the court was night and day. Crean's personal flaws are a 3 vs KO's as a 10 if you knew anything about the situation.  And they didn't stop at MU but continued on elsewhere.  Do you think just maybe there was a reason he's had so many jobs in his basketball career?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh no, sounds like KO is giving the "coach speak" about what a great job USC is (just like every coach does, Crean or whomever).

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062009aac.html

[Marquette84]

. No doubt that KO's lack of self control has caused damage in both his personal and professional life. TC, on the other hand, is a master of self control. He is as consistant in fostering relationships with those who can prove useful as he is in belittling those he deems inconsequential.

KO made you shake your head and wonder what might have been, but you always knew who he was. TC was a master of the con, but eventually you found out who he was too.

So, apparently, your argument rests on the fact that O'Neill was an ass to everyone he came across, while Crean was an ass only to those who deserved it? 

But more to the point, once again I ask for examples, and I get more undocumented generalities.  Any examples of the "belittling of the inconsequential" you refer to?  Do any of these alleged acts of belittling even come close to the public comments O'Neill made dissing MU and its fan base as he left town? 

[bma725]

How?  One guy treated people like crap, thought he was bigger than the school and its traditions.  Another acted like a frat boy and trashed a few hotel rooms.  Seems to me that both are bad but TC's are always written off as CEO behavior.

Both treated people like crap and thought they were bigger than the school and it's traditions.  If you think KO was any different than TC in that regard then you've lost your mind.  In fact KO treated many people far worse than Crean ever did. 

You can write it off as frat boy behavior, but there is a very large difference between giving your son an award at a basketball camp and cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student...especially when you are a public figure at a Catholic university.

[Golden Avalanche]

You can write it off as frat boy behavior, but there is a very large difference between giving your son an award at a basketball camp and cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student...especially when you are a public figure at a Catholic university.

That just might be the knockout punch.

[Lennys Tap]

So, apparently, your argument rests on the fact that O'Neill was an ass to everyone he came across, while Crean was an ass only to those who deserved it? 

But more to the point, once again I ask for examples, and I get more undocumented generalities.  Any examples of the "belittling of the inconsequential" you refer to?  Do any of these alleged acts of belittling even come close to the public comments O'Neill made dissing MU and its fan base as he left town? 

That you can suggest that my post suggests that TC "was an ass only to those that deserve it" shows either a staggering lack of comprehension on your part or an agreement with the philosophy that people we can't use deserve our contempt.

My examples come from people who have had the "pleasure" of dealing with TC over the years. They include, but are not limited to, high school coaches, MU alumni, staff and a doctor or two. They paint the picture of an arrogant user of people whose first, second and third concern is Tom Crean.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm surprised at the outrage of some people when it comes to a coach's personality. Quite often, coaches have a huge ego, a rough temperament, are super demanding of their team and employees, have personal or family issues outside of the job, possibly drink, etc.

None of this stuff is new, yet I feel like some of you guys feel so shocked and outraged when you find out that the coach is really an ass. (example: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14925.msg139167#msg139167)

I've got news for you, most successful coaches are asses (at least some of the time), self-promoters, hard nosed, hard working, cocky SOBs.

It's takes an extremely big personality to make it in college hoops.

- Was Kevin Oneil an ass? Probably. (speculation because I don't actually know him).

- Was it ok that he was an ass because at least he was an ass to EVERYBODY? No. It is not ok to be an ass just because you are "up front with it".


- Was Tom Crean an ass? Yep, probably in a lot of cases.

- Was it ok that Tom Crean was a great ass kisser in public and a hard ass in private? Nope. That doesn't make it ok


However, to claim that KO is a better guy because "he is real" is asinine. Coaches in EVERY sport are putting on an act most of the time. Do you think any coach likes kissing up to the crusty old alumni at any school? Do you think coaches enjoy kissing an AAU coach's ass in order to gain favor with a player?

Get real.

These guy are paid to win games, graduate players, and represent the university well. They are not paid to be your personal hero.

Get over it.

COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS! (some rough language in here, so keep the volume down at work)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY


EDIT: Grammar

[ChicosBailBonds]

That you can suggest that my post suggests that TC "was an ass only to those that deserve it" shows either a staggering lack of comprehension on your part or an agreement with the philosophy that people we can't use deserve our contempt.

My examples come from people who have had the "pleasure" of dealing with TC over the years. They include, but are not limited to, high school coaches, MU alumni, staff and a doctor or two. They paint the picture of an arrogant user of people whose first, second and third concern is Tom Crean.

Again, you're talking about a person's arrogance vs another coach's ACTIONS that were deplorable, especially as the most recognized representative of the university.  What is wrong with you people.  This isn't a shades of gray issue, this is night and day differences.

[GGGG]

Thank you 2002alum.  That is 100% dead on. 

Since Al, probably the nicest coaches that we have had at MU have been Hank Raymonds and Bob Dukiet.  Raymond's tenure is largely considered to be a disappointment, and Dukiet's a failure.  I am not saying that nice guys can't be good coaches, but we judge our coaches by winning, graduating players and staying out of trouble on the recruiting trail.

Do I care that TC was an ass to a few coaches and MU staff members?  I guess....but I care a lot more that he won while he was here and graduated his players.

[Warrior of Law]

As a bona fide KO apologist, who was not attending MU during the period of 1989-1994, what are the allegations leveled against KO in terms of inappropriate behavior?  I know he swore frequently, but I'm willing to overlook that.

[SCdem@MU]

As a bona fide KO apologist, who was not attending MU during the period of 1989-1994, what are the allegations leveled against KO in terms of inappropriate behavior?  I know he swore frequently, but I'm willing to overlook that.

I would like to see this as well. Gregg Doyel of CBSSports and some people on this board make it seem like Kevin O'Neill is worse than Satan, but nobody seems to offer any proof of his supposed evil deeds.


Here is the hit piece that Doyel wrote:

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11877087

This is probably too much honesty, but here you go: I decided weeks ago to like the next basketball coach at Southern California. No matter what, I was going to like the guy. After disliking Henry Bibby for being a jerk and seeming shady, and after loathing Rick Majerus for being a horrible human being away from the TV cameras, and after coming close to hating Tim Floyd for being as scummy as the bottom of a dormitory toilet, I was going to like the next guy. Whoever he was.

Reggie Theus? Actually I know him, and love him. Lon Kruger? Know him, and like him very much. Jeff Van Gundy? Don't know him, but what the hell. I'll give him a chance. I'm sick of hating on USC, so, sure. Jeff Van Gundy would have been fine.

Basically, USC could have hired anybody other than, well, let's pull out a ridiculous name. USC could have hired anybody but Kevin O'Neill, and I was going to like it, whether I liked it or not.

But I'll be damned. USC hired Kevin O'Neill.

Which is a relief, honestly. Having to fake it, having to embrace cadaver-like Jeff Van Gundy, was going to be hard. I was going to do it, but -- wow. Would have been hard.

•  USC hires O'Neill | Parrish: O'Neill back in Pac-10? Really

Faking it with Kevin O'Neill? Acting like I like this hire? Can't do it. Kevin Spacey couldn't do it. Laurence Olivier couldn't do it, and he's deader than Jeff Van Gundy.

In a moment we'll get to some actually insightful stuff, but for now, let me state why I dislike O'Neill. It's not original stuff. You've probably heard this before, although you've not heard the way I'll say it:

Kevin O'Neill is a big, fat meanie.

Show me somebody who meets two criteria -- (1) knows Kevin O'Neill and (2) claims to like Kevin O'Neill -- and I'll show you a liar. Or an actor on the level of Kevin Spacey. Maybe even Laurence Olivier. It's possible that a dead man could like Kevin O'Neill, but it would have to be one stupid dead man. Like the stiff from Weekend at Bernie's. Maybe he likes Kevin O'Neill.

He'd be the first.

Everyone knows that everyone hates Kevin O'Neill, and I can promise you it doesn't hurt O'Neill's feelings. He conducts himself in a way that says, You will hate me, or my name isn't Kevin O'Neill. He wants your hate. He feeds off it. He insults players and staffers. He has the Buck Showalter Syndrome of thinking he invented the game. He's volatile in a way that would frighten even volatile people. His NBA coaching career died long ago, but stories of his temper tantrums -- in locker rooms, in hotel rooms -- live on. To know Kevin O'Neill is to hate him.

And still, USC hired him.

Which brings me to that insightful stuff I promised earlier:

Hiring Kevin O'Neill confirms just how much trouble the USC basketball program was in -- and still is in -- thanks to the Trojans' previous coach. Scummy Tim Floyd resigned amid an NCAA investigation into his scummy dealings with scummy O.J. Mayo and the scummy losers who were hanging around Mayo back when he was a high school senior.

Even with a brand-new facility and the plummeting stock of longtime Pac-10 bully Arizona (thanks in part to Kevin O'Neill!), the Trojans couldn't give this job away to a real candidate. Why? Because the Trojans must be in deep, deep doo-doo with the NCAA.

Whatever USC told its first two or three or 14 choices about the NCAA investigation, it was bad. So bad that it scared off all of them. All of them but O'Neill, who will just reinvent the game and have the Trojans winning 20 in no time.

By hiring O'Neill, USC also is dropping to its knees in remorse before the NCAA, which still is looking into the only sport on campus that matters to USC athletics director Mike Garrett, the USC football program. See, Kevin O'Neill is clean. He's not a cheater. Say what you want about Kevin O'Neill -- but don't say that only a stupid dead man could like him; that's piling on -- but you can't say he's dirty. You know what he is? He's Bob Knight Lite. Big jerk. But a big, clean jerk. Hiring O'Neill lets the NCAA know that your school is serious (finally) about having a clean basketball program.

Not that having a clean basketball program matters at USC. It doesn't. The basketball program at USC is something to be pitied, because it suffers from awful neglect. Hiring Bibby was neglectful. Trying to hire Majerus was neglectful. Tim Floyd? Awful. Mike Garrett simply didn't care. His baby is the football team. Think about it: USC basketball will go into the 2009-10 season with the guy who couldn't cut it as the interim coach at Pac-10 rival Arizona. That's some neglectful parenting right there -- like having a fat kid and feeding him Little Debbies all day long. It's so wrong, it's cruel.

Mike Garrett doesn't get it, but neglectful parents never do. After hiring O'Neill, Garrett took the time to get his explanatory statement right. He put out a news release with a comment, meaning he knew the question before he had to give the answer. And still he whiffed. Garrett said he picked O'Neill because, and I quote, "He stresses defense, and I've always believed defense wins championships."

The defending champion in college basketball is North Carolina. Guess where North Carolina was ranked last season in defense?

No. 275.

Really good high school recruits don't pick a school because they want to play defense. They pick a school because they want to score. They pick a school because they like the offense, and because they like the head coach.

Which means they'll have to find a new reason to pick Southern California.

Because nobody likes Kevin O'Neill.

[lurch91]

cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student....

I don't know if the allegations are a one time occurrence, multiple occurrences with the same co-ed, or multiple occurrences with different co-eds.

[lurch91]

Quick question, wasn't TC the best man at KO's wedding or vice versa?  Thus indicating they're pretty darn good friends?

[ChicosBailBonds]

SC, he's not worse than Satan.  But his actions, most of which should not be discussed here in detail, are not appropriate for the most visible person at a university, especially a Jesuit Catholic university.  He made a number of very poor choices in the public sphere that can come back to bite a university, especially at a place like MU.

He didn't cheat at basketball or recruiting, most of his kids graduated, he won more than he lost (until he went to other schools) and he did a good job keeping MU on the map.  For that we should tip our hat to him.

Beyond that, MU deserves better than having to worry about the coach's behavior 24/7 and whether it ends up biting the university in some way.  It's hard enough to worry about 12 young men aged 18-23, you shouldn't have to worry about the coach, too.

There's a reason why he's bounced around.  There's a reason why people like Eustachy, etc and their behaviors aren't tolerated.  Thank God the internet wasn't what it is now back in 1989-1994, that's where I'm going to leave it.  Hopefully he's toned things down considerably, though here in L.A. 99% of the people wouldn't be able to identify the USC basketball coach if he was wearing a t-shirt saying he was the USC Basketball coach.

[Shack]

So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties?           (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)

[dsfire]

Not to disagree with that Sportsline article on the whole (even though it doesn't seem to offer any justification for the KO-hate other than temper tantrums) - or even on the specific point that kids don't pick colleges based upon their defense - but to claim UNC was 275th in defense last year shows an incredible fundamental misunderstanding of basketball for someone who's presumably paid to write about the subject. 

[LON]

Not to disagree with that Sportsline article on the whole (even though it doesn't seem to offer any justification for the KO-hate other than temper tantrums) - or even on the specific point that kids don't pick colleges based upon their defense - but to claim UNC was 275th in defense last year shows an incredible fundamental misunderstanding of basketball for someone who's presumably paid to write about the subject. 

Yeah that line made me wonder too...I'll divert to the "eye-test" for how good UNC's defense was last year over some stat that he dug up to make his point.

So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties?           (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)

I just bought him a beer.

[bma725]

So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties?           (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)

No one said they were hot.

[NotAnAlum]

Chicos, I love that last comment
By the way anyone care to guess what the under will be for the Wash St - USC game.  Could they just agree the first one to 20 wins.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

No one said they were hot.

I applaud him for attempting to build the self-esteem of a less-than-attractive Marquette undergrad.

[PJDunn]

My question is...are there any "attractive" options at Marquette?  Unless my 4 years were an anomaly, the attractive options were few and far between.  At USC on the other hand...

[LON]

My question is...are there any "attractive" options at Marquette?  Unless my 4 years were an anomaly, the attractive options were few and far between.  At USC on the other hand...

It's LA, the 5's in LA are 10's in the Midwest...after visiting LA a few times I can say this is a fact.  But, it still doesn't make it anything less than a chore to engage in any sort of conversation with them.

But, I'd like to see the track records of all the posters that claim there aren't hot chicks at MU.  Those dudes must be pulling in some boy-band tail...