Trevor Powell---Where is he now?

[bma725]

Once again you overestimate how popular the hatred of Crean is.  The common fan loved the guy and for the most part still does because of what the team did on the court. 

They don't read the message boards, they don't talk to players/AD staff, they don't know about the camp incident or housecreaning or Diener's injury...and quite honestly they don't give a crap about any of that.  They see a guy that seemed like a nice person on TV and delivered a winning product, so they like him and not much is going to change that.  Even those bitter about him leaving with forgive him rather easily if Buzz keeps winning.

There's just never been and likely never will be this widespread hatred of the man like you hope for.

[The Lens]

Second, knowing that he left no strong recruiting pipeline in place, O'Neill recommends that we hire his buddy Deane--the worst recruiter in MU history.  At worst, he intentionally recommended a poor recruiter ensure that his success looks like a fluke that cant' be recreated.  At best, he's an idiot for recommending such a poor recruiter to come into a job where there was no strong recruiting base established, and no strong ties to any talent hotbed.  

Actually KO told Cords he would be an absolute idiot to not get in his car immediately and drive to Green Bay to hire Dick Bennett.  And knowing Kevin he probably said it a little more colorful language.

Third, for all your blather about Crean being a dick, O'Neill was no better--whether it was the inability to have a child sit within earshot to his tendency to treat almus like crap at banquets and events to his ripping MU fans about their "unrealistic expectations" or stupid rivalries with Notre Dame and Wisconsin.  And this was his public face!  All of Crean's supposed sins are in private to people who actually deserve it.  

Both were a-holes, however KO knew he was an a-hole while TC thought he was Jesus Christ.  It makes a difference.

[lurch91]

Was oneil's contract really up? Or did he just leave because his contract was extended/raised? I assume he was still actually under contract when he left.

Like most coaches, I believe KO signed a 5 year deal to come to MU, and never signed a contract extension, or a new contract.  He was at MU for 5 years, from 89-94.  The math is pretty simple.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Once again you overestimate how popular the hatred of Crean is.  The common fan loved the guy and for the most part still does because of what the team did on the court. 

They don't read the message boards, they don't talk to players/AD staff, they don't know about the camp incident or housecreaning or Diener's injury...and quite honestly they don't give a crap about any of that.  They see a guy that seemed like a nice person on TV and delivered a winning product, so they like him and not much is going to change that.  Even those bitter about him leaving with forgive him rather easily if Buzz keeps winning.

There's just never been and likely never will be this widespread hatred of the man like you hope for.

Sorry bma -- you seem to be "in the know" when it comes to recruiting, etc. but that hardly makes you the common fan. I am the common fan. I speak to common fans, none of whom come on message boards. I have yet to hear anybody say "I love that guy." Everybody thought he was a phony prick.

[BrewCity83]

housecreaning?

I think I missed that one--anyone care to recap for me?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There is no way people will remember Crean fondly. The difference between he and O'Neill - as somebody correctly pointed out - was that KO wasn't an absolute phony. He was who he was. I actually believe even those who back Crean would secretly acknowledge he remains a loathsome person. O'Neill might have been prickly, but he was funny as hell. Crean has none of that. He's just a jerk. Even the employees at the Bradley Center hated him AND Joanie. I have first hand knowledge of that. And we've heard about basketball camp. THere were hundreds of MU alums in attendance!

I also 100 percent believe that SJS is either a family member, former neighbor or some other associate waging a pathetic rehabilitation campaign which is actually causing more harm than good.

Literally, the only chance Crean has at rehabbing his image within the next 10 years -- if ever -- is if there was a coordinated movement by former players. And I don't believe that's going to happen. We will find out in 2013, that's for sure. I hope he shows his face at a reunion where he will absolutely get booed out of the building.

By the way, there are many guys who transferred from Marquette who would be welcomed with open arms. So does Majerus, who quit. I would wager Mike Deane would get a rousing ovation from MU faithful.

It's not MU fans. It's Crean.

Ehhh (shrug)... I don't agree with you at all.

But, that's ok, we can agree to disagree, it's all just speculation anyways.

As far as the SJS thing... I think you should quit that stuff... The guy is just posting his opinions and theories. If you hate his writing so much, just ignore it. If you think he's factually wrong, dispute it with evidence. I don't think posting that he is a member of the "Crean Clan" is really doing anything.

[bma725]

Sorry bma -- you seem to be "in the know" when it comes to recruiting, etc. but that hardly makes you the common fan. I am the common fan. I speak to common fans, none of whom come on message boards. I have yet to hear anybody say "I love that guy." Everybody thought he was a phony prick.

No, everybody didn't think he was a phony prick.  Most people don't know enough to even think he was phony.  I know plenty of people who still want him as the coach to this day and continue to support him at IU.  Hell I know people that stopped giving money to the Blue and Gold fund because they felt the university didn't do enough to keep Crean. 

Your opinion of what people think about him is skewed by your hatred of him.  Most people don't know the bad side of him at all.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Well, I have my opinion and it was shared by pretty much anybody who saw him speak at the Union League Club in Chicago, every person I attended MU with who has an interest in the BB team, my in-laws, friends of family members that attended MU in years other than myself and nearly everybody in my section at games.

And anybody who doesn't donate to the B&G Fund because Crean is gone is a horse's ass. It's reason to up your donation.

And to 2002 -- SJS was his former screen name. What's wrong with using that? And I do think he's somehow assocated with Crean. In fact, he has to be. I'm just being honest. Other posters have asked me in PMs about it. I don't know for a fact, but I'm 99 percent positive he is.

[4everwarriors]

I, for one, will never miss the phony prick and I've been consistent for the past 6 years concerning the now departed. In fact, I thank IU every day for getting him away from Marquette University. I would have paid Sampson's phone bill if it meant Crean would have left us earlier.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well, I have my opinion and it was shared by pretty much anybody who saw him speak at the Union League Club in Chicago, every person I attended MU with who has an interest in the BB team, my in-laws, friends of family members that attended MU in years other than myself and nearly everybody in my section at games.

And anybody who doesn't donate to the B&G Fund because Crean is gone is a horse's ass. It's reason to up your donation.

And to 2002 -- SJS was his former screen name. What's wrong with using that? And I do think he's somehow assocated with Crean. In fact, he has to be. I'm just being honest. Other posters have asked me in PMs about it. I don't know for a fact, but I'm 99 percent positive he is.

I wasn't talking about the screenname stuff... that's fine. I just think the accusations and minor witch-hunt to prove that he somehow is Joanie Crean is tiresome. But, whatever, I guess that's between you and him.

I didn't see Tom Crean at the Union League club, nor did I take a straw poll like you did. I'm just trying to illustrate that history often portrays people in a fonder light that they were originally thought of.

I bet you can't find a single soul around now who would dare say a bad word about McGuire. However, back in the day, I bet there were some detractors that didn't like him or his style. Same for Oneil. Same for Rick.

Wounds heal. People remember the highs and forget some of the lows.

I know you disagree, and that's cool. You have your well thought out, rational opinions. I have mine.

*Please note: I'm not comparing Crean to Al (don't go down that path), I'm just using Al for a historical perspective on how people are remembered more fondly years later.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Referencing Joanie is clearly an ugly joke -- extremely ugly, almost mannish in nature -- but I do believe he's gone so far beyond defense of Crean's record that he can't hide that there's a connection somewhere. It's just undeniable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And to 2002 -- SJS was his former screen name. What's wrong with using that? And I do think he's somehow assocated with Crean. In fact, he has to be. I'm just being honest. Other posters have asked me in PMs about it. I don't know for a fact, but I'm 99 percent positive he is.

You're incorrect, he isn't associated with Crean at all. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll take the middle ground on this one.  Overall, I think O'Neill did a pretty nice job for Marquette and helped get us started on the road back to respectability.  But, I only had one in-person experience with O'Neill (at a MU club lunch or some similar)...and he really was a jerk to me.

Much of what 84 says is dead on.  KO did a good job in keeping us relevant by recruiting Mac, Key, Logterman and Miller.  But he publiclly pissed on MU constantly, he left MU for Tennessee (you guys that are pissed at Crean for leaving for one of the top 5 programs of ALL-TIME when KO left for a FOOTBALL school that is known secondly for HOOPs....WOMEN'S HOOPS!!!!!).  His antics at the bars in town, how he treated his marriage, etc were bad news (those in the know can confirm....totally unacceptable as a public figure and representative of MU...TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE).

I'm glad he kept us relevant during his 5 year stint, he worked his butt off, but there is a REASON why he has lasted only a few years at every stop since MU.  That is not by coincidence, but rather because of his actions.  Not a surprise whatsoever that Hayward is drawn to him like a siren song.

[MR.HAYWARD]

2002 I do not disagree with you on the whole "time heals wounds"  in fact I absolutely agree with you.

 but I disagree that the reason people "like" Oneill is becuase it hase been 15 years.  No, I think most people simply liked Oneill, was he a jack ass of course but you knew what you were getting.  i sat 1 row behind the bench a number of times with small children and marvelled at his ability to fit that many F words into one sentence.  He was boorish and edgy but he got it done and he was what he was. I think people might not invite him to their daughters confirmation but they respected what he was and what he accomplished and that he was who he was.

Crean on the other hand made excuses for everything , was prone to go on witch hunts after people and pulled some of the most amazing things i have ever witnessed.  he is aman of very low character and an inferiority complex to match anything I have ever seen.   ten years does not change that and i agree with PRN most people even casually associated with the team, ie the causal fan did not like the guy, they respected 5 tourneys in 9 years with about as much respect it deserves.  they also saw the annual flameouts, the Western Michigan gmaes etc.  I talk with hundreds of MU fans and they universally disliked him long before last April.  Even more telling is to talk to people from ND, Louisville, Cincy, UW  that all dislike him for a reason. they respect GTIII, they respect Pitiono, they respect BREy, or Bo....they despise Crean as a prick.

My wife is an MU fan goes to many games watches them on TV etc. But is the pure casual fan has no problems going to the bars and having fun with friends after a Reece Gaines 3 beats MU while I am distraught.  etc.  She is the casual fan   She had no problems with Oneill was happy Mu was being successful and took his language as "that is what coaches do".   She hated Crean...Womens intuition, thought he was an ugly snake, the basketball camp put her over the top from loathing to sheer disrespect,  She meets Buzz 2 weeks into the job when he comes up to her and introduces himself, 15 minutes later after their 1 on 1 conversation comes over to me and "syas I really like him".  and it aint cause Buzz charmed her 3 out of 4 times after a convo like that with someone she will say that person is a loser.    Womens intuition.

Oneill will be remebered as a surly winner  in 10 20 50 years.

Crean will be remebered as a successful self promoter and a zero character prick of a person 10 20 50 years later

they both left for other jobs

Buzz will be remebered as a man of great character...success TBD...and he will most likely leave and work somewhere else at some point.


But let us not forget Marquette 84 actually stated that Dukiet was abetter coach than Oneill.  that plus the recruiting theory calls for a straight jacket.

[ChicosBailBonds]

KO took us from damn near division 2 level to the sweet 16.  For that I will always hold him in high regard.  On a personal level I would take his honesty (sometimes brutally honest and maybe a little too profane) over Mr disingenous.  That being said, although I never liked Crean I do appreciate what he did for the program.

We were bad, but not that bad.   Let's also not forget that Wisconsin-Madison was an absolute freaking JOKE during that time....54 straight years of no NCAA apperances.  We were the only program in the state by and large, that helped tremendously in getting MacIlvaine, Key and Logtermann.   Those times have changed considerably by the time Deane and Crean came in.  We were no longer a monopoly in basketball.

O'Neill did some nice things for the program, he also was a brutal representative off the court in many ways.  There's a reason why KO never made it to a It's Indiana, It's Indiana destination but instead at Tennessee, Northwestern and a one year cluster screw at Arizona (as well as his hopping from one NBA destination to another).  He doesn't get that little thing called BEHAVIOUR in public and how to treat people appropriately. 

For all the people that supposedly hate Crean, I find it amazing how he keeps coming up so positively in the press from Doc Rivers to Doug Melvin to fill in your choice of names.   Crean is an SOB like most of them, but I never saw that kind of love or respect for KO from other folks in the industry and outside of it.  In fact, the Crean detractors almost uniformly come from a group of about 50 people of which 60% of them are on this board. 

The vast number of Milwaukee fans will remember him for taking a school that had ONE (ONE!!!!) Sweet 16 apperance in 25 years to a NCAA Final Four.  They will remember him bringing in NBA players Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Travis Diener and potential NBA players in Wesley Matthews, Jerel McNeal, Dominic James and Lazar Hayward.  They will remember sold out games, going to the Big East, going to the NCAAs consistently, no NCAA infraction issues, no police blotter issues, damn near perfect graduation rates.   That's what most will remember.  Yeah, he could be a prick, but he didn't crap on the university (KO did), he wasn't publicly cheating on his wife with MU coeds, he wasn't out publicly drunk constantly at various Milwaukee bars for all to see.  But yes, he was a self promoter....damn, what a sin.   

[MR.HAYWARD]

Referencing Joanie is clearly an ugly joke -- extremely ugly, almost mannish in nature -- but I do believe he's gone so far beyond defense of Crean's record that he can't hide that there's a connection somewhere. It's just undeniable.

jim harbaugh with tits

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Oneill will be remebered as a surly winner  in 10 20 50 years.

Crean will be remebered as a successful self promoter and a zero character prick of a person 10 20 50 years later

I'm just not so sure about that.

I know there are some people that hate Crean as much as you do, but I'm not sure that it's the majority like you think. However, to be fair, I don't have any statistics or surveys to go off of, I'm just going off my own opinion of the MU fanbase. I guess you could be right, but I just don't think so.

We're both just stating opinions, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As far as the Jim harbaugh comment in this thread... that's weaksauce. We're just stating opinions around here (about a coaches legacy)... no need to post things about a former coach's wife.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm just not so sure about that.

I know there are some people that hate Crean as much as you do, but I'm not sure that it's the majority like you think. However, to be fair, I don't have any statistics or surveys to go off of, I'm just going off my own opinion of the MU fanbase. I guess you could be right, but I just don't think so.

We're both just stating opinions, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As far as the Jim harbaugh comment in this thread... that's weaksauce. We're just stating opinions around here (about a coaches legacy)... no need to post things about a former coach's wife.

Did Hayward really say this?  Good grief.  I don't care how much you hate Crean, he is factually, statistically, whatever criteria you want to use....THE SECOND MOST SUCCESSFULL COACH IN MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY HISTORY.

It's simple.  

If he's going to make an asinine statement like O'Neill will surely be remembered as a winner after 5 years at the helm, two NCAAs, one Sweet 16, and also one of the worst seasons in MU history (10-18 record) then anyone with half a brain (that excludes Hayward) would have to conclude that someone that stuck around for 9 years, went to 5 NCAAs (and in absentia a 6th NCAA team that he left Buzz this past season), went to a Final Four and didn't crap on the university at every turn will also be remembered as a winner.   Only a adolescent would think otherwise.


People wonder why some folks on this board defend Crean.  It's not so much a matter of defending Crean as it is pushing back on the complete fantasy world some folks live in.  Crean was not liked by all and arrogant, but to say he wasn't successful or a winner defies every aspect as sports fans we use to determine success at a place like Marquette.  It's beyond silly some of the remarks.

[MR.HAYWARD]

could be if as your screen name implies you are a 2002 grad then maybe your youth or maybe lack of context as far as other Mu coaches tends for you to look upon him more favorably.  Maybe the recent Mu grads have a better opinion of him.  All i know is i have dozens and dozens of MU grads that I speak to from accross the country and to a person they have dtested the guy for long before 4/2008.  You may even recall the poll in the JS onlineform a few dyas after he left  "glad or sad"  it was about at 50/50.  pretty telling...that half the people were glad he was gone for a guy that supposedly did so much ...  I think what hurt his persona to alot of the causla fans is he acted and promoted himself like he was god's gift to the game.  Yet his flame outs, poor bench coaching , annual contract renegotiotions after flirting with other jobs, and avergae recruiting was obvious to even the most casual observer.  MAny casual fans were not aware of his true personality and lack of character but they soured on the selling of himself as a Superstar when his record reflected more of a middle weight player.  Most realize sans DWdae he would have been working elsewhere long before this year.  I think Bob Huggins summarized it best by referring to him as Tommy Naismith.  so stinking appropriate.


Sorry you did not like the Jim/Joani comment ...truth hurts.   But I think that his borderline gay fascination of football coahes is the reason for his attarction if you cannot F..... bill Parcells why not Jim Harbaugh?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This discussion is about whether the guy would be welcomed back with open arms after a certain amount of time. Hayward simply said no.

Incidentally Chicos, when you make statements about Doug Melvin and Doc Rivers singing his praises -- on top of stories of the guy spreading his legs and growing a tail on top of a gymful of pre-pubescent campers and their parents -- it only strengthens our argument over what a complete ass the guy is and why a TON (is that OK?) of people will boo him with their last breadth.

I'd like to know -- for all you guys (bma, 2002, Chicos) denying this -- what you think the reaction would be to him coming to a game would be?

If so many people love him and stopped donating to the B&G Fund...do you think he'd get cheered at a game? Is it because of how he left? Nobody cares about that. Was it his recruiting? Doubtful? How about the fact that his assistants and incoming freshman more often than not ran out the door like their hair was on fire. Getting closer...

...it's that people generally DON'T LIKE HIM! And it's why he won't be welcome back even after 10 years.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

if you cannot F..... bill Parcells why not Jim Harbaugh?

Hilarious. And actually not as outrageous a theory as some think.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

could be if as your screen name implies you are a 2002 grad then maybe your youth or maybe lack of context as far as other Mu coaches tends for you to look upon him more favorably.  Maybe the recent Mu grads have a better opinion of him.  All i know is i have dozens and dozens of MU grads that I speak to from accross the country and to a person they have dtested the guy for long before 4/2008.  You may even recall the poll in the JS onlineform a few dyas after he left  "glad or sad"  it was about at 50/50.  pretty telling...that half the people were glad he was gone for a guy that supposedly did so much ...  I think what hurt his persona to alot of the causla fans is he acted and promoted himself like he was god's gift to the game.  Yet his flame outs, poor bench coaching , annual contract renegotiotions after flirting with other jobs, and avergae recruiting was obvious to even the most casual observer.  MAny casual fans were not aware of his true personality and lack of character but they soured on the selling of himself as a Superstar when his record reflected more of a middle weight player.  Most realize sans DWdae he would have been working elsewhere long before this year.  I think Bob Huggins summarized it best by referring to him as Tommy Naismith.  so stinking appropriate.


Sorry you did not like the Jim/Joani comment ...truth hurts.   But I think that his borderline gay fascination of football coahes is the reason for his attarction if you cannot F..... bill Parcells why not Jim Harbaugh?

I get it, man.

You and your old friends/colleagues hate Crean. Seriously. I get it. You think most people hate Crean. I get that too.

I haven't said you are definitively wrong, because there is no way of knowing. So let's all just admit that.

I said I didn't agree with your premise, but neither one of us has a accurate poll or stats to back it up. I'm not sure a JS poll within 24 hours of him leaving is a good indicator of how he will be received 10 years from now.

It's all speculation based upon our own point of view, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.


As far as joanie goes, I just don't think it's funny making fun of a coach's wife. Especially in print. I'm sure you wouldn't want people taking shots at your wife for no real reason.

If you want to rip Tom for his lame track suits, go nuts. Ties too long? Yep. Bad haircut? Most of the time. Tanning? Probably twice per week. But Joanie? C'mon man. Leave her out of this.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If a visual of Don Shula enters into the equation, this thread needs to be locked.

[PJDunn]

This is a spectacular thread.  I got a bad vibe from Crean at the CUSA tourney in Memphis and it never changed.  I don't live in Milwaukee, but do have one connection to the program on the medical staff.  Let's just say the docs that work with the program detested the tan one. 

I do agree with Chicos that his tenure was fairly successful on a won/loss perspective and we certainly managed to enter the Big East on a very competitive basis.

[bma725]

If so many people love him and stopped donating to the B&G Fund...do you think he'd get cheered at a game? Is it because of how he left? Nobody cares about that. Was it his recruiting? Doubtful? How about the fact that his assistants and incoming freshman more often than not ran out the door like their hair was on fire. Getting closer...

...it's that people generally DON'T LIKE HIM! And it's why he won't be welcome back even after 10 years.

He will absolutely 100% be cheered when he comes back for some sort of reunion.  People forget the bad things as time goes on.  In a few years, since very few even know about his attitude, very few will even remember it.  Instead they'll remember returning the program to prominence after Deane, they'll remember the C-USA title, the Final Four, the 5 NCAA tournaments in 9 years, Wade, Diener, James, etc.  They'll remember the 2nd most successful coach in the history of this university, and they'll cheer for him.