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Author Topic: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty  (Read 22745 times)

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 01:38:19 PM »
As far as people saying Crean ran people off well they were right.  Where did Jeff Strohm leave for? Dale LAyer took a head coaching job.  hate to see a guy like Layer leave you could see how instrumental he was during games, timeouts, etc.  I also beleive he worked with the big men.  Nevertheless, he is gone and I trust Buzz to bring another very valuable assistant, great job for alot of candidates

GOMU1104

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 01:40:53 PM »
How about you write a post worth something and tell me where I'm wrong. 

Do some research.

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 01:42:10 PM »
Do some research.

I'll take it you're just a flamer then.  Run along or come back with an argument. 

bma725

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 01:45:10 PM »
How about you write a post worth something and tell me where I'm wrong. 

Again, you might want to do some reading before you say things like that.  The top 3 uncommitted players in Illinois all have not named a leader and list MU among their current choices.  The top 5 players are already committed to other schools, including guys like Richmond and Head who committed before Crean even left for IU.  The top two players in Illinois in 2011 haven't named leaders yet, both have MU on their list.

No one is holding any company line here, we've just actually read about what is happening rather than spouting off without any actual knowledge.


GOMU1104

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 01:51:20 PM »
I'll take it you're just a flamer then.  Run along or come back with an argument. 


You have no knowledge of MU's recruiting efforts in Chicago, and come on here jumping up and down about how Tony Benford hasn't had any success in Chicago....but yet I'M the flamer??


As BMA said...do some reading/research, then come back and write something worth everyone's time.

bma725

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2009, 01:55:32 PM »
You might want to rethink your opinion of Howard as a Chicago recruiting stud, given that he hasn't actually got anyone from Chicago yet.

Richardson is from Peoria.  Paul is from Gurnee.  Bertrand is from Sterling.  Leonard is from Robinson.  None of those guys are Chicago kids.  Head was going to UofI no matter what.  Richmond committed when Jerrance was still at Texas A&M.  

http://blogs.suntimes.com/lockerroom/2007/09/public_concern_for_jerrance_ho_1.html

Quote
Illini Nation is overjoyed with Illinois basketball coach Bruce Weber's decision to hire former Illini point guard Jerrance Howard as his new assistant coach, replacing Tracy Webster. Howard is loyal and popular, young and energetic, and has the endorsements of several former players and two well-known AAU coaches who are based in the Chicago area.

But can he recruit Chicago? Can he succeed where Illinois has failed in the past? Can a Peoria product who admits to having no recruiting experience accomplish what former Illini assistants Tony Yates and Jimmy Collins and former Illinois coach Bill Self did in a short period of time? Public League coaches are skeptical. In fact, they are outraged by Weber's choice.

"Who is Jerrance Howard? He has no credibility and no stripes in Chicago. He'll get no rhythm in Chicago, no love," one coach said. "The fact that he is black and played at Illinois cuts no mustard up here. It's all about disrespecting Chicago."

Another coach said Howard's hiring is a slap in the face to Chicago. "We have no clue who (Howard) is. Now (Weber) has two Peoria people (the other is former Peoria Manual coach Wayne McClain) on his staff and nobody from Chicago. It makes no sense," he said.

In selecting Howard, who backed up Frank Williams, Deron Williams and Dee Brown at Illinois and has served on Billy Gillespie's staffs at Texas A&M and Kentucky for the last three years, Public League coaches arge that Weber overlooked several candidates with Chicago roots.

Former Whitney Young star Dennis Gates, now an assistant at Northern Illinois, said he wasn't interested in the job, that he wanted to stay at NIU. But Public League coaches said there were others who have solid credentials and their respect, including Illinois State assistant Paris Parham, Chicago State assistant Jamie Farr, Simeon coach Robert Smith, former Illinois stars Kenny Battle and Bryant Notree.

Larry Butler, director of the Illinois Warriors AAU program, told the Champaign News-Gazette that Howard, who once played for Butler, "will be unheralded in terms of getting recruits out of Chicago for Illinois."

"Butler has no pop in Chicago, only Downstate," one coach said.

Mike Mullins, director of the Illinois Wolves program, told the Champaign News-Gazette that it was important for Weber to find someone who was loyal and passionate to him and the program. "Now they have someone who played for them and knows what it takes to sell Illinois," Mullins said.

But one city coach predicted that Howard "will be totally ignored like Illinois was before Tony Yates and the post-Jimmy Collins era and until Bill Self came in. I just don't think (Weber) has any concept of what goes on in Chicago."

Another coach said the answer to solving Illinois' recruiting problems in Chicago is Dee Brown.

"He would be the best thing to happen to Illinois," the coach said. "He is magic in Chicago, someone with great personality and charisma. People love him. Unfortunately, at this time, he is trying to play professional basketball. But, if and when the time comes, he could take over the city."


  

detroitwarrior

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2009, 01:56:16 PM »
The Basketball Times just rated Benford #14 out of the Top 100 assistant coaches in the country. I would hazard a guess that they have an objective view of his pros/cons and that is good enough for me.
If any coaching staff wants to have an immediate impact in recruiting kids out of the Chicago PSL they better be prepared to engage in some tactics/incentives that are likely to cause headaches to a program if found out and reported in the press.
Once a warrior always a warrior.

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2009, 02:22:46 PM »
Agree to disagree I guess.  We'll see if we Benford can land some 4 or 5 stars out of Chicago.  For our sake I hope so. 

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2009, 02:24:26 PM »

You have no knowledge of MU's recruiting efforts in Chicago, and come on here jumping up and down about how Tony Benford hasn't had any success in Chicago....but yet I'M the flamer??


As BMA said...do some reading/research, then come back and write something worth everyone's time.

Still waiting for an argument from you.   You're the worst kind of internet poster, take pot shots at posters when you don't know what the f**k you're talking about.  Give me an example of a Chicago 4 or 5 star in any class where we lead. 

Joe Thompson

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2009, 02:26:49 PM »
Agree to disagree I guess.  We'll see if we Benford can land some 4 or 5 stars out of Chicago.  For our sake I hope so. 

In light of the information provided since your first foray into this discussion, it seems you are both changing the criteria of your criticism and your negative thoughts toward Benford seem to be more personal then professional.

GOMU1104

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2009, 02:29:22 PM »
Still waiting for an argument from you.   You're the worst kind of internet poster, take pot shots at posters when you don't know what the f**k you're talking about.  Give me an example of a Chicago 4 or 5 star in any class where we lead. 

Read what BMA posted...that is all that needs to be said. 

I dont claim to be an insider or guru, but it doesnt take much work to look into what is going on, and to see that MU is in on some nice players from Chicago.

bma725

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2009, 02:32:41 PM »
Agree to disagree I guess.  We'll see if we Benford can land some 4 or 5 stars out of Chicago.  For our sake I hope so. 

That's going to be tough given that there isn't a single 4 or 5 star player left in Chicago in 2010.

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2009, 02:33:11 PM »
In light of the information provided since your first foray into this discussion, it seems you are both changing the criteria of your criticism and your negative thoughts toward Benford seem to be more personal then professional.

Not exactly.   I've said from the post i was asked to explain my position that I felt Benford was lacking so far in recruiting and that's what i was judging him by.   My bottom line has and always will be results...4 and 5 star recruits from your target area and yeah I'll call you a recruiting stud.   Yet to see the results, nobody here has yet to use a specific example of Benford making significant in roads into the Chicago area, i.e., leading for 4/5 star recruits.  Instead they've made vague arguments like "do some research".  

MUViking

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2009, 02:34:31 PM »
Agree to disagree I guess.  We'll see if we Benford can land some 4 or 5 stars out of Chicago.  For our sake I hope so. 


I guess you don't like Junior Cadougan...

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31873334.html

"...my coach, Ro Russell, had a good relationship with (MU assistant) Coach (Tony) Benford"


... or Brett Roseboro...

http://community.sportsbubbler.com/blogs/iwbs_sports_blog/archive/2009/02/20/mu-s-09-recruiting-class-getting-to-know-brett-roseboro.aspx

It didn’t take long for the likes of Louisville, Maryland, St. John's, Villanova and West Virginia to come calling, but when they finally did, Marquette assistant coach Aki Collins was already there... ""I called them pretty much every day. Most of the time I called coach Collins..."


...or Darius Johnson-Odom...




Just because there are stated "recruiting areas" of assistant coaches, it doesn't mean they aren't scouring the rest of the country, forming relationships and getting these kids interested in Marquette for Buzz to seal the deal.



As bma said, you don't know what you are talking about if you have been disappointed with Aki and Tony.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 02:37:07 PM by MUViking »

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2009, 02:36:46 PM »
That's going to be tough given that there isn't a single 4 or 5 star player left in Chicago in 2010.

I'm willing to give him time.  The one 4 star recruit we had a decent shot at in Darius Smith fled to UCONN in like a week, so obviously whatever Benford was selling he wasn't buying.  Now would a Jerrance Howard of had that problem, I'll argue no.   We'll see but as of right now the results aren't there. 

Pakuni

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 02:39:53 PM »
And the guy who's got most of those commitments has earned the right of the label "recruiting stud".   It's about results fellas.  If you want to pump sunshine go ahead hopefully you can handle a different opinion. 

What's your obsession with Chicago kids? A made three-point shot coming off the hand of a Texas kid or a Wisconsin kid or a JUCO kid isn't worth any fewer points than one from a Chicago kid, is it?

What you seem to be failing to understand is that recruiting success, especially in Chicago, often is the result of years-long relationships. Bruce Weber and his staff have built those relationships, which is why they're now landing a ton of highly ranked Chicago-area kids.
Buzz and his staff are building those relationships. The results won't be immediate. But in the meantime, they're not settling for second-tier kids just because they're from Chicago. They're instead mining top-tier talent from the regions in which they do have relationships. Doesn't that seem like a more wise plan than simply taking kids because they're from Chicago?

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 02:42:03 PM »

I guess you don't like Junior Cadougan...

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31873334.html

"...my coach, Ro Russell, had a good relationship with (MU assistant) Coach (Tony) Benford"


... or Brett Roseboro...

http://community.sportsbubbler.com/blogs/iwbs_sports_blog/archive/2009/02/20/mu-s-09-recruiting-class-getting-to-know-brett-roseboro.aspx

It didn’t take long for the likes of Louisville, Maryland, St. John's, Villanova and West Virginia to come calling, but when they finally did, Marquette assistant coach Aki Collins was already there... ""I called them pretty much every day. Most of the time I called coach Collins..."


...or Darius Johnson-Odom...




Just because there are stated "recruiting areas" of assistant coaches, it doesn't mean they aren't scouring the rest of the country, forming relationships and getting these kids interested in Marquette for Buzz to seal the deal.



As bma said, you don't know what you are talking about if you have been disappointed with Aki and Tony.



Pretty sure Buzz did most of the work for Houston based Cadougan.  Roseboro isn't a top of line recruit. And Buzz seemed to be the on point guy in the DJO recruitment, being on top of the eligibility status.  

GOMU1104

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2009, 02:43:27 PM »
I'm willing to give him time.  The one 4 star recruit we had a decent shot at in Darius Smith fled to UCONN in like a week, so obviously whatever Benford was selling he wasn't buying.  Now would a Jerrance Howard of had that problem, I'll argue no.   We'll see but as of right now the results aren't there. 

What are you basing that off of?? Have you read ANYTHING that BMA has posted so far?

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2009, 02:45:57 PM »
What's your obsession with Chicago kids? A made three-point shot coming off the hand of a Texas kid or a Wisconsin kid or a JUCO kid isn't worth any fewer points than one from a Chicago kid, is it?

What you seem to be failing to understand is that recruiting success, especially in Chicago, often is the result of years-long relationships. Bruce Weber and his staff have built those relationships, which is why they're now landing a ton of highly ranked Chicago-area kids.
Buzz and his staff are building those relationships. The results won't be immediate. But in the meantime, they're not settling for second-tier kids just because they're from Chicago. They're instead mining top-tier talent from the regions in which they do have relationships. Doesn't that seem like a more wise plan than simply taking kids because they're from Chicago?

I can agree with this.  I've said give it time, I'm just not encouraged by the lack of results yet.  Why care about Chicago?  I feel for the long term success of Marquette we need to tap into the Chicago market.  We should know by 2011 if Benford has been able to get into the elite talent of Chicago.  So far Jerrance Howard, Ernie Kent, etc. are running the territory.

Blackhat

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2009, 02:46:45 PM »
What are you basing that off of?? Have you read ANYTHING that BMA has posted so far?

Chicago area,  you happy now, GoMU? 

Wareagle

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2009, 02:47:33 PM »
If any coaching staff wants to have an immediate impact in recruiting kids out of the Chicago PSL they better be prepared to engage in some tactics/incentives that are likely to cause headaches to a program if found out and reported in the press.

GOMU1104

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2009, 02:50:24 PM »
Chicago area,  you happy now, GoMU? 

How does that change anything?  Please review:


From BMA

Quote
You might want to rethink your opinion of Howard as a Chicago recruiting stud, given that he hasn't actually got anyone from Chicago yet.

Richardson is from Peoria.  Paul is from Gurnee.  Bertrand is from Sterling.  Leonard is from Robinson.  None of those guys are Chicago kids.  Head was going to UofI no matter what.  Richmond committed when Jerrance was still at Texas A&M. 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/lockerroom/2007/09/public_concern_for_jerrance_ho_1.html


Quote
Illini Nation is overjoyed with Illinois basketball coach Bruce Weber's decision to hire former Illini point guard Jerrance Howard as his new assistant coach, replacing Tracy Webster. Howard is loyal and popular, young and energetic, and has the endorsements of several former players and two well-known AAU coaches who are based in the Chicago area.

But can he recruit Chicago? Can he succeed where Illinois has failed in the past? Can a Peoria product who admits to having no recruiting experience accomplish what former Illini assistants Tony Yates and Jimmy Collins and former Illinois coach Bill Self did in a short period of time? Public League coaches are skeptical. In fact, they are outraged by Weber's choice.

"Who is Jerrance Howard? He has no credibility and no stripes in Chicago. He'll get no rhythm in Chicago, no love," one coach said. "The fact that he is black and played at Illinois cuts no mustard up here. It's all about disrespecting Chicago."

Another coach said Howard's hiring is a slap in the face to Chicago. "We have no clue who (Howard) is. Now (Weber) has two Peoria people (the other is former Peoria Manual coach Wayne McClain) on his staff and nobody from Chicago. It makes no sense," he said.

In selecting Howard, who backed up Frank Williams, Deron Williams and Dee Brown at Illinois and has served on Billy Gillespie's staffs at Texas A&M and Kentucky for the last three years, Public League coaches arge that Weber overlooked several candidates with Chicago roots.

Former Whitney Young star Dennis Gates, now an assistant at Northern Illinois, said he wasn't interested in the job, that he wanted to stay at NIU. But Public League coaches said there were others who have solid credentials and their respect, including Illinois State assistant Paris Parham, Chicago State assistant Jamie Farr, Simeon coach Robert Smith, former Illinois stars Kenny Battle and Bryant Notree.

Larry Butler, director of the Illinois Warriors AAU program, told the Champaign News-Gazette that Howard, who once played for Butler, "will be unheralded in terms of getting recruits out of Chicago for Illinois."

"Butler has no pop in Chicago, only Downstate," one coach said.

Mike Mullins, director of the Illinois Wolves program, told the Champaign News-Gazette that it was important for Weber to find someone who was loyal and passionate to him and the program. "Now they have someone who played for them and knows what it takes to sell Illinois," Mullins said.

But one city coach predicted that Howard "will be totally ignored like Illinois was before Tony Yates and the post-Jimmy Collins era and until Bill Self came in. I just don't think (Weber) has any concept of what goes on in Chicago."

Another coach said the answer to solving Illinois' recruiting problems in Chicago is Dee Brown.

"He would be the best thing to happen to Illinois," the coach said. "He is magic in Chicago, someone with great personality and charisma. People love him. Unfortunately, at this time, he is trying to play professional basketball. But, if and when the time comes, he could take over the city."


bma725

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2009, 02:52:59 PM »
I'm willing to give him time.  The one 4 star recruit we had a decent shot at in Darius Smith fled to UCONN in like a week, so obviously whatever Benford was selling he wasn't buying.  Now would a Jerrance Howard of had that problem, I'll argue no.   We'll see but as of right now the results aren't there. 

Jerrance Howard tried to get Smith to UofI and Smith wanted nothing to do with him. 

Howard is not the god in Chicago that you seem to think he is.  Again, UofI has one recruit from Chicago, and he was coming regardless of whether Howard was there or not.  Howard does his work in the outlying parts of the state or in the Chicago suburbs, not the city itself.

MUViking

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2009, 02:56:24 PM »
Pretty sure Buzz did most of the work for Houston based Cadougan.  Roseboro isn't a top of line recruit. And Buzz seemed to be the on point guy in the DJO recruitment, being on top of the eligibility status.  

You're pretty sure.  Great, I'll just take your word for it, then.   ::)

And Buzz "seemed" to be the point guy on DJO.  OK.   ::)


FYI, Buzz is the point guy on every recruit we get.  But the assistants do play a key role. 

There is way more going behind the scenes than Benford strictly focusing on Chicago and Aki on New York. 


For one, I am very pleased with the recruiting work of Coaches Benford, Collins, Monarch and Autry.  Dale is a substantial loss, but to say he is the only impressive one on this staff is ludicrous and ignorant.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: [Rosiak's Blog] Layer to be named head coach at Liberty
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2009, 03:37:11 PM »
As far as people saying Crean ran people off well they were right.  Where did Jeff Strohm leave for? Dale LAyer took a head coaching job.  hate to see a guy like Layer leave you could see how instrumental he was during games, timeouts, etc.  I also beleive he worked with the big men.  Nevertheless, he is gone and I trust Buzz to bring another very valuable assistant, great job for alot of candidates

Yes but when many of Crean's assistants left to UPGRADE their titles, it was almost always stated here that they were run off.

Tod K. left to become a head coach at Green Bay
Dwayne Stephens got a promotion to move to Michigan State
Darrin Horn left to become a head coach at Western Kentucky
Kyle Green left to become a head coach
Panaggio left to become a head coach
Etc, etc

Certainly some assistants moved for other reasons (didn't like Crean or Crean didn't like them), but it is kind of funny reading the reactions of some here who had the complete opposite reactions when it came to the previous coach.


And Strohm, he's out of coaching entirely right now due to some family issues with one of his children having a rare illness.