The Beer Thread

[SaintPaulWarrior]

IPA list.

http://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/the-definitive-top-10-ipas-as-chosen-by-a-hopped-up-panel-of-beer-writers?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

IPA list.

http://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/the-definitive-top-10-ipas-as-chosen-by-a-hopped-up-panel-of-beer-writers?

That's a good list.  #14 is my local brewer and it must be a new brew for them as it's the first I heard of the made an IPA.

[Chili]

IPA list.

http://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/the-definitive-top-10-ipas-as-chosen-by-a-hopped-up-panel-of-beer-writers?

Good list but not a single English Style IPA - all American Style IPA's. I would say Top 10 American Style "ie West Coast" IPA's.

[Coleman]

Good list but not a single English Style IPA - all American Style IPA's. I would say Top 10 American Style "ie West Coast" IPA's.

Care to explain the difference?

Do English Style IPAs include Black IPAs?

[🏀]

Care to explain the difference?

Do English Style IPAs include Black IPAs?

West Coast IPAs are usually hop-dominated. Finishes dry, limited malt flavor. Terminology comes from the styles of hops located in the Pacific Northwest, but not limited to just West Coast breweries. See the top ten in that list

English IPAs which are less bitter, more earthly. Usually more floral flavor profiles and darker color. 60 minute Dogfish, Goose's IPA

[Chili]

West Coast IPAs are usually hop-dominated. Finishes dry, limited malt flavor. Terminology comes from the styles of hops located in the Pacific Northwest, but not limited to just West Coast breweries. See the top ten in that list

English IPAs which are less bitter, more earthly. Usually more floral flavor profiles and darker color. 60 minute Dogfish, Goose's IPA

Personally it comes down to balance in the beer. English IPA's are more balanced with a healthy amount of malt character where American IPA's tilt much heavier to the hop side. Now to really turn the geek up on this conversation, here are the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) style guides for American IPA and English IPA:

14A. English IPA

Aroma: A moderate to moderately high hop aroma of floral, earthy or fruity nature is typical, although the intensity of hop character is usually lower than American versions.  A slightly grassy dry-hop aroma is acceptable, but not required.  A moderate caramel-like or toasty malt presence is common.  Low to moderate fruitiness, either from esters or hops, can be present.  Some versions may have a sulfury note, although this character is not mandatory.
Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to light copper, but most are pale to medium amber with an orange-ish tint.  Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy.  Good head stand with off-white color should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, with a moderate to assertive hop bitterness.  The hop flavor should be similar to the aroma (floral, earthy, fruity, and/or slightly grassy).  Malt flavor should be medium-low to medium-high, but should be noticeable, pleasant, and support the hop aspect.  The malt should show an English character and be somewhat bready, biscuit-like, toasty, toffee-like and/or caramelly.  Despite the substantial hop character typical of these beers, sufficient malt flavor, body and complexity to support the hops will provide the best balance. Very low levels of diacetyl are acceptable, and fruitiness from the fermentation or hops adds to the overall complexity.  Finish is medium to dry, and bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh.  If high sulfate water is used, a distinctively minerally, dry finish, some sulfur flavor, and a lingering bitterness are usually present.  Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions.  Oak is inappropriate in this style.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness.  Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.  

Overall Impression: A hoppy, moderately strong pale ale that features characteristics consistent with the use of English malt, hops and yeast.  Has less hop character and a more pronounced malt flavor than American versions.

History: Brewed to survive the voyage from England to India.  The temperature extremes and rolling of the seas resulted in a highly attenuated beer upon arrival.  English pale ales were derived from India Pale Ales.

Comments: A pale ale brewed to an increased gravity and hop rate.  Modern versions of English IPAs generally pale in comparison (pun intended) to their ancestors.  The term "IPA" is loosely applied in commercial English beers today, and has been (incorrectly) used in beers below 4% ABV.  Generally will have more finish hops and less fruitiness and/or caramel than English pale ales and bitters.  Fresher versions will obviously have a more significant finishing hop character.

Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); English hops; English yeast that can give a fruity or sulfury/minerally profile. Refined sugar may be used in some versions.  High sulfate and low carbonate water is essential to achieving a pleasant hop bitterness in authentic Burton versions, although not all examples will exhibit the strong sulfate character.

Vital Statistics:   OG:   1.050 – 1.075
IBUs:   40 – 60   FG:   1.010 – 1.018
SRM:   8 – 14   ABV:   5 – 7.5%

Commercial Examples: Meantime India Pale Ale, Freeminer Trafalgar IPA, Fuller's IPA, Ridgeway Bad Elf, Summit India Pale Ale, Samuel Smith's India Ale, Hampshire Pride of Romsey IPA, Burton Bridge Empire IPA,Middle Ages ImPailed Ale, Goose Island IPA, Brooklyn East India Pale Ale

14B. American IPA

Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops.  Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required.  Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples.  Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable.  Some alcohol may be noted.

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint.  Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy.  Good head stand with white to off-white color should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects.  Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance.  Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl.  Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required.  The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh.  Medium-dry to dry finish.  Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions.  Oak is inappropriate in this style.  May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit this character.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness.  Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.  Body is generally less than in English counterparts.

Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately strong American pale ale.

History: An American version of the historical English style, brewed using American ingredients and attitude.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); American hops; American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation.  Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.  Versions with a noticeable Rye character ("RyePA") should be entered in the Specialty category.

Vital Statistics:   OG:   1.056 – 1.075
IBUs:   40 – 70   FG:   1.010 – 1.018
SRM:   6 – 15   ABV:   5.5 – 7.5%

Commercial Examples: Bell's Two-Hearted Ale, AleSmith IPA, Russian River Blind Pig IPA, Stone IPA, Three Floyds Alpha King, Great Divide Titan IPA, Bear Republic Racer 5 IPA, Victory Hop Devil, Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, Anderson Valley Hop Ottin',  Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA, Founder's Centennial IPA, Anchor Liberty Ale, Harpoon IPA, Avery IPA

[akmarq]

Care to explain the difference?

Do English Style IPAs include Black IPAs?

I would slate Black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale/IBA under American IPA as it was a style developed in the US. That's not to say that Black IPAs with English-style hopping don't exist, but the vast majority are using American hops and have flavors more consistent with American IPA.

I'm trying to think of a good example of a 'black English IPA' and am drawing a blank.

[🏀]

Personally it comes down to balance in the beer. English IPA's are more balanced with a healthy amount of malt character where American IPA's tilt much heavier to the hop side. Now to really turn the geek up on this conversation, here are the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) style guides for American IPA and English IPA:

14A. English IPA

Aroma: A moderate to moderately high hop aroma of floral, earthy or fruity nature is typical, although the intensity of hop character is usually lower than American versions.  A slightly grassy dry-hop aroma is acceptable, but not required.  A moderate caramel-like or toasty malt presence is common.  Low to moderate fruitiness, either from esters or hops, can be present.  Some versions may have a sulfury note, although this character is not mandatory.
Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to light copper, but most are pale to medium amber with an orange-ish tint.  Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy.  Good head stand with off-white color should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, with a moderate to assertive hop bitterness.  The hop flavor should be similar to the aroma (floral, earthy, fruity, and/or slightly grassy).  Malt flavor should be medium-low to medium-high, but should be noticeable, pleasant, and support the hop aspect.  The malt should show an English character and be somewhat bready, biscuit-like, toasty, toffee-like and/or caramelly.  Despite the substantial hop character typical of these beers, sufficient malt flavor, body and complexity to support the hops will provide the best balance. Very low levels of diacetyl are acceptable, and fruitiness from the fermentation or hops adds to the overall complexity.  Finish is medium to dry, and bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh.  If high sulfate water is used, a distinctively minerally, dry finish, some sulfur flavor, and a lingering bitterness are usually present.  Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions.  Oak is inappropriate in this style.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness.  Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.  

Overall Impression: A hoppy, moderately strong pale ale that features characteristics consistent with the use of English malt, hops and yeast.  Has less hop character and a more pronounced malt flavor than American versions.

History: Brewed to survive the voyage from England to India.  The temperature extremes and rolling of the seas resulted in a highly attenuated beer upon arrival.  English pale ales were derived from India Pale Ales.

Comments: A pale ale brewed to an increased gravity and hop rate.  Modern versions of English IPAs generally pale in comparison (pun intended) to their ancestors.  The term "IPA" is loosely applied in commercial English beers today, and has been (incorrectly) used in beers below 4% ABV.  Generally will have more finish hops and less fruitiness and/or caramel than English pale ales and bitters.  Fresher versions will obviously have a more significant finishing hop character.

Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); English hops; English yeast that can give a fruity or sulfury/minerally profile. Refined sugar may be used in some versions.  High sulfate and low carbonate water is essential to achieving a pleasant hop bitterness in authentic Burton versions, although not all examples will exhibit the strong sulfate character.

Vital Statistics:   OG:   1.050 – 1.075
IBUs:   40 – 60   FG:   1.010 – 1.018
SRM:   8 – 14   ABV:   5 – 7.5%

Commercial Examples: Meantime India Pale Ale, Freeminer Trafalgar IPA, Fuller's IPA, Ridgeway Bad Elf, Summit India Pale Ale, Samuel Smith's India Ale, Hampshire Pride of Romsey IPA, Burton Bridge Empire IPA,Middle Ages ImPailed Ale, Goose Island IPA, Brooklyn East India Pale Ale

14B. American IPA

Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops.  Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required.  Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples.  Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable.  Some alcohol may be noted.

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint.  Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy.  Good head stand with white to off-white color should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects.  Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance.  Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl.  Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required.  The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh.  Medium-dry to dry finish.  Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions.  Oak is inappropriate in this style.  May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit this character.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness.  Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.  Body is generally less than in English counterparts.

Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately strong American pale ale.

History: An American version of the historical English style, brewed using American ingredients and attitude.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); American hops; American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation.  Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.  Versions with a noticeable Rye character ("RyePA") should be entered in the Specialty category.

Vital Statistics:   OG:   1.056 – 1.075
IBUs:   40 – 70   FG:   1.010 – 1.018
SRM:   6 – 15   ABV:   5.5 – 7.5%

Commercial Examples: Bell's Two-Hearted Ale, AleSmith IPA, Russian River Blind Pig IPA, Stone IPA, Three Floyds Alpha King, Great Divide Titan IPA, Bear Republic Racer 5 IPA, Victory Hop Devil, Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, Anderson Valley Hop Ottin',  Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA, Founder's Centennial IPA, Anchor Liberty Ale, Harpoon IPA, Avery IPA

Fully torqued.

https://www.youtube.com/v/5E1JLR-h_bE

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Local brewer here is #5 on the list.  Pic from Alary's Bar.

[Sir Lawrence]

Local brewer here is #5 on the list.  Pic from Alary's Bar.

Love Surly.  When will it be available outside the Twins?

[Chili]

Love Surly.  When will it be available outside the Twins?

It's in Chicago now. I have Hell and Coffee Bender in my fridge right now. Came back about a month ago.

[🏀]

Love Surly.  When will it be available outside the Twins?

Furious has been at every suburban bar for a couple weeks now.

[Hards Alumni]

I guess we need to hijack a truck on its way to Chicago then...

[SaintPaulWarrior]

After a 3 year absence they are back in Chicago.

http://www.surlybrewing.com/eventsblog/

[🏀]

The Cheese Castle is taping a keg of Bourbon County Stout on Christmas Eve at 9A. They will fill growlers.

[Chili]

Back home in Waukesha so I swung by Discount Liquor for a sixer of some New Glarus and picked up their Cabin Fever Honey Bock - very tasty. Great 6% beer that's easy to drink.

Also found out they still have Goose Island Bourbon County, Coffee & Barleywine - 1 bottle limit per person. Head in if you haven't gotten your fill.

[Spotcheck Billy]

^ I went to the Oklahoma Ave. location on the 26th, nothing but single bottles of BC stout available then

We stopped in Burnhearts Saturday night and they had the BC barleywine on tap. I found it a bit too sweet, I prefer the stout to the barleywine I guess. I'm a big fan of barleywines so was kind of surprised by this.

I also went to 3 Cellars Sat. morning to check out the Alesmith bourbon barrel Old Numbscull and Wee Heavy but at $42/bottle I had to pass, I'll invest that kind of $ in scotch but not a bottle of beer.

[Hards Alumni]

^ I went to the Oklahoma Ave. location on the 26th, nothing but single bottles of BC stout available then

We stopped in Burnhearts Saturday night and they had the BC barleywine on tap. I found it a bit too sweet, I prefer the stout to the barleywine I guess. I'm a big fan of barleywines so was kind of surprised by this.

I also went to 3 Cellars Sat. morning to check out the Alesmith bourbon barrel Old Numbscull and Wee Heavy but at $42/bottle I had to pass, I'll invest that kind of $ in scotch but not a bottle of beer.

Woodmans in Sun Prairie has those two bottles @ $34 each.  Still too much for me.

[Spotcheck Billy]

If Villanova wasn't coming in on Jan. 25th I would go to the Central Waters 16th Anniversary party that day. 

[Sir Lawrence]

What do you blokes think of Leinenkugel's Snowdrift Vanilla Porter?  Had some on tap at Leff's Lucky Town and thought well of it.

[Coleman]

Relevant to our earlier discussion of Trappist beers...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/01/10/trappists-spencer-tap-monk-mystique-launching-brewery/FBgfeHbf5lr5NjOfP8Jd8J/story.html

I'm very excited, to say the least

[Hards Alumni]

What do you blokes think of Leinenkugel's Snowdrift Vanilla Porter?  Had some on tap at Leff's Lucky Town and thought well of it.

Haven't tried it, but I only get Lienie's if there is literally nothing but Bud and Miller garbage available.  About the only Lienie's I can choke down is the Creamy Dark.

[Chili]

What do you blokes think of Leinenkugel's Snowdrift Vanilla Porter?  Had some on tap at Leff's Lucky Town and thought well of it.

Tried it. Like Breckenridge Vanilla Porter, it's too fake and overpowering for me. Real vanilla in beer can be a difficult nut to control so when you use fake it's just not good IMO. When going with porter / stouts with alternative ingredients I am a bigger fan coffee, milk sugar and nitrogenation.

[Coleman]

Tried it. Like Breckenridge Vanilla Porter, it's too fake and overpowering for me. Real vanilla in beer can be a difficult nut to control so when you use fake it's just not good IMO. When going with porter / stouts with alternative ingredients I am a bigger fan coffee, milk sugar and nitrogenation.

Milk stouts are delicious

[rocky_warrior]

What do you blokes think of Leinenkugel's Snowdrift Vanilla Porter?  Had some on tap at Leff's Lucky Town and thought well of it.

A nice drinkable brew.  Quite sweet, but I enjoyed it.  On a similar note, if anyone here can get their hands on Boulder Brewing Shake (Chocolate Porter), it's quite good.