Colleges will fail?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

With all due respect warrior07, it seems as though you were ill suited for Marquette before you even got there.  I mean, they let you know well in advance what courses you have to take to graduate.  Also, how could you not be aware what college you were supposed to be in?

Some of the responsibility for this has to lie at your feet.

Not college I was supposed to be in? I knew that my 3 undergraduate majors were all in the CAS. I only realized after a couple years that I should have been in a real college with real adults with real majors that are actually worthwhile. Which is why I extended my undergraduate studies into a master's degree in a serious department.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

With all due respect warrior07, it seems as though you were ill suited for Marquette before you even got there.  I mean, they let you know well in advance what courses you have to take to graduate.  Also, how could you not be aware what college you were supposed to be in?

Some of the responsibility for this has to lie at your feet.

BTW - are you going to respond to a single other post I've made or are you too offended that someone has criticized your precious Arts & Crafts background?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You didn't have to go to MU.

Why are you blaming MU for putting you into debt?

You could have done 1 million things that would have been cheaper and helped you start a career... even after your soph. year.

Again, it it's about value of education (defined by the amount of money you make vs the amount of money you spent), you should have become an electrician. You'd have gotten way more value.

[bma725]

You mean why did I stay in the College of Arts and Crafts? Unfortunately, a student is more or less told that he has to take most of those worthless classes before he even takes a single class in his major. For two of my undergrad majors, I didn't take a single class in the majors until my sophomore year. I didn't even begin to realize that I should have been in another college (ie COB) until late soph year.

And no, sorry, every other college does not require you to take the same number of obnoxious, worthless classes as the CAS. 4 language (for people who have no HS language history), 4 philosophy ... just a joke.

Go to any other Jesuit or religious university in the country and you will find the same thing.  Broad education is at the core of Jesuit teaching.  Knowledge in Philosophy, Theology and the rest of the Humanities is at the core of Jesuit teaching.

Sounds like you should have gone to a public school or actually read up on the Jesuits before attending MU (or any other Jesuit school).

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

You didn't have to go to MU.

Why are you blaming MU for putting you into debt?

You could have done 1 million things that would have been cheaper and helped you start a career... even after your soph. year.

Again, it it's about value of education (defined by the amount of money you make vs the amount of money you spent), you should have become an electrician. You'd have gotten way more value.

You really need to read what I've written. I've compared the value of an ARTS AND CRAFTS degree at Marquette with everything else at Marquette. You cannot honestly tell me the value of an Arts and Crafts major is equal to anything else at Marquette or any university on average based on the return. Or do you actually believe that?

[GGGG]

BTW - are you going to respond to a single other post I've made or are you too offended that someone has criticized your precious Arts & Crafts background?

I am hardly offended by your comments.  I just think it is sad that you don't recognize the value of the education you received...or better yet, apparently not adequately using the education that was provided to you.  I guess in that sense the Jesuits failed.

Apparently you expected them to tell you in advance what courses you had to take to graduate so that you could have realized that they were a "joke" ahead of time.

Oh wait...

[GGGG]

You really need to read what I've written. I've compared the value of an ARTS AND CRAFTS degree at Marquette with everything else at Marquette. You cannot honestly tell me the value of an Arts and Crafts major is equal to anything else at Marquette or any university on average based on the return. Or do you actually believe that?

What "return" are you talking about?  Some people, like me, want to study POSC, ECON, and HIST because they find them interesting.  I got my degree and am making a good living doing something I like.  I didn't want to be an accountant.  I didn't want to be an engineer. 

Hell, one of my best friends got his engineering degree, but hasn't done any engineering in years - he's in international sales support.  He just loves it.  You don't always do what you intend to do when you are 18.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You really need to read what I've written. I've compared the value of an ARTS AND CRAFTS degree at Marquette with everything else at Marquette. You cannot honestly tell me the value of an Arts and Crafts major is equal to anything else at Marquette or any university on average based on the return. Or do you actually believe that?

I've read what you wrote.

I'm simply applying the same logic you are using to illustrate a point.

Do you believe that a degree in communications or business at MU (valued at 80k+) is a better value that becoming an electrician's apprentice and then becoming fully union certified?

I can tell you that the MU degree is not a good "value". You'll have wasted 4 years and blown 80k, when you could be working for those 4 years and getting paid.

The electrician will be far enough ahead that it will take decades for the MU grad to catch up (if ever).

If value is important to you (which you appear to be very focused on), then MU, or any major 4 year school is not a good choice.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I've read what you wrote.

I'm simply applying the same logic you are using to illustrate a point.

Do you believe that a degree in communications or business at MU (valued at 80k+) is a better value that becoming an electrician's apprentice and then becoming fully union certified?

I can tell you that the MU degree is not a good "value". You'll have wasted 4 years and blown 80k, when you could be working for those 4 years and getting paid.

The electrician will be far enough ahead that it will take decades for the MU grad to catch up (if ever).

If value is important to you (which you appear to be very focused on), then MU, or any major 4 year school is not a good choice.

Ok, you win. I can't argue with a guy who sees no distinction between majoring in english and majoring in finance.

[reinko]

Ok, you win. I can't argue with a guy who sees no distinction between majoring in english and majoring in finance.

I'm sure those finance majors are just reeling about job opportunities with this awesome economy.   

But seriously, your comments about "real people" with "real majors" in the COB, is so misguided, that it borders on hilarity.  Here is a list of A&S majors...in case you forgot there are some heavy hitters in this list:

American Military History: Who needs this?!?!  The USA never makes any mistakes when it comes to war.
Anthropology
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology:  Molecules, who needs 'em!  Talk about over-RATED!
Biological Sciences
Catholic Theology:  Jesus sucks, why would anyone want to study this?  Especially at a Catholic university?
Chemistry: The sciences are for nerds!  Have you seen my bunsen burner?
Classical Languages
Classical Studies
Computational Mathematics
Computer Science: Computers!  Nerds...internets...message boards
Criminology & Law Studies: You think this might be good for someone to study law?
Economics: Yeah, you may have forgot this was not in the COB.
English Literature
French
German
History
International Affairs:  Hmmm, with the world so hunky dory right now, this must be worthless.
Mathematics: Ahh, the maths. 
Philosophy
Physics: Einstein was a bitch, and so are those who would actually study physics
Physiological Sciences
Political Science
Psychology
Social Welfare & Justice: F'in do gooders!  Justice!  Please, it's all about the kwan.
Sociology
Spanish Language & Literature: Seeing that in about 1/3 of our country speaks Spanish as a Native tongue as supposed to English, think this is useful?
Spanish for the Professions
Theology:  Once again, faith is so overrated.
Writing Intensive English
Women's and Gender Studies  Ok this one is worthless    Kidding ladies!

My point, the world does not revolve around Finance majors.  And yes, you are no more important than us lowly A&S majors.  You may think you are, but trust me, you are not.  You sir have some deep rooted hatred toward the majority of your college career, and for that, I feel bad for you.  I loved college.  I loved most of my classes.  I met awesome people, and did things I will never get to expereince again.   Did I borrow $20K to do those things?  You are damn right I did.  I would do it again in a heartbeat.

So pack up your calculator and one those visors with the see-thru green brim and be on your way.

[bma725]

You really need to read what I've written. I've compared the value of an ARTS AND CRAFTS degree at Marquette with everything else at Marquette. You cannot honestly tell me the value of an Arts and Crafts major is equal to anything else at Marquette or any university on average based on the return. Or do you actually believe that?

You seem to equate a college education only with the financial or employment return it provides you after graduation.  There's much more to your education than the financial return.

I was in what they called a multidisciplinary major, meaning I was part of A&S and COB.  I work in business today in a field related to what I studied in the COB, and can tell you that what I learned in Arts and Sciences classes was 1000 times more valuable than anything I ever learned in COB. 

For 95% of the jobs you'll get after graduation, the skills you get from studying things like Philosophy, Logic, PoliSci, Sociology etc are far more important than what you learn from analyzing the marketing campaign for the Patio Daddio, or learning how to properly apply Keynesian economic theory to the current financial situation.  Most jobs you get after college unless you go into a super specialized field like Nursing or Accounting or Engineering don't really care what you know.  They care what you can learn and how quickly you can do it.  The fact you can learn what they need to teach, the fact that you have the critical thinking skills to problem solve and come up with new ideas are far more important.  Those are the kinds of things you get from an A&S education that you quite often don't in the other areas.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

My point, the world does not revolve around Finance majors.  And yes, you are no more important than us lowly A&S majors.  You may think you are, but trust me, you are not. 

Again, I was a lowly A&S major. Thrice.

[GGGG]

Again, I was a lowly A&S major. Thrice.

Then maybe the fault lies with you and not Marquette.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Then maybe the fault lies with you and not Marquette.

Clearly you haven't read a thing I've posted. Oh well.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ok, you win. I can't argue with a guy who sees no distinction between majoring in english and majoring in finance.

I see the difference... but you seem to think the only distinction is "value" (at least that is all you are focusing on).

If your primary goal is "value"... go to JUCO and get an associates degree. That will provide you with a better value.

The difference in value between a 4 year English degree and a 4 year degree in finance isn't as much as if you just skipped school all together and learned a trade (or did juco).

Now, I'm not saying that trades are for everybody, but you seem obssessed with the fact that you didn't get a good "value" for your money at MU.

MU is not just about the specific assignments and memorization, but the overall education (that's the value).

Example:   I learned far more working on large group projects than I ever did from a specific instructor. Time management, team negotiation, teamwork, division of labor and delegation, leadership, project management, etc. etc.

Does this mean I shouldn't have gone to MU and I should have just hung out with my friends doing "team projects"? Nope. It doesn't.

For a guy with a AS degree, I thought you would have a better grasp of logic 001. 

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

For a guy with a AS degree, I thought you would have a better grasp of logic 001. 

They don't require/mandate 001 anymore. ;-)

[GGGG]

Clearly you haven't read a thing I've posted. Oh well.

Ditto.

[Hards Alumni]

Warrior07, perhaps you are completely unaware of how the real world works.  I am ASSUMING the 07 in your name is indicative of your year of graduation, approximately a year and a half ago, which also gives us a good idea how long you have actually lived in the real world.  Now, I won't lie to you, I graduated in 2004 (College of Health Science, since I know you will ask), and that doesn't give me an enormous lead in real life, but it doesn't mean you can just dismiss everyone else's opinions here just because you THINK you are right and you THINK you know everything. 

A few fundamentals before we get started.  I KNOW of employers that would hire people who had lower grades, or a different degree simply because they will probably end up working harder and being a better overall employee than someone who simply shows up to their doorstep with their resume and a degree.  In fact, my close friend from college started his own branch of a company here in the Madison area that was previously only located in Milwaukee.  Guess what his major in college was?  History.  Thats right, a history major managed to step over all of the college of business students that come out of MU, and the UW system every year and got that company up and running here in Madison back in 2005-06.  That company now has around 50 employees and is a recession proof company.  He also makes a lot more money than me.  Not bad for a lowly Arts and Crafts major, huh?  Oh, and in case you were wondering, no, there was no nepotism involved in his hiring; I wish I could say the same for my friends who have jobs and were products of the school of business.

Most places that hire people don't care what classes you took.  They care that you got an education and that you can be molded to fit their company.  Not that you can cram the night before a test and ace it.  This is the real world where performance isn't measured in standardized tests and essays.

Welcome.

[mu_hilltopper]

Indeed, that was tried and true philosophy when I worked for Andersen (Accenture.)    What you majored in didn't matter one bit for hiring purposes.  If you were a successful student (typically 3.5 gpa or above) and interviewed well .. they hired you under the idea that .. smart people can learn just about anything.

As a consultant, which, often for the first 1-2 years you were doing some sort of computer programming, 60% or so were your classic majors, like Business, CompSci, or Engineering.  The other folks were English, History, PolySci majors.  All did very well.

[GGGG]

Indeed, that was tried and true philosophy when I worked for Andersen (Accenture.)    What you majored in didn't matter one bit for hiring purposes.  If you were a successful student (typically 3.5 gpa or above) and interviewed well .. they hired you under the idea that .. smart people can learn just about anything.

As a consultant, which, often for the first 1-2 years you were doing some sort of computer programming, 60% or so were your classic majors, like Business, CompSci, or Engineering.  The other folks were English, History, PolySci majors.  All did very well.

When I was at MU, in the late 80s, the College of A&C placed many people at Quad/Graphics.  Quad hired liberal arts degree alums for almost all of its positions, outside of specialist areas like accounting, because they believed that they were more innovative than what came out of business schools.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Ditto.

Seriously, buddy, how is triple majoring a "problem"?

Can you read? I suggest you try to read my posts before you respond.

[GGGG]

Seriously, buddy, how is triple majoring a "problem"?

Well if you don't do a damn thing with it except sit and whine about how much you paid and how little you got in return, you've got a problem.

HTH.

[Ari Gold]

@ warrior07 -->

Where do you work?