Buzz and TC

[pbiflyer]

Lenny's Tap was probably my favorite M.U. area bar. Fun place with some colorful characters from the neighborhood--Smokey & Gordy. Best of all, a mug of Old Milwaukee on tap cost all of 15 cents in the mid to late 70s. I still have a mug from Lenny's, a souvenir from my last visit the night before graduation. I moved away and wasn't aware there was a shooting there. Guess the neighborhood got worse...too bad but not a surprise.

I remember going into Lenny's and getting green beer.........in April. 

[lurch91]

As a catholic, I believe in doing penance for your sins, and he is certainly doing his penance this year and probably next year, too, so I have forgiven him and moved on to seriously enjoy the team we have this year.

Sounds like you did 16 years in catholic school.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Chicos,

If indeed you were always a neutral wait and see guy on Buzz I apologize. I just remember that many posters said in effect, "We know he can recuit, but can he coach?" They said it when he was hired and repeated it each time  a blue chip prospect verballed and signed. Now that he has, to the satisfaction of any fair and impartial observer, proven that he can indeed coach, people want to qualify their endorsements. When you give what seem like backhanded compliments, saying he hasn't screwed up the unbelieveably great situation he was given, it rings hollow to me. Buzz has done much more than that. He has coached this team that was TC's better than TC ever did. Matthews has gone from dependable  to terrific. James has recovered from his downward spiral and is a star again. Mcneal and Hayward have made great strides, at least meeting and likely exceeding their past improvement profiles. But you can't seem to let it go-everything is we'll see and so far. So will do it your way. So far, who do you think has done the better job deveoping Wes? Or Dominic? Or Jerel and Lazar? Or the whole team?

+1 billion and it is about time people admitted it!!!!!!!

[MR.HAYWARD]

did the simple presence of a well spoken and gramatically proper advocate of Mr Hayward's belief in Buzz instantly make Mr Hayward a better writer? I sure hope so cause i enjoyed it 

I was drunk   

[MR.HAYWARD]

We'll see if Buzz can coach in the next couple of years. We currently have 4 studs playing a ton of minutes. Senior leadership, especially talented senior leadership, makes anyone look good. I truthfully can say I like Buzz more everyday, but not because of his coaching. He seems like a good guy and I wish him the best.

Anyone that wants to 100% say Buzz is a D1 top coach is kidding himself. He inherited a very good team and better yet the top players have a chip on their shoulder. Again, I have watched MU a long time and this team has something different about them. It might be the Buzz factor or it might be a group of guys not wanting to lose.

How good were Crean's team's in his 5th and 6th year with the program!!  I will say today that Buzz's teams will be more talented and better coached in year 2 than Creans were in year 5 and 6.  I fully expect a NIT season next year but with a team loaded with gobs of talent and the future looking bright.  Additonally I fully expect Buzz to sign 3 great recruits versus the one good recruiting class followed by 4 duds from the old regime

I think the few taking over for Monson is a agreat analogy.  People that want to say Mu is only better this year becuase of senior urgency have their heads stuck so far up their you now what's in denial it is ludicrous.  Now maybe you are seeing how poor of a coach Crean was.  The fact that Buzz steps in and signs Jimmy Butler, Fulce, and Otule after a few eeks on the job which in of itself is better than any class Crean had signed in 3 years is that not telling of how poor a recruiter Crean was.  and then with a year under his belt , at Mu 2-3 months as head coach a ton let me say again a ton of unknowns about the guy he goes out and signs the best recruiting class in 30 years for MU!!  Yet Crean who is apparently a basketball God, to the point that his peers mock him by calling him Tommy Naismith cant sign recruitng classes to save his A$$.  Chrsitpoherson, Trend, Kinsellsa,  This is the BE Mr. NAismith!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How good were Crean's team's in his 5th and 6th year with the program!!  I will say today that Buzz's teams will be more talented and better coached in year 2 than Creans were in year 5 and 6.  I fully expect a NIT season next year but with a team loaded with gobs of talent and the future looking bright.  Additonally I fully expect Buzz to sign 3 great recruits versus the one good recruiting class followed by 4 duds from the old regime

I think the few taking over for Monson is a agreat analogy.  People that want to say Mu is only better this year becuase of senior urgency have their heads stuck so far up their you now what's in denial it is ludicrous.  Now maybe you are seeing how poor of a coach Crean was.  The fact that Buzz steps in and signs Jimmy Butler, Fulce, and Otule after a few eeks on the job which in of itself is better than any class Crean had signed in 3 years is that not telling of how poor a recruiter Crean was.  and then with a year under his belt , at Mu 2-3 months as head coach a ton let me say again a ton of unknowns about the guy he goes out and signs the best recruiting class in 30 years for MU!!  Yet Crean who is apparently a basketball God, to the point that his peers mock him by calling him Tommy Naismith cant sign recruitng classes to save his A$$.  Chrsitpoherson, Trend, Kinsellsa,  This is the BE Mr. NAismith!!

Didn't Fulce and Otule sign when Crean was the coach?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Dont be the fool, 

you honestly beleive those two are on this campus or north of the mason-dixon without Buzz?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Dont be the fool, 

you honestly beleive those two are on this campus or north of the mason-dixon without Buzz?

I guess... but isn't it fair to say that Buzz is not responsible for his new recruits because his assistants did the work? (that's essentially what you are saying, right?)

[MR.HAYWARD]

No it's not at all what i am saying and if you want to completely divert the topic feel free i will not particpate

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No it's not at all what i am saying and if you want to completely divert the topic feel free i will not particpate

woah woah woah.

No change of topic.

I agree that Buzz is a good recruiter and played a large role in landing Fulce and Otule. Buzz is a good recruiter. Got it.

However, this is a slippery slope because now when MU lands an east coast recruit does Dale Layer get all of the credit instead of the head coach?

[RawdogDX]

No it's not at all what i am saying and if you want to completely divert the topic feel free i will not particpate

HAHA!  That just made oj squirt out of my nose.  For those counting he has 5 of the last 7 posts.

[trublufan]

   Not only is MU playing better but they are more fun to watch. Having a veteran team is usually easier to coach. Usually. Not always. As far as next year I don't see why another dance card to the NCAA's is out of the question. It all depends on McMorrow, Otule and the possible signing of Riley.

[mu-rara]

I think Lenny's original post was one of the most balanced on this topic yet,

But I dont have a large problem with Chicos stand. 

I think Buzz is doing a great job so far.  I think that his in game adjustments are way better than TC's (maybe TC's biggest weakness)  I am very optimistic (sp?) about Buzz's first recruiting class, but a long term judgement is premature. 

[ecompt]

I thought Lenny's Tap (the bar) was down on Michigan a few blocks from the old gym, overlooking the industrial valley. What bar am I thinking off?

[Skatastrophy]

I thought Lenny's Tap (the bar) was down on Michigan a few blocks from the old gym, overlooking the industrial valley. What bar am I thinking off?

The Gloc?  (Gloccamora)  That place is closed now, if I recall correctly.

Edit:  Here's a good place to start reminiscing about MU bars:  http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/bars/start

[IAmMarquette]

The Gloc?  (Gloccamora)  That place is closed now, if I recall correctly.

Edit:  Here's a good place to start reminiscing about MU bars:  http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/bars/start

The Gloc was on Clybourn between 17th and 18th, and is now (mercifully) the site of a Facilities Services parking lot/storage facility. As far as bars near campus on Michigan, I'm stumped.

[mviale]

The barlife sounds awful at MU these days.  What do students do?

[MUrugger]

This topic was starting to spin out of control and lose its objectivity and I just wanted to salute some of the old time references before they disappeared.

Lenny's Tap was a great place if not a little dicey, especially late.  If you got kicked out of the Lanche the night before you might try Lenny's.  But I'm just an infrequent poster who hasn't been on the board much since I referenced "Dhamer munching on the locals" to some amusement last year, which coincided with the lowest point for the school and its storied b-ball program.

I also saw a "Lloyd Walden"(sp?) handle on a post recently, reminding of that old Warrior rarely given his proper due.  (Lloyd Walton was the most stylish baller--and dude--of the tuxedoed '77 Championship team gracing the Wiki page.) Kudos to the poster for revitalizing his name.  I looked recently to see that MU went 100-16 while I was there, during the Walton years ('72-'76).  You bet we got spoiled.  Heck, the '77 NCAA Championship team had more losses than any in that era (7) and of any NCAA champ that preceded it.  (That dubious distinction may have been eclipsed since '77.)  

On the subject of Buzz vs. Crean, I could not say it any better than the fair and objective treatment that initiated the thread.  Indeed time will tell.  But history tells me that I was happy to see Hank Raymonds go when it was time, to see Rick Majerus say good bye, and clearly when Dukiet, O'Neill, Deane and Crean took a walk.  Crean revitalized the program but became all about him and was classless in his departure.  Buzz then becomes the only guy in the discussion with a chance to have a building named after him.  That's a tall order.  I wish him luck.

[Daniel]

I can't remember what Deane's best recruiting class was, but did he have one as good as Buzz's first year?  I think we're still 12th.  Thanks

[bma725]

I can't remember what Deane's best recruiting class was, but did he have one as good as Buzz's first year?  I think we're still 12th.  Thanks

Basing it on how Buzz's class is measured at the moment, i.e. recruiting rankings, no.  Here's Deane's classes:

Class of 1995:  Jarrod Lovette, Mike Bargen, John Polonowski
Class of 1996:  John Cliff, Bart Miller, Alton Mason
Class of 1997:  Greg Clausen, John Mueller, DeMarcus Minor, Brian Wardle
Class of 1998:  David Diggs, John Harris, Cordell Henry, Oluoma Nnamaka
Class of 1999:  Krunti Hester

The only top 100 players in the group were Cordell Henry and Brian Wardle, and only Henry was mentioned on multiple top 100 lists.  Bargen and Lovette were nice players while Deane was here, but they weren't particularly highly ranked as recruits.  Cliff and Nnamaka became productive once Crean got here, but again they weren't highly ranked guys.   

Beyond that it doesn't take much to pass Deane's recruits in terms of production.  Polo and Krunti never did a thing.  Clausen, Miller and Harris were just big bodies.  Diggs had a couple good games, but that's it.  Besides Cordell and Wardle, Deane's two best players in terms of production may have been DeMarcus Minor and Alton Mason....and they both became good after leaving MU.  Minor was All Big 12 at Baylor, and Mason was All Pac 10 at Arizona State.  But Minor didn't like Milwaukee, Deane's coaching style, or the fact that he'd been recruited over, and Mason couldn't stay eligible at MU.  So Deane can't really get credit for them.

[The Lens]

There is no defense for Deane's recruiting...but (there's always a but) I would love to stumble upon a Jarrod Lovette again.

[Marquette84]

Dont be the fool, 

you honestly beleive those two are on this campus or north of the mason-dixon without Buzz?

And do you honestly believe Buzz would be at MU without Crean?

[bilsu]

Anybody have theories on why James did "regress?"  If you watch the high school highlights on YouTube, he has a smooth jump shot, consistent release point, however fades away a little.  He looks better however than now.  At the WV game they showed highlights of his game against Duke in the CBE classic championship.  He was playing with so much confidence, that I think he has also lost.

The last two years he had injuries that hurt his game and his confidence. This year we do not need him to score to win. We needed him to score his freshmen year and Crean turned him loose. Another factor is that it was our first year in the Big East, so teams like Connecticut did not repsect us and got their tail feathers handed to them. They also were not as familiar with Tom Crean's style. Same thing at UW with their swing offense. The Big 10 coaches and players now have seen enough of it, that it is not such a big thing to prepare for and play against. Part of MU's success this year is MU's new style under Buzz. Next year the other teams in the conference will be more ready for it.