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Author Topic: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?  (Read 5730 times)

nycwarrior

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Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« on: October 26, 2008, 02:49:02 PM »
Saw a couple clips but can't seem to access the content now.

Who looked good in the scrimmage? Any of the returners look significantly better? How about the new guys? Butler, Otoule, Fulce?

New Era Warriors

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 03:28:09 PM »
I was there and here are some of the things that come to mind:
-McNeal is NOT afraid to shoot it behind the arc and he actually made a couple of three-pointers. He is more confident with his shot and he won't hesitate to shoot the 3 ball. Other than that, same old McNeal.
-Mathews looked strong and was not afraid to shoot the 3 either. Drove strong to the hoop.
-James was in control the whole night and made a three pointer. Looked solid.
-Cubillan played. I thought he was injured. He made the first 3 he took in the scrimmage.
-O'Tule really impressed me! He was active on the glass and got a couple of offensive rebounds and went back up with it. Made his first two free throws. I can definitely see him playing a lot of minutes this year off the bench for Burke.
-Fulce made a three pointer and is VERY athletic. He will definitely play big minutes this year off the bench
-Butler looked out of place and not very confident. I don't think he will play that much this year.
-Hazel was shaky. He will HAVE to play some minutes this year, but I liked how O'Tule looked more than Hazel.
-Acker controlled the ball fine. He will play the same amount as he did last year.
-Burke was strong. A lot of rebounds. I believe he made both of his free throws. He will definitely start and play big minutes this year if he stays out of foul trouble. Looks like a more confident player and leader.
-last but not least...Lazar Hayward! He looked great! He was making his threes, he made some strong moves and finished in the paint. He made most/all of his free throws. Lazar looked like the best player on the floor last night.

Murffieus

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 03:31:28 PM »
Buzz unveiled a new offense completly different from TC's half court offense. Buzz's is very big man friendly and Hayward looked very good execuing his part off the wide post. DJ's part has been reduced as Buzz'z offense does not necessarily call for a true PG nor encourage the dribble penetration as the TC's attack offense-----DJ had only 4 shots (3 trey attempts) in 26 minutes of scrimmage (and ZERO assists)-------McNeal looked lost---as neither he nor DJ were the recipients of any on the ball picks/screens ala last year and neither showed any penetration to the hoop----the middle is more clogged than last year with a postup going between the ball on the perimeter and the hoop making it more difficult to pursue dribble penetration. Mathews looks more explosive than last year, but he too had trouble attacking the hoop.

I like Buzz's offense------ has some triangle offense concepts about it, but he needs to add some guard friendly stuff to it.

BTW- Otule is going to be a player----has talent and excellent upside. Had one nice postup where he read the defender very well-----rebounded well, but needs to add strength. fulce had a nice 3 pointer, but wasn' t spectacular otherwise although very athletic (great hops)----also needs strength.

Some transition last night ----but didn't seem to be a priority.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 04:20:15 PM by Murffieus »

Big Daddy 84

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 04:49:41 PM »
Top 10 of what I saw last night:

1) Otule much better than I thought. If he can be coached/developed he could be something, but nothing more than a limited role player this year. I was afraid he might be a waste, but I am less concerned.
2) Fulce will be a fan favorite, and a good defensive stopper and rebounder, 4 or 5th offensive option.
3) DJ shot still inconsistent. Release point is more consistenet, but still not square when shooting if moving.
4) Agree WM seemed much stronger.
5) LH was very aggressive, if Fulce had not been guarding him he would of scored more.
6) Burke will be a solid rebounder and defended. FT much more fluid.  Great as MC.
7) Butler seems to be over his head and unless he develops a lot he will be a waste, completely lost on offense and not great on D.
8) It is obvious they have not work on offense much. Defense was above average, offensive sets weak. D's team needed a 3pt to tie at the end of the scrimmage and they never came close to a good shot. Several inbound sets they had to throw past half court to avoid 5 sec count.
9) PH nothing......Not a BE player.
10) TT being a micromanager of everything was apparent last night. The show was a 1 out of 5 at best. There is a huge void in the AD department in regard to marketing and showmanship that is missing with TT gone, because no one else was allowed to make decisions. There are several things I wont miss from TT, but he was a showman and he brought some flair back into the program and I hope we don't lose this. Offcourse winning a bunch of games and making a deep run in the BE and NCAA tourneys adds flair by itself.

nycwarrior

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 08:04:20 PM »
BD, Murf & Shooter - Thanks for the reports. Feel like I was there. The guys have a lot to figure out but they should be a ton of fun to watch this year.

I'm hoping that Fulce gets worked into the rotation early so that by mid-season he feels like a veteran. It'd be nice to have him play a Ron Curry type role for this team. A guy off the bench who comes in with energy and athleticism to grab some boards and make some hustle plays. Hope he gets some chemistry with Mo Acker. It'd be nice to see the second unit keep people running.

If heyward improved half as much this summer as he did last off-season, he's going to be scary.

As for the big 3, hopefully those guys play like they can see the end of their careers just around the corner. Would love to see DJ return to form. Hope that the offense can keep defenders from sagging the way they did against our 25-second weave.

All that said, it seems like getting 8 and 8 from Burke and 4 and 4 from whoever spells him is about all any of us can expect inside.

jce

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 08:18:07 PM »
Is Otule really that good, or is it because there is no other decent big men on the team?

bilsu

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 08:24:40 PM »
The only center that Crean signed that was better as a freshmen was Scott Merritt. Merritt finished at the 4 spot, but was the center his first two years.

MuMark

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 08:29:12 PM »
8 points and 8 rebounds a game from Burke? 4 and 4 from his back up? 12 and 12 from the center spot? Last year we got 8 points and 8 rebounds from Ooze and Burke combined.



I would think it will be more like 4 or 5 points and 6  rebounds for Burke(Ooze averaged 5 and 5 last year). I like Otule's potential but his production is likely to be pretty small in terms of statistics this year. Freshmen bigs tend to make alot of mistakes and get yanked. Hopefully he can play some decent defense and get a few boards.

If Burke goes for 8 and 8 we are going to be a very good team.

Just like last year we will probably see 7-10 minutes a game without either of them on the court maybe even more.

nycwarrior

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 08:52:42 PM »
Fair enough. Ooze is good context. He put up 8 and 7 his junior year and then regressed (at least numerically) senior year.

The dream is Wisconsin where he put up 12 and 9 but the reality is probably more like the 2.5 ppg he pulled down in his 12 minutes a game. I'm hopin he'll be less foul-prone this year and more able to get two buckets a half.

Henry Sugar

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 08:54:44 PM »
Buzz unveiled a new offense completely different from TC's half court offense.

<snip>

I like Buzz's offense------ has some triangle offense concepts about it, but he needs to add some guard friendly stuff to it.

Murff, I stumbled upon a section of the GoMarquette.com website that had a reference to the "Euro Ball Screen Offense".  "This is a continuity offense perfect for a team without a true post player or with just one distinct post player."

http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/playsoct08.html  (Note there's a pdf you can grab from this site)

Based on what you saw from the scrimmage, how much of that seems to align with the Euro Ball Screen Offense ideas?  Is this a glimpse into what the coaching staff might be thinking?
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77ncaachamps

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 09:25:44 PM »
Murff, I stumbled upon a section of the GoMarquette.com website that had a reference to the "Euro Ball Screen Offense".  "This is a continuity offense perfect for a team without a true post player or with just one distinct post player."

http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/playsoct08.html  (Note there's a pdf you can grab from this site)

Based on what you saw from the scrimmage, how much of that seems to align with the Euro Ball Screen Offense ideas?  Is this a glimpse into what the coaching staff might be thinking?

I think you're on to something. BUT...

...your team must be able to shoot the ball well, esp. the big men.
...your team must have a very good 3pt%.
...your team must be unselfish with the ball.
...your team must identify holes in zones as the offense is much more free flowing and adaptive.
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StillWarriors

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 09:41:16 PM »
More observations from the Madness

1) Great excitement beforehand. Line several blocks long a half hour before doors opened.

2) The women's team was a great opening act with their Thriller dance and an up tempo scrimmage. They also got the crowd invoved with their pre-game chant and the student shooting contest. Good stuff.

3) Intros for the men were good. Buzz's low key speech was fine. It's apparent he's just not going to play to a crowd at this point. Doesn't seem to be his nature. He's not necessarily the guy to fire up a crowd at a pep rally type event, but that's fine. He seems genuine and is likeable.

4) The "Pray Intro" and boot camp video seemed like they were probably pretty cool, if only we could see them. Not sure if it was just where we were sitting, the screens or the lighting, but it was terrible. Frustrating, and not surprisingly the crowd reacted very little to what it couldn't see. A shame for whoever put all that work into producing those. Whenever I begin to think MU has made the big time stuff like that reminds me we have a ways to go. Again, maybe it was just where we were sitting but I think Buzz made a comment that they couldn't see anything either. Too bad. Lost the crowd a little at that point.

5) Dunk "fest" instead of a dunk contest was kind of dull. Some great dunks, but it was random and there was no drama or buildup. Fulce and Wes were impressive. Fulce is going to be a highlight reel type player with his jumping ability and length. Hopefully he can bring some of that in the flow of a game. It's still amazing to see Dominic dunk like he does at his size. Easy to take for granted after a while, but wow.

6) The scrimmage was pretty sloppy for the most part, but that's not surprising I guess given that the system is new. I was surprised at the lack of transition given the setting and all the talk about "lengthening games". Burke didn't play great, but he sure is strong and active inside. I thought Otule was ok, and probably more athletic than advertised. However, I didn't see reason to think he'll be anything other than the project he is supposed to be. He missed some inside shots, and seemed to struggle finishing after getting some rebounds. I wonder if expectations just weren't so low that the few little things he did impressed people. Either way, he's going to have to log some minutes this year for his size alone.

7) I thought McMorrow looked very athletic for his size. This year sitting out may be a great chance for him to develop his game without the pressure of having to produce. I have high hopes for him.

8) It seemed the guards last night were more content just to jack 3s than penetrate and dish. Hopefully that was just to put on a show. While the guys are serviceable from 3, clearly their greatest asset is their penetration ability not spot up 3 pt shooting.  I have to believe they'll still look to penetrate and kick when the games count.

9) Very disappointing to see about 1/2 the crowd leave during the scrimmage. I blame that though on the complete failure to do anything to entertain or involve the crowd. Last year's event was too long, but even cheesy stuff like the Simon Says guy added to the entertainment feel of the event and got the crowd involved. Buzz seems low key, so maybe he wanted the event that way. I kind of doubt that's the case though. Either way, whoever is responsible blew it as far as living up to the impressive turnout, excitement and anticipation for the evening. Having half the crowd empty out b/c it's bored during the scrimmage can't be real impressive to prospective recruits. In that sense, the showcase event could actually leave a negative impression. Granted there are far more important factors recruits should be looking at, but nonetheless it was kind of a bad feeling seeing people heading for the exits in droves early. Ouch. I don't think people left because of the scrimmage itself, but rather the failure to generate excitement and suck people in before that. A half time entertainment type thing, the Jesse White Tumblers for example, would've livened things up and kept the energy in the building.

10) Big kudos to Buzz and all the players for hanging around for a long time signing autographs and talking. I brought my 9 and 6 year old boys with me, and the players and Buzz couldn't have been nicer in taking the time to talk to them and sign their shirt and poster. They represent MU well! How great for the program to have the senior leaders we have this year.

11) Great to see and talk to Jim McIlvaine and Tony Smith. They were also very friendly and its great for the program to have them as voices for the school and the team.

MUfan12

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 11:14:00 PM »
"7) Butler seems to be over his head and unless he develops a lot he will be a waste, completely lost on offense and not great on D."

You can tell this from 20 minutes of an intersquad scrimmage?

How anyone can make a statement like that after last night is beyond me. These scrimmages are not going to show us all that much for a few reasons.
1) A new offense they're still picking up, and they still aren't comfortable enough to improvise in it, which I think eventually they will.
2) They're going against the same guys they have since July. That makes it much more difficult.
3) Both sides know what they're running- that makes the cutting and screening that much more important, since they have to really execute well to score against a defense that for the most part knows what's coming.

Need to watch the expectations a bit... at least until they play someone not named Marquette.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 11:17:21 PM by MUfan12 »

Big Daddy 84

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 10:59:22 AM »
MUFAN

I stand by what I said, unless Butler develops and shows more than he has shown (and I have seen him more than once) he will be a waste. Tell us what you saw on Saturday that was impressive, I would love to hear it.

He may develop, but right now he and PH will only play when the game is not on the line.  If you saw something else let us know.

Do agree on my comments on PH?

BD


MUfan12

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 11:09:44 AM »
I never said I disagreed about how he and Hazel looked at Madness, but to call a player a waste after a scrimmage is extremely unfair.

Butler has a lot of potential that will need development, no doubt. I like his size and athleticism, and anyone who is capable of putting up the numbers he did at JUCO has to have some ability. You also have to remember he is making a huge transition as well.

Hazel will have to play some minutes, out of neccessity. I saw some flashes of ability from him last year, and I do think he has a good understanding of the game. The game has to slow down a bit for him though.

As I outlined in my post, these scrimmages are not a good place to evaluate talent, or make harsh statements about OUR OWN players.

Big Daddy 84

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Re: Anyone who was there have thoughts on how the team looked?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 02:01:39 PM »
MUFAN,

Then we are in agreement. As I said unless JB develops he won't play and if he does not play..well I don't need to repeat. I checked my notes from Friday and I had 5 on JB and 4 were direct negatives (2 on rebounding, 2 on defense, the other was a generic one about spacing on offense).

My point is I had no direct positive notes attributed to JB.  I hope he develops, I hope he improves immensely. But the question of the post is what did you see. I don't think you and I saw anything different, maybe I our semantics are different, but our vision is the same.

We have seen other JC transfer with incredible athletic ability/size come here and not offer much because High level D1 players need more than just ability, they need a high BB IQ and desire.  We all agree that you can't teach athletic ability or height and you can teach technique, but instincts and desire are not teachable.

Also one other note I missed, CO was ok with not bringing the ball down on his offensive rebounds. They came down a little but he kept them up for the most part which directly lead to him being fouled and his 2 FTs. It is one on the keys I look at for big men. If they need to bring the ball down in order to gather themselves before the go back up it is a hard habit to break and/or they do have the athletic ability to go right back up (see Shawn Bradley, watch a video and you will see why at even his height he got blocked a lot) .