Minneapolis Church Shooting 2 children killed.

[tower912]

...but there are some here who mock our faith as an opinion, not a rational belief,

Yes.  And there always has been.  It is called faith for a reason.  Faith and skepticism have been around for as long as man has searched for more.

[Scoop Snoop]

Yes.  And there always has been.  It is called faith for a reason.  Faith and skepticism have been around for as long as man has searched for more.

Nailed it. MU 69's inclusion of the adjective "rational" is what is problematic. What is known rationally by humans, what is scientifically provable, is not necessarily the limit of human knowledge. There is the possibility of a spiritual realm that exists beyond the confines of what we accept as rational and provable. This is where faith comes in. Tying it into rationalism is a mistake. And I think it is also a mistake to declare any beliefs beyond our ability to rationalize them is also a mistake.  

[Uncle Rico]

...but there are some here who mock our faith as an opinion, not a rational belief, that Paul and Jesus are not real and based in fact.

It isn't fact. 

[muwarrior69]

Jesus and Paul were historical people. Believing in them and what they said / did is rational. Believing that the person Jesus was dead, and then rose from the dead three days later, is irrational.

Not saying it is false. Just that it is unprecedented and against the "rules" of human biology.

The apostle Thomas would whole heartedly agree with you until he saw and experienced the risen Christ. For him it would be irrational to deny his experience.

[The Sultan]

The apostle Thomas would whole heartedly agree with you until he saw and experienced the risen Christ. For him it would be irrational to deny his experience.

You are hearing a story, originally spread verbally, about his experience. Not to mention that certain written accounts were selected for inclusion in the "testament," while others were ignored.

[tower912]

o

The apostle Thomas would whole heartedly agree with you until he saw and experienced the risen Christ. For him it would be irrational to deny his experience.

(Sigh) And I say this as a believer, use the Google function sometimes to learn how many religions featured virgin birth and resurrection.

You and I can use Thomas as an example and take to heart Jesus' words that follow.  Others read it and think 'cool story, bro.  Written 50 years after the fact through third hand sources.'  Or, die infidel.  Or point out that Muhammad and Buddha were historical figures.

We choose to have the faith we do.  You and I are both Catholic and yet disagree on many things.

[muwarrior69]

Yes.  And there always has been.  It is called faith for a reason.  Faith and skepticism have been around for as long as man has searched for more.

...but why mock it during their time of greif?

[The Sultan]

...bit why mock it?

People mock all sorts of things. Why let it bother you?

[Uncle Rico]

...bit why mock it during their time of greif?

Because religion has been inserted into governance and used as reason to "not talk about this issue".  Because the ones inserting it into governance are the biggest hypocrites of the lot, following the lead of a serial adulterer, liar and thief. 

[tower912]

...bit why mock it during their time of greif?

'But' why mock it during their time of 'grief'.  But I digress.  Does it fundamentally change your faith?  Is your faith not strong enough to handle mocking?  Do you yourself not mock 'woke?  My interpretation of scripture is pretty woke.

[tower912]

Why do you mock how they process this latest insane, preventable tragedy?

[Scoop Snoop]

mu69-I already posted as to why I think there was mocking. Did you read it? Ignore it? Do not understand it? Your thoughts? You seem to prefer posting the same question repeatedly, hoping that someone will agree with you or give you the reply you want.

My wife lost a son about two years before she and I met. I make no claim whatsoever to understanding your grief, but I have seen the grief of the loss of a child close up.

I think the mayor's words shortly after the shooting were very foolish, even though well meant. He unintentionally insulted the members of the parish by airily dismissing prayers and also set up an easy diversion for the 2nd amendment people who made it all about what they claimed was his mocking prayer rather than having to trot out their usual defense of guns after a school shooting. My guess is that most of the outrage was by evangelicals who believe that the guy in DC was sent by God. I seriously doubt that they ever pray for divine guidance regarding restrictions on guns after a school shooting, so the mayor played right into their hands. Hence the mocking that followed. 

[The Sultan]

...but why mock it during their time of greif?

Look, you gotta toughen up a little. When Jesus said "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me," did you think it was going to be easy? You know what Jesus went through when he took up his cross right?

The people you should be mad at aren't the Scoopers who you believe are mocking your religion. Your anger should be directed at those who mock your religion as an excuse for decidedly un-Christian action (or inaction.)

IMO the problem isn't Christianty. It's that throughout history, the powerful have hijacked Christianity to advance their own power. Speaking up against the powerful isn't easy.

[tower912]

Do you agree with Pope Leo calling for an end of this pandemic of arms?

And I will say again, as I did earlier in this thread, that America is ignoring the biblical admonition to have no gods before Yahweh.  A significant subset have made guns their god and gun culture their religion.

[tower912]

I am glad you brought all of this up. And it is your right to be offended and insulted if you wish.  I applaud it and encourage it.   I was offended when a group gained some notoriety by mocking something I hold dear.  They claimed that the problem with America is too much empathy and that too much empathy is sinful.  I fundamentally disagree with that and think Jesus would, too.

[Jay Bee]

More accurate words have never been typed.

Not sure about that. "Dayton sucks" is up there at the top of the list too.