FG Shooting: McNeal 3-15, Barro 1-9

[MarquetteFan94]

ouch.

[77ncaachamps]

ouch.

I was looking back on Yahoo's play-by-play. Granted a "two-point layup" doesn't tell you if it was a heavily contested shot or an open look.

But Barro is NOT a low post scorer. He has ZERO...ZILTCH....moves in the block. He scored well the last game because he was going to the hole. Harangody's bulk might have proved another point: Barro CANNOT bang.

As for McNeal? He's in one of his worst shooting seasons ever. He usually draws fouls and gets a bulk of his points on the line, but that's not happening this year.

[nyg]

No more discussion of McNeal going to NBA.  Great defender, hustle, attitude, but no shot, forces driving throwups and at times when he is dribbling, the ball justs leaves his hands.  Just leaves.  Strange

[Boognish_MU]

I tried counting the missed 2 point layups in the play by play for Marquette and I think there was 12 or so.  I cannot believe Ooze cannot put in more of those types of bunnies.  Crean needs to give McNeal a yellow light instead of a non stop green light.  He shouldn't be shooting any 3s and he should try to develop a jumper.  

I mean have you seen anyone on this team make a 15 ft jumper every game?  I haven't outside of Tommy Brice in warm ups

[CTWarrior]

Barro played a tremendous game on defense.  He really handled Harangody much better than in Milwaukee.  We weren't doubling as much this time either, but we still maanged to leave some three point shooters open.

He was just awful on offense, though.  He has got to convert those lay ins.  The missed layups, by everybody but particularly Barro, were the main reason we lost this one.

[jtate15]

I tried counting the missed 2 point layups in the play by play for Marquette and I think there was 12 or so.  I cannot believe Ooze cannot put in more of those types of bunnies.  Crean needs to give McNeal a yellow light instead of a non stop green light.  He shouldn't be shooting any 3s and he should try to develop a jumper.  

I mean have you seen anyone on this team make a 15 ft jumper every game?  I haven't outside of Tommy Brice in warm ups

Good observation. If it not a lay-up or a three, we usually won't take it. Wes and McNeal have both shown thay can make the mid range shot. I don't understand why they don't take it when it's given.

[77ncaachamps]

I tried counting the missed 2 point layups in the play by play for Marquette and I think there was 12 or so.  I cannot believe Ooze cannot put in more of those types of bunnies.  Crean needs to give McNeal a yellow light instead of a non stop green light.  He shouldn't be shooting any 3s and he should try to develop a jumper. 

I mean have you seen anyone on this team make a 15 ft jumper every game?  I haven't outside of Tommy Brice in warm ups

Good observation. If it not a lay-up or a three, we usually won't take it. Wes and McNeal have both shown thay can make the mid range shot. I don't understand why they don't take it when it's given.

I don't mind them passing up the mid-range if they're driving and drawing contact.

Don't forget Lazar also hits the mid-range.

[AlumKCof93]

If we are going to call out Barro, why doesn't anyone do the same with McNeal?  I don't understand why he plays as much as he does these days.  Granted, he is a good defensive player, but there is no way Jerel McNeal should get 15 shots/game. He is bad decision maker on the offensive side, terrible 3-pt shooter which doesn't deter him from taking shots and a turnover waiting to happen.  I think we win yesterday if McNeal plays half as much as he did.  He's had a terrible season and its about time Crean makes necessary adjustments instead of acting as though McNeal is entitled to 30+/ game regardless of his performance.

[Marquette84]

If we are going to call out Barro, why doesn't anyone do the same with McNeal?  I don't understand why he plays as much as he does these days.  Granted, he is a good defensive player, but there is no way Jerel McNeal should get 15 shots/game. He is bad decision maker on the offensive side, terrible 3-pt shooter which doesn't deter him from taking shots and a turnover waiting to happen.  I think we win yesterday if McNeal plays half as much as he did.  He's had a terrible season and its about time Crean makes necessary adjustments instead of acting as though McNeal is entitled to 30+/ game regardless of his performance.

It would probably help to complain about aspects of McNeals game when he deserves it.

Turnover wating to happen?  He only had 2 vs. Notre Dame yesterday.

Terrible 3 point shooter?  3 of 5 is 40%.  That's pretty good.

[bma725]

If we are going to call out Barro, why doesn't anyone do the same with McNeal?  I don't understand why he plays as much as he does these days.  Granted, he is a good defensive player, but there is no way Jerel McNeal should get 15 shots/game. He is bad decision maker on the offensive side, terrible 3-pt shooter which doesn't deter him from taking shots and a turnover waiting to happen.  I think we win yesterday if McNeal plays half as much as he did.  He's had a terrible season and its about time Crean makes necessary adjustments instead of acting as though McNeal is entitled to 30+/ game regardless of his performance.

It would probably help to complain about aspects of McNeals game when he deserves it.

Turnover wating to happen?  He only had 2 vs. Notre Dame yesterday.

Terrible 3 point shooter?  3 of 5 is 40%.  That's pretty good.

One game does not make him a good 3point shooter.  Even with the 2 of 5 yesterday, he's still shooting 21% on 3 pointers in the conference season, and since the first Notre Dame game which was his last good game IMO he's shooting 19% on 3 pointers.  Going into yesterday's game he was at a whopping 17% for the conference season and 12% for the last 6.  He should not be taking 3 pointers unless he has the ball when the shot clock is about to expire. 

[NavinRJohnson]

It would probably help to complain about aspects of McNeals game when he deserves it.

Turnover wating to happen?  He only had 2 vs. Notre Dame yesterday.

Terrible 3 point shooter?  3 of 5 is 40%.  That's pretty good.

The post was about McNeal's play in general, and his impact yesterday. He was bad yesterday, there's just no way around that. Your points have little or nothing to do with what the poster was saying. 3 of 15 is 20%. That's very bad. 40% 3pt shooting in one game is all fine and good. Unfortunately, he is shooting 21% in Big East play, and 25% all season - worst on the team. Yet, he has the third most attempts. He leads the team in turnovers by a wide margin of almost 1 per game.

He obviously has his strengths and weaknesses, like anybody else, but the fact is, for the past month or so, he hasn't been bringing much to the party. Is he doing more harm than good? Tough to say, but it is difficult to conclude that he has been helping the team win. That said, I guess I will trust coach Crean that the alternative is not better.

[IAmMarquette]

That said, I guess I will trust coach Crean that the alternative is not better.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Navin. If Jerel's minutes are reduced, who picks them up?

-Acker is a serviceable backup PG, but doesn't create enough offensively or defend nearly as well as Jerel.
-Fitz, though he played all right against ND, doesn't merit much more PT than he currently gets, unless he starts knocking down 3s at or just under 40%, and shoots more than 2 to 3 per game.
-Cubillan also played well against ND, and for as good an on-ball defender as he is, he's not nearly as disruptive on that end as Jerel.
-SC isn't a viable option at this point. No offense to him.

I think Wes and Jerel should swap offensive roles. Jerel has shown that he can be an effective distributor, especially when he's creating havoc/TOs on the defensive end. I'd much rather see Wes shooting 10-12 times per game, whereas Jerel should be looking to distribute first, second, and third, and then think about shooting.

I don't think, at this point, in terms of minutes played there's anyone that would be an obvious upgrade over Jerel, not including a more efficient Jerel. I'm not claiming to know where each guy sits on the offensive option hierarchy, but at this point Jerel needs to move down and Wes needs to move up, and Crean needs to make a point of that.

[Boognish_MU]

I'm not claiming to know where each guy sits on the offensive option hierarchy...

Well I am.  I think that our offensive option hierarchy should go something like this:
1. James (Driving and creating for himself/ others)
2. Lazar (in the lane or even on the perimeter)
3. Wes (Cutting the lane or shooting from the elbow, kick outs for 3)
4. Jerel
5. Barro (Bunny king)


thoughts?

[AlumKCof93]

I'm not claiming to know where each guy sits on the offensive option hierarchy...

Well I am.  I think that our offensive option hierarchy should go something like this:
1. James (Driving and creating for himself/ others)
2. Lazar (in the lane or even on the perimeter)
3. Wes (Cutting the lane or shooting from the elbow, kick outs for 3)
4. Jerel
5. Barro (Bunny king)

Bingo! I agree that Wes should play more of an offensive role than McNeal.  McNeal is simply too aggressive for a player who is not playing well.  He forces things which too often leads to turnovers or bad shots.
I'd much rather have the ball in our two best offensive options - DJ or Lazar. Then give it to Wes who needs to be more selfish.  Wes plays within the offense well, while Jerel plays undisciplined ball where he drives by his guy b/c he can but then he jumps and then gets stuck in the air and makes a bad pass or ill-advised shot.  The offense should be based around DJ and Lazar with Wes as the 3rd option.  Jerel is the 4th option and should be taken out whenever he shoots a 3 within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.


thoughts?

[Pardner]

Good call out on Jerel.  He was 1-10 inside the arc on many drives where he appeared out of control--not technically a TO, but essentially one.  That early shot at the end of the first half half was a killer. 

He led the team with 36 minutes yersterday.  We get our energy from JM.  However, Wes has to get more of his shots, especially the threes where has a good %.   I think Wes played his best ball with JM out last year.  But, Wes has to step up too.  I like the idea of switching roles on occasion. 

Another thing I noticed about JM is where and how he delivers the ball.  Our Bigs have no hands, JM should try a bounce pass to them.  When he drives in the lane he is creating on the fly.  Our Bigs don't know if he is going to pass to them at the last second or if they should position for the rebound (again, this is on our Bigs as well, but JM has to play within his team).  Watch for that next game--see how many rebounds off a JM miss we get.     

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Pardner -- It's fairly widely accepted that that bounce passes to big men should be avoided...especially when they have questionable hands.

[Pardner]

Pardner -- It's fairly widely accepted that that bounce passes to big men should be avoided...especially when they have questionable hands.

That is funny...Al used to stress the bounce pass on a break to the Bigs vs. a zip pass bouncing off their "questionable hands".  Puts them in a position to grab and go up in one motion on a lay-up.  Otherwise, put it on the rim for the dunk or easy lay in.  Whipping it mid body like to Trend or the many times to Ooze doesn't put them in the position to successfully finish as we saw many times yesterday.  Even if they catch it, our Bigs then want to take a dribble and then we have trouble.

[Marquette84]

The post was about McNeal's play in general, and his impact yesterday. He was bad yesterday, there's just no way around that. Your points have little or nothing to do with what the poster was saying. 3 of 15 is 20%. That's very bad. 40% 3pt shooting in one game is all fine and good. Unfortunately, he is shooting 21% in Big East play, and 25% all season - worst on the team. Yet, he has the third most attempts. He leads the team in turnovers by a wide margin of almost 1 per game.

The topic was about yesterday's game.  McNeal may have had problems yesterday, but turnovers and 3 point shooting weren't among them.

All season people have been complaining about his turnovers and 3 point shooting.  On a day when he was strong in those two areas, I don't get why there is a renewed need for complain.

In fact if we look at the last three games, McNeal has had just three turnovers total--2 vs. ND, one vs. UL and none against Cincy.  I guess there is no pleasing some people--they have so much emotional attachment to their negativity that they are unable to give credit for improvement. 

[Henry Sugar]

For the season, McNeal is shooting a worse percentage from three, but he is also doing better overall on his turnovers. 

However, McNeal is having a terrible conference season.  His overall impact to the team has been negative.

[mviale]

I agree Mcneal is a horrible shooter, but he really is a presence on defense. Same with ooze.  Crean just needs to them to pass or only take high percentage shots.

Barro is usually in the category - just had a bad night, but without his presence, it would not even be close.

[chapman]

I mean have you seen anyone on this team make a 15 ft jumper every game?  I haven't outside of Tommy Brice in warm ups

That's a really frustrating thing with McNeal.  He used to be able to nail that shot from around the free throw line or a little deeper at least a couple times a game. 

[mviale]

You have got to be kidding - Mcneal has always been a terrible shot

[chapman]

It always looked ill-advised and was usually before the offense could even be started, but yes, he used to be able to nail that one shot.  A quick pull-up j from around the free throw line.  I haven't seen it at all since the first part of this season.