Realistic Expectations

[fjm]

Realistic expectations?

1) Make NCAA's (almost) annually.
2) Mix in 2nd weekend every few years.
3) Mix in better than that every long while.
4) Top 5 league finish often.
5) Compete for league title every few years.
6) Better conference tourney results.
7) Competitive, successful results v rivals, big games.
8) Limit off court issues/problems...be good citizens, graduate players.

This guy Gets it. .

[WhiteTrash]

Dude. Guy Fieri looks stupid as hell. No offense.

Lol! Maybe  but his net worth makes both of us look even stupider.

[jesmu84]

If I were to make a college football analogy...

Seems MU is taking a similar path to success as ND football. Holding the program to higher academic and conduct standards. Limits the recruiting pool and by correlation, the chances at success, as you won't allow some of the recruits a chance to make it to campus. ND wants to avoid the scandal that plague programs like Baylor.

So, I think you can run a clean program and have success. Just that your chances at "elite" success will be limited.

[skianth16]

Realistic expectations?

1) Make NCAA's (almost) annually.
2) Mix in 2nd weekend every few years.
3) Mix in better than that every long while.
4) Top 5 league finish often.
5) Compete for league title every few years.
6) Better conference tourney results.
7) Competitive, successful results v rivals, big games.
8) Limit off court issues/problems...be good citizens, graduate players.

I don't know that I care as much about players graduating as some. Our program wasn't tarnished by Wade leaving before he graduated. If we bring in guys that go pro, in the NBA or anywhere else, without graduating, I just don't see how that matters. It might be a nice PR plug, but is it really an important metric?

Personally, I'm much more concerned with the university's regular graduation rate being under 80%. Even worse, only about 60% of students have earned a degree in 4 years. Those are the numbers the administration should care about. Those are the numbers that actually dictate a school's quality and prestige. At least, that's how this alum feels.

[StillWarriors]

I don't wanna hear crap about Sacar being an elite defender.  Wojo didn't even consider going man right from the start.  If Sacar was elite he would have given him the opportunity from the get go.  Listen, JA would have made a lot of people look silly, but not giving out "best" defender an opportunity to lock down out of the gates says a lot.

Trying to double with Joey was pointless-he didn't have a chance and ended up out of position repeatedly. Head scratcher for sure.

[WhiteTrash]

If I were to make a college football analogy...

Seems MU is taking a similar path to success as ND football. Holding the program to higher academic and conduct standards. Limits the recruiting pool and by correlation, the chances at success, as you won't allow some of the recruits a chance to make it to campus. ND wants to avoid the scandal that plague programs like Baylor.

So, I think you can run a clean program and have success. Just that your chances at "elite" success will be limited.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

You're first paragraph sounds like Badger apologist. MU nor UW have some unique acceptance requirements. We compete for great players with lower quality schools and loose frequently. Offers are made and money spent because they are MU quality. Kids like schools for different reasons. mostly the coach and facilities I believe.

As for Baylor,  they are in a whole new class of dirty. Paying recruits is very bad but putting young women in harm's way and then running them out the University is horrific.

[jesmu84]

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

You're first paragraph sounds like Badger apologist. MU nor UW have some unique acceptance requirements. We compete for great players with lower quality schools and loose frequently. Offers are made and money spent because they are MU quality. Kids like schools for different reasons. mostly the coach and facilities I believe.

As for Baylor,  they are in a whole new class of dirty. Paying recruits is very bad but putting young women in harm's way and then running them out the University is horrific.

Why? You don't think MU adminstration changed who they would accept as student-athletes after Buzz? The pool of candidates is smaller now.

Correct on Baylor. But you could throw in nearly any "dirty" school or coach and ND or MU don't want to be near that category.

[Silent Verbal]

Why? You don't think MU adminstration changed who they would accept as student-athletes after Buzz? The pool of candidates is smaller now.

Correct on Baylor. But you could throw in nearly any "dirty" school or coach and ND or MU don't want to be near that category.

They didn't change who they'd accept, they simply hired a guy they knew wouldn't take risks on those types of players.  Zero drama with Wojo, but also zero postseason success.  As long as he keeps filling the seats, his job is probably safe.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Realistic expectations?

1) Make NCAA's (almost) annually.
2) Mix in 2nd weekend every few years.
3) Mix in better than that every long while.
4) Top 5 league finish often.
5) Compete for league title every few years.
6) Better conference tourney results.
7) Competitive, successful results v rivals, big games.
8) Limit off court issues/problems...be good citizens, graduate players.

Agreed with all eight. Wojo was given time to build the program back. These are now the expectations moving forward.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know that I care as much about players graduating as some. Our program wasn't tarnished by Wade leaving before he graduated. If we bring in guys that go pro, in the NBA or anywhere else, without graduating, I just don't see how that matters. It might be a nice PR plug, but is it really an important metric?

Personally, I'm much more concerned with the university's regular graduation rate being under 80%. Even worse, only about 60% of students have earned a degree in 4 years. Those are the numbers the administration should care about. Those are the numbers that actually dictate a school's quality and prestige. At least, that's how this alum feels.

On the first paragraph, I don't think anyone here or in the administration thinks a player leaving to go pro before graduating is a bad thing. I think they are more worried about them not graduating and not going pro.

On the second paragraph, I would use the six year gradation rate over the four year. More and more students every year are taking 5th and 6th years intentionally.

[Jon]

I will be the first to say that I am extremely disappointed in the performance today.  That said, I am also very proud of players that represent Marquette University currently.  By all accounts they go about things the right way on and off the court.  The discussions here about Wojo, Buzz, Wardle etc...got me thinking.  I feel Wojo is doing exactly what the BOT wants, with the cleanliness of the basketball program.  I believe in that aspect, it is a breath of fresh air from the Buzz era.  However, on the court there seems to be a general lack of toughness, athleticism and junkyard dog attitude, that we became accustom to during Buzz's tenure. 

Is it possible in this day and age of college basketball to have both a clean program and a program full of players with those traits of a Buzz team (athleticism, switchables, toughness)?  A few programs come to mind, most notably Villanova, but there really aren't many of them.  This has me wondering if as a fan I need to make the decision if I want the program to win at all cost and deal with the drama off the court or have a squeaky clean program that doesn't win as much as I'd like.

My question to the board, is it possible for Marquette, in its current situation in the Big East, to find that balance of the Buzz era and the Wojo era?

There is no question who my college team is: Marquette.

But to answer your question, yes, a school can field a team of highly skilled, athletic players who perform in the classroom, on the court, and in the world.

After a fifth crushingly disappointing end to a Wojo-coached season I turned my Dance attention to another alma mater.

Watching a John Beilein team play is a thing of beauty: skilled, drilled, athletic, and disciplined. These are high major student athletes who behave, study, and perform.

Beilein teams win with class, dignity, and consistency. Comparing John Beilein with Wojo makes clear just how far we are from making a Final Four an expectation rather than an unrealistic dream.

Sadly, it is once again the Maize and Blue rather than the Blue and Gold.

[Aughnanure]

If I were to make a college football analogy...

Seems MU is taking a similar path to success as ND football. Holding the program to higher academic and conduct standards. Limits the recruiting pool and by correlation, the chances at success, as you won't allow some of the recruits a chance to make it to campus. ND wants to avoid the scandal that plague programs like Baylor.

So, I think you can run a clean program and have success. Just that your chances at "elite" success will be limited.

Are we really trying to convince ourselves of this BS excuse?

[Billy Hoyle]

There is no question who my college team is: Marquette.

But to answer your question, yes, a school can field a team of highly skilled, athletic players who perform in the classroom, on the court, and in the world.

After a fifth crushingly disappointing end to a Wojo-coached season I turned my Dance attention to another alma mater.

Watching a John Beilein team play is a thing of beauty: skilled, drilled, athletic, and disciplined. These are high major student athletes who behave, study, and perform.

Beilein teams win with class, dignity, and consistency. Comparing John Beilein with Wojo makes clear just how far we are from making a Final Four an expectation rather than an unrealistic dream.

Sadly, it is once again the Maize and Blue rather than the Blue and Gold.

Whether you like it or not you can't compare the two. Kids get seduced by the big school, football, joke majors for athletes (School of Sports Management), academic standards of "qualify and you're in," not even needing to go to class, the Big Ten. We're rarely going to outrecruit that. But I certainly don't want a return to the lawless atmosphere or the Buzz era.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is no question who my college team is: Marquette.

But to answer your question, yes, a school can field a team of highly skilled, athletic players who perform in the classroom, on the court, and in the world.

After a fifth crushingly disappointing end to a Wojo-coached season I turned my Dance attention to another alma mater.

Watching a John Beilein team play is a thing of beauty: skilled, drilled, athletic, and disciplined. These are high major student athletes who behave, study, and perform.

Beilein teams win with class, dignity, and consistency. Comparing John Beilein with Wojo makes clear just how far we are from making a Final Four an expectation rather than an unrealistic dream.

Sadly, it is once again the Maize and Blue rather than the Blue and Gold.

Remind me, didn't it take Beilein 6 years at Michigan to get past the first weekend? Even though he had 25 years of head coaching experience under his belt (15 years at the D1 level)? Didn't his 5th year team have an embarrassing early exit from the tourney? I think they lost to the 13 seed IIRC.

Good thing Michigan stuck it out.

[Lennys Tap]

Whether you like it or not you can't compare the two. Kids get seduced by the big school, football, joke majors for athletes (School of Sports Management), academic standards of "qualify and you're in," not even needing to go to class, the Big Ten. We're rarely going to outrecruit that. But I certainly don't want a return to the lawless atmosphere or the Buzz era.

Give it a rest, Chico.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Give it a rest, Chico.

Billy isn't Chico. Have you seen his political posts?

[Johnny B]

Realistic expectations?

1) Make NCAA's (almost) annually.
2) Mix in 2nd weekend every few years.
3) Mix in better than that every long while.
4) Top 5 league finish often.
5) Compete for league title every few years.
6) Better conference tourney results.
7) Competitive, successful results v rivals, big games.
8) Limit off court issues/problems...be good citizens, graduate players.

Same. Very reasonable. Seems some expect less which is ok. Have any expectation you want. But I agree with you
.I would also add consistent top 20 team mostly.

[Jon]

Whether you like it or not you can't compare the two. Kids get seduced by the big school, football, joke majors for athletes (School of Sports Management), academic standards of "qualify and you're in," not even needing to go to class, the Big Ten. We're rarely going to outrecruit that. But I certainly don't want a return to the lawless atmosphere or the Buzz era.

Michigan is an exceptional academic institution that doesn't mimeograph diplomas.

[Shooter McGavin]

Do they have more options for athletes due to the size of the University alone?  More course options?  I know MU as a small liberal arts college and Schools like ND do not based on size alone.  There is nowhere to hide. 

[Jon]

Remind me, didn't it take Beilein 6 years at Michigan to get past the first weekend? Even though he had 25 years of head coaching experience under his belt (15 years at the D1 level)? Didn't his 5th year team have an embarrassing early exit from the tourney? I think they lost to the 13 seed IIRC.

Good thing Michigan stuck it out.

Please.

After taking over from Amaker Beilein won a Big Ten Title in Year 5. And in Year 6 he took Michigan to the National Championship game.

Comparing Beilein's Year 5 Big Ten to this season's Big East is laughable. The top 7 schools in that Big Ten would have wiped the floor with this season's Nova and Marquette.

But I'll take your obtuse bait - Yea, Michigan gave Beilein a sixth season and he went to the Final Two. Something he did again last year. And has a high probability of doing yet again this season.

So, by your logic, Wojo should go to the National Championship game next season. If Wojo does that I will be thrilled. But let's be honest - there is a higher probability we don't make The Dance next year under Wojo than there is we make it to the Last Night.

Since you are so certain I have a Thousand Dollars that says we don't get to The Last Night next year under Wojo. Bet?

[Jon]

Do they have more options for athletes due to the size of the University alone?  More course options?  I know MU as a small liberal arts college and Schools like ND do not based on size alone.  There is nowhere to hide.

UH..."Communication" Majors

[Billy Hoyle]

Michigan is an exceptional academic institution that doesn't mimeograph diplomas.

You mean other than General Studies or the School of Keneisology with Sports Management, which is almost all athletes? They have majors athletes are forced into (Harbaugh said so), MU does not. When I was at MU the hoops players were business majors because it had no foreign language requirement. They still had to take Theology and Philosophy.

[Cheeks]

Billy isn't Chico. Have you seen his political posts?

Shhh, Lenny is so smart he knows all.  Plus it just cracks me up he still believes it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Please.

After taking over from Amaker Beilein won a Big Ten Title in Year 5. And in Year 6 he took Michigan to the National Championship game.

Comparing Beilein's Year 5 Big Ten to this season's Big East is laughable. The top 7 schools in that Big Ten would have wiped the floor with this season's Nova and Marquette.

But I'll take your obtuse bait - Yea, Michigan gave Beilein a sixth season and he went to the Final Two. Something he did again last year. And has a high probability of doing yet again this season.

So, by your logic, Wojo should go to the National Championship game next season. If Wojo does that I will be thrilled. But let's be honest - there is a higher probability we don't make The Dance next year under Wojo than there is we make it to the Last Night.

Since you are so certain I have a Thousand Dollars that says we don't get to The Last Night next year under Wojo. Bet?

So,  yes it did take Beilein 6 years to get out of the first weekend and he did have an embarrassing loss in the first round to a 13 seed in his fifth year. That's what I thought I remembered

[GoldenEagle323]

Markus should look at Ja Morant to see what a real NBA prospect looks like